Ban Petition

[spuriousmonkey]

in a strict sense there are no laws of nature in biology. Physics has always been the science to look up too. To make biology more like physics some people have introduced the laws of nature.

However, nature doesn't capture very easy in laws like for instance physics does in the laws of newton. This is because of the nature of nature. It is a chaotic ordered system in a way. Not very suitable for laws.

supernatural is everything beyond natural. Science deals with the natural world. religion is about the supernatural world. Science is emperical and before you can make a statement about nature you have to have some emperical evidence in a theoretical framework. Religion is about belief and doesn't require anything but blind faith. In the end it is not so difficult to see the difference between the two, or ist it Mr W?

 

[spuriousmonkey]

Re: education is important kids....

Originally posted by whatsupyall

IN SUMMARY, LIFE IS ALL ABOUT FAITH.........LIFE IS ALL ABOUT TRUST...

personally I disagree since i will not accept any authority and therefore life is definately not about faith.

Everyone will give their own meaning to life, so it would be pointless to give you my meaning of life. From a biological perspective it is not so difficult though to realize the meaning or purpose of life...go out and multipy...and have some fun.

 

[Cris]

whatsup,

Cris. you stressed to me earlieer that "Knowing" someones "Choice" and act, means "Controlling" that "choice" and act...In other words, you are stressing that "Knowing" means "Controlling, establishing, and acting"...Those are thoughts and works, thoughts and works have different definition..

I don’t want to restart the omniscience vs free will argument again here, but I’ll point out that omniscience, especially knowing the future with perfection is without precedent in human experience. There are significant implications involved if the future is known before events occur. In human experience we intuitively understand and expect chronological cause and effect. Omniscience destroys that law. In short we cannot meaningfully comprehend a universe where omniscience is possible.

What you are trying to do is equate the term of ‘knowing’ as experienced in normal usage with the extraordinary claim of ‘knowing’ the future. When that is combined into a being that both designed and created everything and has an ultimate plan for everything then it should not be difficult to see that this being is the direct cause of everything. But that takes us back into the argument again.

My complaint about your comments is that you are trying to reduce a complex and probably humanly incomprehensible issue to something we know in normal life, and that is invalid, but then you have the gall to call me stupid for not seeing your simplistic view.

When you continue to shout the ‘knowing’ is ‘doing’ issue it indicates your failure to comprehend the complexity of the issue. I.e. it makes you look stupid.

Please, please, and as politely as I can say this, please try to understand that ‘knowing’ the future is vastly qualitatively different from regular “knowing” of past and present events.

 

[Cris]

whatsup,

As we gain more real knowledge about the universe we see religion rapidly recede and give up ground. Secularism is now widespread in the world. A few centuries ago religion ruled the world.

Yes, because this is prophesied, Satan is working hard to drag the whole world to hell with him, even the church...This is a BELIEF...

Am i deluded for believing it? I dont think I am, because you are fulfilling this prophesy..

This is the power of religious propaganda. You have been deceived.

The progression is very simple – as knowledge increases, ignorance declines. As ignorance declines so does superstition and hence religion.

What you are saying is that ignorance is superior and preferable to knowledge.

Think about it guys, you didnt become atheists because of reason and logic or science, there is NOTHING scientific about being an atheists, NOTHING...

This plus all your other statements about atheism indicates your entire ignorance of atheism.

I suggest you read “The Case Against God” by George H Smith, Probably the best book on the atheist philosophy. I have read the bible and several variations of it. The least you can do if you want to debate with atheists is properly understand their position.

Here is a link to amazon.com. I recommend you order this book immediately.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/t...002-8839415-3581669?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

 

[Zero]

Re: Little children, education is important

Originally posted by whatsupyall
If you insist that what we labeled as "laws of nature" and physics are all there is to it, then how come you cant explain how life forms exist? Why cant you demonstrate creating life form? Because you dont know the laws of nature yet...

Whatmuscles, I thought yyou were more imaginative in your arguments than that...its one of the top ten arguments used by creationists to discredit evolution...

Who says we have no clue how life forms start? Have you not heard about the experiment done by simulating pre-earthlike conditions? With water, methane gases etc with electric sparks? The water and air was sterilized, and the gases/water reacted with the help of the electricity to form amino acids.....soon those amino acids began linking together...get the picture? Whatmuscles, are you on crack? LSD? E? Pot? Love? All of them?

Please, stop running your head against walls that have withstood the collective attacks of the RCC and have barely scratched. The academic society considers such arguments with polite contempt. You're just another ignorant, bible-banging, delusional, selfproclaimed catechist teacher. The thought of kids learning from you horrifies me. What is America coming to??

In case you are in lack of more religious insults to hurl at me, I might tell you that I am Asian. Happy racial slurring to you, sir. I can hear it coming..."You and your stupid mongolian influence, leading us honest whites astray...go back to asia!! asians are all children of satan!! I believe in god, not some stupid buddha buddha stuff!!"

Heard it a million times, it would be fun to hear it from a religious standpoint. Take a shot, whatmuscles! *hands him a carnival hat and a toy rifle*

__________________________________________
There is no god, afterlife or divine love. There is only Entropy, the mother from which we were all born. She tugs our souls with the beautiful, maternal love of chaos. Why do you keep Her waiting?

 

[Jan Ardena]

Re: Re: Little children, education is important

Originally posted by Zero
Have you not heard about the experiment done by simulating pre-earthlike conditions?

Yes i heard about it. Did it create life? No.
As ingenious as the experiment was, the mixture of amino acids and other simple chemicals produced were not correct for producing life.

Love

Jan Ardena.

 

[notme2000]

Somehow, I get the feeling if Whatsupall were actually banned all of you would be saying "Hmmm.... Now what?"

 

[Cris]

Jan,

Yes i heard about it. Did it create life? No.
As ingenious as the experiment was, the mixture of amino acids and other simple chemicals produced were not correct for producing life.

Given the facts of these early experiments and our very recent discovery of DNA and the decoding of the human genome, the very new discoveries with stem cell research, the ability to clone, and a variety of related other biology projects, don’t you think it is inevitable that we will be able to create biological life from scratch in the future? Remember these are new sciences.

If you don’t think it is inevitable then what is it about biological life that you feel will prevent man from achieving this goal?

 

[Cris]

notme,

Somehow, I get the feeling if Whatsupall were actually banned all of you would be saying "Hmmm.... Now what?"

LOL. You may be correct. He has at least proffered fairly basic questions enabling many atheists here to practice their expressions of their understanding of the issues.

 

[Jan Ardena]

Originally posted by Cris
Given the facts of these early experiments and our very recent discovery of DNA and the decoding of the human genome, the very new discoveries with stem cell research, the ability to clone, and a variety of related other biology projects, don’t you think it is inevitable that we will be able to create biological life from scratch in the future? Remember these are new sciences.

If you don’t think it is inevitable then what is it about biological life that you feel will prevent man from achieving this goal? [/B]

No, i don't think we will be able to create lifeforms from scratch at any time.

What do i think will prevent man from this goal?
Nothing will prevent man, because it cannot be done, it is out of the material domain.

Love

Jan Ardena.

 

[Raithere]

What time does the book burning start?

I do not think whatsupyall should be banned from the forums. While I do find that most of his posts are off-topic, rude, and consist primarily of regurgitated material he occasionally does highlight a point worthy of consideration. I find that he also is a perfect example of what is wrong with faith and religion. As such he does provide a valuable counterpoint. He also provides an opportunity to address and learn about such thick-headed reasoning. In brief, I find him a wonderful case study.

While personally, I prefer to carry a discussion above the primal level of whatsup's arena I find that he forces me to simplify my reasoning in hopes of teaching him to see his own errors.

I also think we need to seriously consider the ramifications of such censorship. You cannot rightly impose such a ruling upon someone without justification and provided you have such justification then it is only proper to apply this across-the-board. So what 'rules' are you going to apply? And how do each of us measure up to these rules? Censorship is a powerful tool and we need to be particularly careful in its use. Using it simply because you disagree and/or are offended by the speaker is dangerous in the extreme. Consider that in a primarily theistic world the opinions and voice of the atheist may be similarly offensive to theists.

Given this, I do think that whatsup's posts should be monitored a bit more closely, primarily as to whether he is anywhere near the topic or not. This is essentially a moderated forum and posts that are consistently and widely off topic should be either removed (which puts the burden on the moderators) or simply ignored by the rest of us. It is the latter suggestion which I think should be followed. If his post is completely off topic then simply tell him so and refuse to address him any further. Other than that, reply or not as you wish, report his abusiveness if you want, and ignore him if you simply do not wish to deal with him.

~Raithere

 

[Thor]

See the whole 'Ignore Whatsupyall' plan is working well

So, what has this thread taught us so far?

Lets summarise...

Whatsupyall posts items that are of no relevance to the thread
Insults everyone who is against him
He seems to think calling everyone "children" makes him seem old
He puts forward, lets call them, ideas that have little/no fact or evidence behind them
He's a complete idiot

Need I say more

And I have a suspiscion that I'm on his ignore list, woo!!!

 

[(Q)]

Sure, you could ban Whatsup/Muscles plus any other aliases he has allegedly assumed, but aside from his annoying habit of using CAPS, don't you think he does more damage to theists arguments then any other member here ? Doesn't he reaffirm your position as a non-theist time and again ? And if you are a theist, don't you want to curl up in a fetal position each time you read his posts ?

I suspect the theists would be more interested in petitioning his banning.

 

[whatsupyall]

Re: Re: Little children, education is important

Originally posted by Zero
Whatmuscles, I thought yyou were more imaginative in your arguments than that...
Who says we have no clue how life forms start? ........

Yup, Science have demonstrated how amibo acids exist. How did the amino acid came to life? Im sure dead cells are also composed of amino acids, so how did it came to life?
Did amino acis MAGICLY became mitochondria, cyoplasm, cell membrane, nucleus, etc. BY LUCK? Then prove it...

Originally posted by Zero
[
soon those amino acids began linking together...get the picture? ........

So you want me to use my imagination? Well, so thats how you found yur evidence, IMAGINATION, and you call that scientific? haaaa...I see, you want me to be delusional like you, well Im sorry but I cant do that....

Originally posted by Zero
[
Whatmuscles, are you on crack? LSD? E? Pot? Love? All of them?

right back at you....

 

[wet1]

Strange it is when someone must invent a sock puppet to have someone to agree with them. Kind of speaks for itself.

Should you seek banning of these individuals who then will you have to argue with? At least such provide entertainment in an otherwise lackluster and bleak enviroment where only the athetists make any kind of sense. It is evident from the responces of the community here that the whatsup-muscle individual is not to be taken seriously. Something I figured out sometime ago and then proceeded to ignore without the ignore function.

 

[whatsupyall]

Originally posted by Cris
whatsup,

This is the power of religious propaganda. You have been deceived.

Lets talk about deception and lies...What about you Cris, you have not been decieved? Do i have evidence that you have been deceievd? yes I do...
Read your quote about Einstein....Einstein didnt say "Belief of a God is a childlike one", YOU ADDED THAT THERE YOURSELF...Thats a fact for I have read the exact quote...
And as quoted above, you still insist that"Knowing" someone's choice ahead means acting on that choice....
Then because you obviously lost the argument, then you insist that such as someone that intelligent cannot eexist "JUST BECAUSE YOU SAY SO", would you mind please show me evidence that God dont exist before MAKING A CLAIM, ok child....
If your lies isnt deception...Then I dont know what is...

Originally posted by Cris

The progression is very simple – as knowledge increases, ignorance declines. As ignorance declines so does superstition and hence religion.

LOL, you have some strange theory child...

What is superstition? Define that for me quick...Something we donot see? something we cannot understand? eexplain, I want to stick to this subject for a while........

Originally posted by Cris

What you are saying is that ignorance is superior and preferable to knowledge.

How am I saying that? Because I disproved your pathetic arguments? then your gonna go on falsely accusing me like always? Knowledge is power....

Originally posted by Cris

This plus all your other statements about atheism indicates your entire ignorance of atheism.

I took out what you are basically stating, ALL THAT I HAVE POSTED CONCERNING ATHEISM ARE THAT CAME OUT OF YOUR MOUTH AND MANY OTHERS HERE, so dont blaim me, blame yourself...

 

[notme2000]

Actually I've seen that Einstein quote exactly as he has it posted.

 

[whatsupyall]

little education wont hurt

Originally posted by spuriousmonkey

It is a chaotic ordered system in a way. Not very suitable for laws.

How is biological's existence chaotic? Because you dont understand it? If it is so chaotic, then how can all the parts that make up a cell work together in harmony and exist? How is nature chaotic? Explain this kid....Because I killed a worm? Isnt that part of the cycle of life?

Originally posted by spuriousmonkey

supernatural is everything beyond natural. Science deals with the natural world. religion is about the supernatural world. Science is emperical and before you can make a statement about nature you have to have some emperical evidence in a theoretical framework. Religion is about belief and doesn't require anything but blind faith. In the end it is not so difficult to see the difference between the two, or ist it Mr W?

Religion requires blind faith? LOL, thats not my understanding of many years in the game, is that al your deluded little mind learned about religion? Then I suggest you do a little more study than eating chips and watching southpark...

Yes there are empirical evidence of SOME sciences. Take biology and medical works for example, those are empirical evidence and SOME of its study is an absolute fact, because it IS EVIDENT...

About Biological and technological existence, if any of these are discovered, how does it take the creator of the universe out of science? How? Why would your human pride then assume that there is no God, is it because now you became your own God?

If something is out of what we can measure and physically observe, is it then out of science?? If so is it a myth?
Have you measured the blackhole? Have you physically observed black hole? Nope, therefore you cant call it science, is it then a myth?
Have you measured the force that gives us life? Have you physically observed it? Nope, therefore you cant call it science, is it then a myth?

 

[Cris]

Jan,

No, i don't think we will be able to create lifeforms from scratch at any time.

What do i think will prevent man from this goal?
Nothing will prevent man, because it cannot be done, it is out of the material domain.

Is this your opinion or do you have something more substantial that will support that idea.

Are you saying that if we put all of the material components together of a cell, including all the active metabolic functions then it won’t be alive?

If yes then please explain why not and perhaps show how an alleged immaterial component can interact with a material structure.

 

[Cris]

whatsup,

Read your quote about Einstein....Einstein didnt say "Belief of a God is a childlike one", YOU ADDED THAT THERE YOURSELF...Thats a fact for I have read the exact quote...

Then read his letters again. I gave you the link. It was quite clear.