Exactly, thank you. Note that whatever you claimed has nothing to do with what Dawkins said. Perfect. :thumbsup:
atheists, please explain yourselves..
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Exactly, thank you. Note that whatever you claimed has nothing to do with what Dawkins said. Perfect. :thumbsup:
I said close as God was going to get. We are predisposed toward good but still have free choice. We are predisposed to believeing in a higher power but still have a choice not to. We're imperfect, but then again if we were perfect we would be damn bored.
Why, I at least have a mind open to possibilities, while yours is closed to anything you cannot understand.
No, it is your delusion that there is nothing more. You have no proof. I merely concede that there is a possibility that there something more out ther. You deny the possibility of it's existance.
You're free to wallow in myth and superstition and attempt to rationalize it with your 'holier than thou' attitude of pity, but you're also free to demonstrate that the fantasy world you believe in offers anything different than what the world offers anyone else.
You can't, ever.
I am not the on deriding and demeaning others for their belief and yes atheism is a belief.
Even allowing for your absurd assumptions, God is doing a horribly poor job.
An open mind doesn't mean fabricating "answers" or accepting absurd cruel fantasy.
Absurd assumption.
I never said there's nothing more. You go much further than conceding to possibilities. You state fantasy as fact.
No. Atheism is not a belief.
Absurd cruel fantasy accepted as fact is unworthy of respect.
Why should we believe in something there is no evidence for?
Would you believe me if I told you the world was created by a huge blue scorpion, without any kind of evidence?
No. I thought not.
So why is your God a special case? Why is he deserving of unsubstantiated belief?
Would you believe me if I told you the world was created by a huge blue scorpion, without any kind of evidence?
No. I thought not.
So why is your God a special case? Why is he deserving of unsubstantiated belief?
TW,
Not if we were his design and he is all powerful. He could have designed us differently. The result must be exactly as he intended if he is perfect.
From an evolutionary perspective the first part is correct, but we cannot have free will if all that is going to happen is already known, i.e. God’s omniscience necessarily implies we cannot have free will.
Not quite. We are predisposed for a strong survival instinct and a system that promises eternal life is an attractive proposition. We are also predisposed to be somewhat irrational where emotions are involved and that further leads us towards religious promises. These are evolutionary traits, not supernaturally inspired.
That cannot be true if you are a theist since that implies you only follow that one narrow path – a god did everything – and your mind must be closed to any other possibility.
The atheist position is simply disbelief in your claims. It implies nothing more about any alternatives.
Not really. The atheist doesn’t claim there is nothing else only that what is claimed as something else has no basis.
Isn’t the perpetual absence of evidence for your claims strong evidence that you have nothing?
Why is a god possible? The best we can do is speculate but we are in no position to propose that a god might be possible.
That’s a very strong stance typical of religious teachings about atheism. Atheists do not deny, they simply disbelieve theist claims. This says nothing about what is possible or not.
Here are your words:
It appears you can dish it out but you can't take it.
just like wanting to know who created this universe, but they don't go on about the details and styles and visual discriptions because not only is it pointless..but it might make you do harm to yourself(and others)..
many people lose their way in looking for god..those who answered all the questions exist but are few..those few reach to leaders and put their energy into giving them the conclusion and making them satified with it..then those leaders apply what they learned to their people without telling them how everything went because it would be a waste of time, and because some people are pure stupid....it's like parents telling their kids how they were born without all the details..
axe..you got it messed up..
religion explains very little, religion tells you how things are..science is what explains everything..and because science and discovery are continuously evolving..meaning every minute proves a fallacy in the minute before it..it is wrong to accept it as a way of life....as a tool to explain life, yes..but as a WAY of life..i don't think so..
1- i gave atheism it's chance long ago..it failed then..i did it again with the guys in this forum..and they couldn't even be as challenging as i was to myself last time..
2-i'm interested in the far more complicated arguments you mentioned..but if i'm 18 and the explenations i give to the simple points weren't understood here..why would the more complicated be otherwise?
3-and this is important..have you ever read a whole book on an opposit view which you might call stupid and gave it a fair viewing?
actually i'm writing a book myself
..grumble:although i admit i wrote more of it on this forum than in print) and you're right..i am lazy
..but if you promise me that if i read to this dawkins there would be some real progress..i actually might do it..FIRE AWAY!!
The end result is always determined by the medium as much as the tools and the skill of the creator. If the medium is imperfect the result will always be imperfect. Besides, don;t you think we are loved more for being imperfect.
I have argued this before and still you do not understand. Just becuase the utcome is known does not mean free will is gone. It's just that God understands us well enough he knows what are choices are despite not making them for us. Thus we are free willed. When you develop the ability to actually understand this you will wonder why you ever though t the other way.
No actually i believe a greater power might have set things in motion and then made some tinkering along the line. I still believe in big bang and evolution and even chaos theory.
Actually it states a belief that that can be no god. And that can only be a belief as you have no evidence either.
EmeraldAxe
Registered Senior Member
just like wanting to know who created this universe, but they don't go on about the details and styles and visual discriptions because not only is it pointless..but it might make you do harm to yourself(and others)..
many people lose their way in looking for god..those who answered all the questions exist but are few..those few reach to leaders and put their energy into giving them the conclusion and making them satified with it..then those leaders apply what they learned to their people without telling them how everything went because it would be a waste of time, and because some people are pure stupid....it's like parents telling their kids how they were born without all the details..
axe..you got it messed up..
religion explains very little, religion tells you how things are..science is what explains everything..and because science and discovery are continuously evolving..meaning every minute proves a fallacy in the minute before it..it is wrong to accept it as a way of life....as a tool to explain life, yes..but as a WAY of life..i don't think so..
1- i gave atheism it's chance long ago..it failed then..i did it again with the guys in this forum..and they couldn't even be as challenging as i was to myself last time..
2-i'm interested in the far more complicated arguments you mentioned..but if i'm 18 and the explenations i give to the simple points weren't understood here..why would the more complicated be otherwise?
3-and this is important..have you ever read a whole book on an opposit view which you might call stupid and gave it a fair viewing?
actually i'm writing a book myself
and you're right..i am lazy
I have read the old testament.
If I'm not interested in a book after the first 60 pages, I stop reading it. It's arbitrary, but you only have so much time and you can't read every book in print. Dawkins book, even though authored by a scientist, is well written in my opinion. If you read it, then find me and we should discuss it.
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Just read Dawkins books and try to refute him. Simple.
“
The atheist position is simply disbelief in your claims. It implies nothing more about any alternatives.
”
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Actually, it does not.
The atheist position is simply disbelief in your claims. It implies nothing more about any alternatives.
”
-=-
Actually, it does not.
TW,
Monotheist gods are usually depicted as all-powerful. This means that it can create the medium and tools to be exactly as it needs.
Why? If I produce something sub-standard I would tend to destroy it not love it.
And you still don’t get it. If the outcome is known beforehand then you have no free will to do anything other than what is known you will do. Remember, the knowledge would exist before you are even born. The simple existence of something omniscient necessarily means that everything has been pre-determined. Free will cannot coexist with that.
Dream on kiddo.
What are you quoting? It is not correct.
NOT with an all knowing god you dont!
http://www.geocities.com/inquisitive79/vindicate.html
no we arent,every god believer was indoctrinated into religion,by their parents..
What did God do during that eternity before he created everything? If God was all that existed back then, what disturbed the eternal equilibrium and compelled him to create? Was he bored? Was he lonely?
God is supposed to be perfect.
If something is perfect, it is complete--it needs nothing else. We humans engage in activities because we are pursuing that elusive perfection, because there is disequilibrium caused by a difference between what we are and what we want to be.
If God is perfect, there can be no disequilibrium. There is nothing he needs, nothing he desires, and nothing he must or will do.
A God who is perfect does nothing except exist.
A perfect creator God is impossible.
BS,
religious mind by its own definition is closed to all other possible scenarios.
thats b/c xian god is impossible to be real
http://www.evilbible.com/Impossible.htm
http://www.geocities.com/inquisitive79/godlogic.html
http://www.jcnot4me.com/Items/evangelical_ath/einstein_emc2.htm
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IF God created everything, there must have been a time when nothing existed except God. IF nothing else existed, the only thing God could have used to create something was itself. Thus Life, The Universe & Everything were made out of God.
So parts of God worship God. Parts of God believe it will eternally torture some other parts of God for not believing in itself. Eventually, God will welcome back the parts of itself that believed in it & everything will be good again. (Except for the missing parts.)
IF God created everything, there must have been a time when nothing existed except God. IF nothing else existed, the only thing God could have used to create something was itself. Thus Life, The Universe & Everything were made out of God.
So parts of God worship God. Parts of God believe it will eternally torture some other parts of God for not believing in itself. Eventually, God will welcome back the parts of itself that believed in it & everything will be good again. (Except for the missing parts.)
I suspect its just a myth..Hmm - that's a bit of a stretch, remember a god can create something from nothing, or so I am told.
just like him being the Loving one
www.evilbible.com