Belief in God hinges on the reality and morality of hell.

[cosmictraveler]

i was referring to law and our state of existence. you can see much of that. enough to know that morality is irrelevant

Morality isn't irrelevant to many of us, including myself, for we see the truth as to where we are and what becomes of us after we pass on. What I do while I'm here makes a difference to me and those I am with, whether good or bad it does make an impact.

 

[Lori_7]

Morality isn't irrelevant to many of us, including myself, for we see the truth as to where we are and what becomes of us after we pass on. What I do while I'm here makes a difference to me and those I am with, whether good or bad it does make an impact.

morality isn't good enough for me. it's not working. it's never worked, in the entire history of mankind. it's not the answer. it may be a way to find the answer, but not necessarily; it's relative! i do not wish to be subject to mankind's morality anymore.

 

[Lori_7]

Useless rhetoric.

Regards
DL

you're quite accomplished at staying uninformed.

 

[Greatest I am]

So you do believe that existence has more to offer than eating, sleeping, sex and fighting?
Could you share with us what that is?

For this world.
How about learning and loving.

For what we call the next, I believe, thanks to my apotheosis, that our next evolutionary step is to a cosmic consciousness.

I have no proof for the latter but can testify to the former and proof would be in the words of yourself and others.

Regards
DL

 

[Lori_7]

For this world.
How about learning and loving.

For what we call the next, I believe, thanks to my apotheosis, that our next evolutionary step is to a cosmic consciousness.

I have no proof for the latter but can testify to the former and proof would be in the words of yourself and others.

Regards
DL

are you fucking with me right now? what do you think communion is?

have you considered the logistics of this transition at all?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OkLxBT_KxCk

lyrics...

Now! Peel the skin back from the flesh.
Steal the flesh back from the starving static minds.
From nature we must stray, to clarity we'll climb.
Deadly impulse seems so natural,
just look beyond it and we'll find
a brand new evolution.
Here begins a brand new line.
And in the distance there's a gathering,
that no longer seems so far away.
Pushed to our knees so let us pray,
and all together we'll bring the real rain.
Watch all that's wasted wash away,
so let it come. Our will be done.
Stature retrieved, regain our form.
Break free from instinct that's left us all confined.
From nature we must stray to clarity we'll climb.
Tradition ingrained, now impermissible.
Now comes a call for all to find
a brand new evolution.
Here begins a brand new line.
I can't help but fear,
look to my species and tremble,
to think that God is just...
And in the distance there's a gathering
that no longer seems so far away.

 

[wynn]

For this world.
How about learning and loving.

Learning and loving what? And to what purpose?

 

[lightgigantic]

At least I know what and who I belive in, myself, rather than something that isn't real and only some type of delusion that many seem to have.

ahhh buts that's precisely the problem - according to such an outlook, the self is a delusion

 

[lightgigantic]

With the proper daily dosage of Prozac and the like, such needs are irrelevant.

I guess that makes it the rising tide that lifts all boats

 

[Greatest I am]

are you fucking with me right now? what do you think communion is?

have you considered the logistics of this transition at all?

.

Communion is a church custom based on barbaric sacrifice and shedding of responsibility and gaining of unrequired forgiveness from an imaginary God. A renewing that is supposed to happen yearly. Not daily or weekly the way it is done today.

As to logistics, the transition or apotheosis is quite simple. Just open your mind and seek. If you have a good paradigm, you will find.

As I recall from our talks, you have much work to do.

Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

Learning and loving what? And to what purpose?

3 guesses. What drives all evolving creatures?

Regards
DL

 

[John99]

3 guesses. What drives all evolving creatures?

Regards
DL

:facepalm:

 

[Lori_7]

Communion is a church custom based on barbaric sacrifice and shedding of responsibility and gaining of unrequired forgiveness from an imaginary God. A renewing that is supposed to happen yearly. Not daily or weekly the way it is done today.

As to logistics, the transition or apotheosis is quite simple. Just open your mind and seek. If you have a good paradigm, you will find.

As I recall from our talks, you have much work to do.

Regards
DL

you are so full of shit.

first of all, your name is a lie. "greatest i am"? nope. that's a lie. that's the first impression you make.

secondly, paradigms by definition, are not based in truth, and inhibit learning.

and thirdly, communion is a oneness with god and each other that is attained via the perfection of our flesh, and results in an existence of absolute love, trust, and commitment, which allows us all to experience complete freedom, peace, and joy.

your name should be "failure i am".

 

[Lori_7]

:facepalm:

who's that lady? she's got a cute hairdo. hahaha.

facepalm is my favorite emoticon, and i don't use it because it's fucked up.

oh, the lady disappeared. look at how cute the little facepalm guy is. aw...so cute.

 

[John99]

Just some good natured fun.

 

[wynn]

3 guesses. What drives all evolving creatures?

I don't know, but most seem to be driven by eating, sleeping, sex and defending (and all the activities that enable this).

 

[Greatest I am]

I don't know, but most seem to be driven by eating, sleeping, sex and defending (and all the activities that enable this).

Yes. All that is required for survival and reproduction.

Once these are taken care of, man has somehow decided that part of survival should entail a greater awareness of our environment and we spend a lot of time learning.

Regards
DL

 

[Lori_7]

Just some good natured fun.

the facepalm guy is fixed. there's nothing flashing in the background now. see? god listens to me. i complain about my favorite emoticon being dysfunctional, and shazam, it's fixed. i like that.

 

[kurros]

that is not fine. god doesn't have morals. god IS LAW. and god doesn't send some people to hell. some people make damn sure they do what it takes every day to end up there. and if you don't believe me, then open up your eyes and take a good look at the world we all live in, and humanity's state of existence.

it doesn't take a whole lot of extrapolation to end up in hell from where we are.

So you disagree with premise A, fine. I said you could do that.

The original assertion was "Belief in God hinges on the reality and morality of hell".

Your argument is that it's contradictory to simultaneously believe that God is perfectly good, God does X, and that X is immoral.

There's an obvious problem with a perfectly good being doing bad things.

But how do we get from the logical incompatibility of your premises to a proof of the original assertion?

It's not a proof. It is simply a chain of logic that both premise A and B cannot be simultaneously true. You then have to reason about which (or both) is wrong. The original assertion is one possible resolution. There are of course others.

I would say that myself, although for different reasons.

But a believer in divinities could make different moves.

He or she could say that God(s) needn't be perfectly good. Polytheistic religions often depict Gods operating at cross purposes. (Even Christianity does that if you accept Satan as a dualistic anti-God, as many Christians seem to do.)

He or she could say that God doesn't condemn anyone to hell.

Or he or she could say that allowing people to go to hell isn't an immoral thing at all. One way to argue that might be to imagine hell as ancient Buddhist tradition depicts it, a temporary state of desire-gratification where everyone is getting precisely what they most desired in life. The problem being that those desires were disfunctional. When hell-beings finally realize that and reform their desires, they rise out of hell. The Buddhists attributed all that to the workings of karma and not to the will of any divinities, but it's certainly possible to put a theistic spin on that kind of psychologistic interpretation.

Some Christians do that. There's a big theological argument currently going on inside Christianity between a fundamentalist 'eternal-damnation' faction and a more theologically liberal 'universal reconciliation' faction that argues that God will eventually gather all lost souls back to him.

I have no problem with any of that.

 

[Lori_7]

here's a fun song about hell, and some tasty rock n roll eye candy for the appreciators. i get to see this band live again later this month and i'm so excited. i love this song especially because of the lyric "you should have known the price of evil, and it hurts to know that you belong here."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94bGzWyHbu0

i don't recollect being in heaven or hell, but the concept seems to me like an extrapolation of what we experience here, that given the universe and it's law our destinies are the product of our desires.

i think it's easier to look at the cosmos, or religion, or science, or even jesus, than to take an honest look in the mirror.

god told me that people were in hell because they were afraid of the light because they didn't want to see themselves in it.

does that make sense to anyone besides myself? can anyone relate to that?

 

[kurros]

i don't recollect being in heaven or hell, but the concept seems to me like an extrapolation of what we experience here, that given the universe and it's law our destinies are the product of our desires

Not that I believe in either place, but I agree completely. Our minds are evolutionarily designed to interpret and understand the world at a primitive level for survival purposes, and naturally seeks to understand new and complex things in terms of those primitive experiences. People can thus relate best to a concept of heaven/hell which shares properties with everyday experience, the more the easier.

god told me that people were in hell because they were afraid of the light because they didn't want to see themselves in it.

does that make sense to anyone besides myself? can anyone relate to that?

I wrote this whole other thing, but really it boils down to no-one lives guilt-free unless they are a sociopath or really ignorant/simple-minded. We really judge ourselves, God doesn't have to bother. People try to avoid doing this however, and try to hoist off responsibility for their actions wherever possible. There are lot more complex things I could say about this but I don't have time right now and people probably don't care so much anyway .