Banning religion?

Should we ban or restrict religion?

  • Yes, ban it

    Votes: 3 9.1%

  • Restrict it, but do not ban it

    Votes: 6 18.2%

  • No, leave "religious freedom" alone

    Votes: 18 54.5%

  • Other

    Votes: 6 18.2%
  • Total voters
    33
spidergoat said:
Albania in the 70's was a shithole that people with the means to do so could not leave fast enough.
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Actually, if you bothered to do any research at all, you'd see that Albania under Hoxha doubled their life span from 36 to 70's, industrialized, and decreased illiteracy, and generally was entirely economically better off than before socialism. An irrelevant post, to be sure, but I just wanted to correct your nonsense.

Bells said:
It wasn't successful. People were actually killed or incarcerated and tortured for believing in their deity of choice.
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I agree they shouldn't be killed. But spreading religious garbage might just be grounds for incarceration.

You cannot regulate thought and belief.

And that is horrific. How you can say that was successful is beyond me.
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It was successful:

According to the 2007–2008 Gallup polls, 63% of Albanians claim that religion does not play an important role in their life.

...though a survey conducted by Gallup Global Reports 2010 shows that religion plays a role only to 39% of Albanians, and lists Albania as the thirteenth least religious country in the world
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Albania#Religious_demography

And that's only with one or two generations. Given a few more, you could probably have a 100% atheist population.

spidergoat said:
I don't think they have much value to society, but that's irrelevant. It's impossible to ban religion without also becoming a totalitarian police state.
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"Totalitarian police state" is a buzz phrase that is hardly informative, since it says nothing about the economic or social nature of such a state. Would you like to elaborate? And what makes one policy "totalitarian" and another not? Is the war on drugs totalitarian? In the United Kingdom during World War I and World War II, dissenters were arrested. Is that "totalitarian"?
 
RedStar said:
Actually, if you bothered to do any research at all, you'd see that Albania under Hoxha doubled their life span from 36 to 70's, industrialized, and decreased illiteracy, and generally was entirely economically better off than before socialism. An irrelevant post, to be sure, but I just wanted to correct your nonsense....
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My aunt grew up there, so I know what I'm talking about. It was a nightmare.



RedStar said:
"Totalitarian police state" is a buzz phrase that is hardly informative, since it says nothing about the economic or social nature of such a state. Would you like to elaborate? And what makes one policy "totalitarian" and another not? Is the war on drugs totalitarian? In the United Kingdom during World War I and World War II, dissenters were arrested. Is that "totalitarian"?
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It means that in order to truly outlaw religion, you would have to police the very thoughts of the citizens. The war on drugs and the state at war were also very similar.
 
spidergoat said:
My aunt grew up there, so I know what I'm talking about. It was a nightmare.
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Anecdotes vary from person to person. My entire family lived in the U.S.S.R and preferred it to what we have today. I was born there, too, but alas, I was too young to remember anything.

You can find Albanians that preferred it. Crime was lower. People had jobs and food. And you can ask your aunt what it was like living under the fascists before the socialists kicked them out.

It means that in order to truly outlaw religion, you would have to police the very thoughts of the citizens. The war on drugs and the state at war were also very similar.
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I don't think anybody was ever naive enought to think that they could eradicate religious thought from the minds of people, but by suppressing its expression, you diminish its effect on the population over time.
 
RedStar said:
Fun fact: the ethnic cleansing of Eastern Europe began only after the dissolution of the Soviet bloc.
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So those satellite nations despite years of occupation and brainwashing by the Glorious USSR who's teachings of social equality, anti-racism, optimism, economic equality and the development of a cult that worshiped the glorious leaders( of a plutocracy if you think about it) just started killing as soon as they are free not having any fear of repercussions from the USSR? Seems like they didn't adopt the great values of communism did they comrade Redstar or they simply put up the façade of adopting the perfect system of government/society. I’m not saying that Capitalism or Socialism is any better and theocratic governments are just bat-shit crazy but look were communisim is now Comrade.
 
Frankly people don't realize what religion is...there does not have to be a God involved. In fact in America God has been replaced by materialistic things like an Iphone 5 new model just coming out or stuffed chicken nuggets or the new Civic model. These are icons people in USA pray for. God has been replaced for something one can buy in pieces. And removing traditional God in religions? Just look at televized preaching on TV and realize that it has very little to do with God.
 
btw just on a side note, I recall a lecture by an ex KGB (and now quite religious) speaker who was saying that back in the day, russian officials were holding back on publicly wholesale declaring certain religions prohibited since they believed the act would lend them greater interest and support amongst the citizenry
 
lightgigantic said:
btw just on a side note, I recall a lecture by an ex KGB (and now quite religious) speaker who was saying that back in the day, russian officials were holding back on publicly wholesale declaring certain religions prohibited since they believed the act would lend them greater interest and support amongst the citizenry
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well that why he is so religious now, in days of S.U. religion was banned thus everyone wanted to practice it, since it was banned.
 
Actually the Russian Orthodox Church was not banned in later years and often colluded with the Communist Party.
 
RedStar said:
I agree they shouldn't be killed. But spreading religious garbage might just be grounds for incarceration.



It was successful:



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Albania#Religious_demography

And that's only with one or two generations. Given a few more, you could probably have a 100% atheist population.
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So they shouldn't be killed, but killing them was successful in the long run...

Right..

You can't ban religion because religion is personal. Atheism should never ever be forced upon a populace under threat of incarceration, torture and death.
 
The behavior and thought procesess that lead to religion are genetically ingrained in humans. It's a fact of how we evolved as a cooperative species. Banning that behavior doesn't ban anything. It just forces the behavior to be secretly practiced. What you can do is not give religion any kind of special recognition, benefits, etc. and at the same time provide a good education for people. That combination will likely result in religion being marginalized.
 
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