Atheists

[Roman]

I joined cause of the religion forums here (I think), but found everyone to be senseless Christians, senseless atheists or senseless mystics.

Most of the people who dick around in the religion section seem to team up a bit. Your typical Christians v. Atheist thing, really.

And it's funny, because Atheists tout themselves as some sort of superior being that is pure rationality, devoid of belief. Yet, you all behave essentially the same as Christians. You spew the same rhetoric and strut like the label 'atheist' means anything.

My favorite assinine debate, though, is that of whether atheists are religious. Does atheism count as a religion? Does science?

Well, no, not technically. Atheists deny the existance of a God, so aren't technically in a religion. However, the ignorance, intolerance and ferocity to which Atheists around here cling to their pretensions differs little from their diapoles.

Here's a little example, from Superluminal

I'm sick of it all too. You know god IS? Bullshit. You know for sure, like everyone else, somewhere inside, that GOD is a fantasy.

That realization is immediate in some people, who are generally well adjusted atheists. In others it's buried deep and creates the dichotomous mind disease called RELIGION.

(bolds mine)
http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?p=825308#post825308

Is that not an entirely obnoxious and ungrounded statement? Superluminal's beliefs and dogma cause him to spew the same garbage that his supposed enemies do!

[Disclaimer]
I'm a thorough disbeliever, so if you come at me, perhaps construct an argument revolving around my hypocrisy and not my Christianity (of which I have none).
Superluminal, I mean nothing personal against you in using you as an example, nor with my somewhat inflammatory rhetoric. It's just that this baloney has been greatly bothering me, and you were the straw that broke the camel's back, so to speak. I do welcome any arguement/discussion/flaming you wish to engage in, though.

 

[KitNyx]

I agree, I find Atheists to be no different than anyone else who claims to know Truth (big "T"). Personally, I do not know how anyone can claim to be educated enough to make a decision, I have studied religion for many years and all I have ever found is more questions...Even if I had found a belief that seems to make more sense than any other that I had ever heard of, I can not forget the most important part of that logic...that I have ever heard of...

- KitNyx

 

[superluminal]

I find Atheists to be no different than anyone else who claims to know Truth (big "T").

Most of us don't claim that. Without any evidence, we simply have no need to postulate a god. Just like you may have no need, without evidence, to postulate that a "poop" fairy is responsible for your bathroom visits. It's just not necessary.

 

[superluminal]

Hi Roman. In my real life I am considered a pacifist/rationalist. Sometimes, however, I feel the need to spew some "obnoxious and ungrounded" statements to put the absurdity of it all into sharp relief.

And other times, I just feel plain ornery, and the anonymity of the forums allows me to vent without too much agonizing.

 

[KitNyx]

Then your agnostic, you do not claim to know any big "T", making every one a possibility...granted, some to greater degrees of probability...got it, chalk one up for you...

- KitNyx

 

[superluminal]

Roman:

...because Atheists tout themselves as some sort of superior being that is pure rationality, devoid of belief. Yet, you all behave essentially the same as Christians. You spew the same rhetoric and strut like the label 'atheist' means anything.

For most of us?

Superior beings? Ok. If you insist . Rational? Definitely. Behaving like christians? No way.

We accept ALL religions and their right to practice in any way they see fit, IN PRIVATE. We wish to be left alone and free from religious influences in public. Which is what the founders wanted also. That's about it.

Christians, on the other hand, want to impose their will on EVERYONE. After all, we need to be saved, correct? It's their devine duty to evangelize and convert.

 

[superluminal]

Kitnyx,

Basically correct. I consider myself to be a "medium-well" atheist. I have a very strong certainty that there are no gods. But I basically don't care one way or the other. I just want to live my life without being reminded regularly that I'm going to hell. I live in rural Lancaster County, Pa, USA (Christian/Amish country) and trust me, it happens,

 

[KitNyx]

Of course...more followers, more tithes...the Roman Catholic Empire was the first true Corporation...they answered to no one (on Earth) and their CEO's were not to be held responsible for the evil of their decisions (papal decree)...

I like it - long live the medium-well atheists...May Jesus find you before the Hindu do...

- KitNyx

 

[superluminal]

If the Hindu do, don't I get to come back for another try? As a dog? Or an eagle maybe? Or... ugh... a slug? Never mind. I'll take my chances with the Big J.

 

[Raithere]

I joined cause of the religion forums here (I think), but found everyone to be senseless Christians, senseless atheists or senseless mystics.
...
it's funny, because Atheists tout themselves as some sort of superior being
...
Atheists around here cling to their pretensions differs little from their diapoles

So everyone here is an asshole except you. Did I get that right?

Can you say "hypocrite"?

And it's funny, because Atheists tout themselves as some sort of superior being that is pure rationality, devoid of belief. Yet, you all behave essentially the same as Christians. You spew the same rhetoric and strut like the label 'atheist' means anything.

This is an online forum, not a formal debate. So yes, you will find people acting like... people. Atheists are not exempt from stupidity, arrogance, anger, or just being ornery (as superluminal pointed out). But your pretentious, broad-sweeping generalizations are... mmm... senseless.

So maybe now that you've had your little fit and explained to us all how stupid we are you can contribute something that demonstrates your presumed superiority.

~Raithere

 

[Raithere]

Then your agnostic, you do not claim to know any big "T", making every one a possibility...granted, some to greater degrees of probability...got it, chalk one up for you...- KitNyx

The large majority of Atheists (in my experience, and here in particular) are epistemologically agnostic in regards to god (weak atheist position). Religiously, however, we are still atheists in that we do not believe in a god. Religious agnostics believe either that god exists but is essentially unknowable or that there might be a god but there isn't enough evidence to make a determination. It's not quite the same thing.

I would say that typically religious agnostics believe there is some evidence for god's existence just not enough to make a definitive judgment while weak atheists find no evidence for god at all but admit to limited knowledge.

~Raithere

 

[Roman]

Raithere,

Atheists are not exempt from stupidity, arrogance, anger, or just being ornery (as superluminal pointed out).

No, no of course not. I just tire of atheists here presupposing that their lack of a deity automatically grants them more worth than those who are religious. I really see no difference in behavior between either party, and I really wish atheists would stop pretending there was one.

But your pretentious, broad-sweeping generalizations are... mmm... senseless.

Mmm... broad-sweeping generalizations. I didn't mean to broadly sweep all the atheists, though. I only wanted to vent my frustration on the few (ok, quite a few) individuals who engage in this kind of uh... debate.

I'm not really addressing atheists in general. I'm an atheist. I don't believe in any supreme powers, I don't think about it, and I don't really bother anyone with my belief in a lack of a creator.
It's just these atheists that accuse Christians of being unable to think rationally. They scoff at a religious man's faith and call names and attempt to convert him to nonbelief. I'm saying they here, because they very often say "us," as in "us atheists." Check Superluminal's posts here if you don't believe me.

I'm not being very articulate here. I really hope you understand what I'm trying to get at. If you don't, and you probably don't because I've done a very poor job at explaining myself, I'll try again later.

Can you say "hypocrite"?

I believe I already did .

 

[the preacher]

Is that not an entirely obnoxious and ungrounded statement? Superluminal's beliefs and dogma cause him to spew the same garbage that his supposed enemies do!

as you have done also.

The idea of a loving creator is absurd. We have no concrete proof that he is either loving or a creator. We only have an old book, and through most of it he was really, really mean.

It wasn't until about 2000 years ago that God changed his tune (and to that of a trinity). Even then, all the evil and ambiguity God allows in his rational creatures is beyond forgivable. Besides that, the idea that you only learn the truth after you die, and after you've already committed yourself to dibelief and hell, is entirely unfair.

Why would God give us rationality, or the ability to question, or think that He's an illogical and contradictory creator, if he loved us? Why set us up to fall? God giving Man reason is like a woman drinking while she's pregnant. It's completely unfair and irresponisble, and the fetus has no choice in the decision, or in the results.

is this not hypocracy.

however we are all guilty of the same crime, religious and non-religious alike.
that is the point of a public forum.

 

[Roman]

is this not hypocracy.

Oh well done.
I recognize very much that I am guilty of this.
However, in context to that quote, Ebed asked a question, and I threw down my two cents. I believe I criticized the Almighty there, not anyone's belief in Him.

But I'm sure if you keep digging you can find even better contradictions.

Look, here's The Essential Template for Atheist vs. Religious Dialogue.
Religious: You should believe in X. X loves you and offers great rewards. You only have to sacrifice some freedom to be rewarded. After you die, X rewards/punishes you.
Atheist: You haven't any proof of X's existence.
Religious: Sure I do, this ancient book says so.
Atheist: Hey, you ancient book also says we should drown homosexuals. You can't think for yourself. Have you no reason?
Religious: Oh you sad, sad lonely man. X loves you very much. Where's your humanity?
Atheist: Stupid, can't you see that there's no proof?
Religious: There's plenty of proof, you exist don't you?
Atheist: Ignorant swine.
Religios: I know you are but what am I?

Then it moves on to each side attacking eachother, rather than the argument, as they've come to the impasse of proof.
And each side, I suppose unaware that they're behaving as the other. I mean, I suppose they're unaware, beacuse they accuse eachother in essentially the same manner.

 

[Silas]

Well, I'm stepping in here to say what I often feel like saying to my fellow-nonbelievers on other threads, but can't without derailing the thread or sounding like a religionist. I agree that sometimes the non-religious posters are more anti-religious, seemingly just for the sake of finding something to sneer at. Someone posts their fundamental beliefs, and someone on my "team" will post a couple of lines about belief in fairy stories. That is needlessly derogatory and doesn't really contribute to the debate.

I am not against religion. I am against Fundamentalism, particularly when it threatens the education of children, especially in this day and age. I am against intolerance of other viewpoints and other religions. I expect, as an atheist, to be consigned to hell, but when Catholics are subjected to the kind of sectarian hatred from the JIL/Jack Chick people that should have last been seen in the 18th Century it does somewhat make my blood boil. (Of course, anti-Islam and anti-Semitic vitriol gets me angry too.) And I am against religion-inspired homophobia.

 

[Adstar]

Hi Roman. In my real life I am considered a pacifist/rationalist.

Thats the lie you try to convice yourself of and project to the world.

Sometimes, however, I feel the need to spew some "obnoxious and ungrounded" statements to put the absurdity of it all into sharp relief.

And other times, I just feel plain ornery, and the anonymity of the forums allows me to vent without too much agonizing.

Yes the anonymity of the forums allows you to reveal the real gutless piece of shit you really are to everyone who can read. You and your kind do not put any absurdities into sharp relief, but you succeed only too well in revel yourself in sharp relief.

All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[superluminal]

Adstar,

Besides you being a racist ("You and your kind..."), and just plain rotten person ("...gutless piece of shit you really are"), " who or what the fuck is "The Ancient Of Days"?

 

[Roman]

sometimes the non-religious posters are more anti-religious, seemingly just for the sake of finding something to sneer at. Someone posts their fundamental beliefs, and someone on my "team" will post a couple of lines about belief in fairy stories. That is needlessly derogatory and doesn't really contribute to the debate.

Yeah, that's exactly how I feel.

who or what the fuck is "The Ancient Of Days"?

Yeah, no kidding. What is The Ancient of Days?

 

[Adstar]

you have the hide to call me a rotten person?

Quote from superluminal:
I'm angry. I want to decimate some christian villages. Who's with me? GRRRRAAARRRGGGHHHHH!!!!

Oh, I don't know. Just a bit of burning, pillaging, gathering of young virgins for sex slaves... You know? Just the normal stuff...

Your a nasty little piece of human filth, aren’t you.

Keep the quotes coming superluminal. keep reveling your true heart to the world.

All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[superluminal]

Silas:

...seemingly just for the sake of finding something to sneer at

That may largely be the case. But there are some of us (non-believers) who sincerely think that religion as it is and has been carried out since its inception, is inherently very bad and serves to do nothing positive (in the grand scheme of things) but stifle human progress.

So an active dislike naturally arises, and sneering may be the only thing to do at the time, other than whacking the nearest xian on the noggin.

I for one would love to do the experiment where everyone in the world has their religion genes turned off for a few hundred years just to see what happens (peace, happiness...?)