Atheism=Theism?

[Mr. Hamtastic]

So, the assertion is that atheists hold nothing to be greater than themselves?

 

[one_raven]

So, the assertion is that atheists hold nothing to be greater than themselves?

No.
This is meaningless, first of all, because the only assertion that can be made of atheists is that they lack belief in God(s).
Secondly, even those atheists who may hold nothing to be greater than themselves are still not necessarily deifying themselves unless they consider themselves to be divine and worthy of worship. They may be self-absorbed, narcissistic and arguably deluded, but still atheists.

 

[Mr. Hamtastic]

So there are no subclasifications of atheists? All atheists believe there is nothing worthy of worship? This smacks of generality and stereotype that makes atheists less than they are. It's like saying all Atheists are in favor of destruction of religion.

Too much emphasis is being put onto deification as a term. Do people not worship themselves in some fashion? I am not suggesting that any atheist deifies that which he has no evidence of. Perhaps it would be better to say that atheism requires a mix of materialism and phenomenalism, but aren't these common traits throughout humanity?

Is the fear of being compared to a theist, based on your own misconceptualizations of theism, so great?

I have suggested that swarm and one_raven are different types of atheists, because they don't hold to atheism in the exact same ways.

 

[Enmos]

So there are no subclasifications of atheists? All atheists believe there is nothing worthy of worship? This smacks of generality and stereotype that makes atheists less than they are. It's like saying all Atheists are in favor of destruction of religion.

Too much emphasis is being put onto deification as a term. Do people not worship themselves in some fashion? I am not suggesting that any atheist deifies that which he has no evidence of. Perhaps it would be better to say that atheism requires a mix of materialism and phenomenalism, but aren't these common traits throughout humanity?

Is the fear of being compared to a theist, based on your own misconceptualizations of theism, so great?

I have suggested that swarm and one_raven are different types of atheists, because they don't hold to atheism in the exact same ways.

Hammie, what makes you think that atheism means more than just not holding particular believes ?

Atheism pretty much comes down to "I don't believe in any god". That's it.. period.

 

[Mr. Hamtastic]

Enmos-do you propose that this is the case for all self-proclaimed "atheists"? I suggest that they hold some things highly enough to worship, in some cases the assertion of atheism itself is held in such a way.

 

[one_raven]

All atheists believe there is nothing worthy of worship?

Where did I say that?
In fact, I said the opposite, didn't I?
For the third time, the only thing you can say about all atheists is that they all lack belief in God(s).

This smacks of generality and stereotype that makes atheists less than they are. It's like saying all Atheists are in favor of destruction of religion.

It's more like saying all atheists deify something.

Too much emphasis is being put onto deification as a term. Do people not worship themselves in some fashion? I am not suggesting that any atheist deifies that which he has no evidence of. Perhaps it would be better to say that atheism requires a mix of materialism and phenomenalism, but aren't these common traits throughout humanity?

I think you are missing the point entirely.
Atheism is not an "ism" - it is not a belief system at all.
One of my favorite quotes about atheism (I really have to look this up and remind myself who said it) is, "If atheism is a religion, not collecting stamps is a hobby".

Is the fear of being compared to a theist, based on your own misconceptualizations of theism, so great?

Actually I don't consider myself an atheist, as I have told you (though you probably thought I was joking) so this would not apply to me, regardless.
And I'm not sure what misonceptions you think I have about theism, as I used to be a theist.
Frankly, theist is about as vague and meaningless as atheist.
What do you really have in common with a Hindu?

I have suggested that swarm and one_raven are different types of atheists, because they don't hold to atheism in the exact same ways.

For example, swarm considers himself an atheist.

 

[Mr. Hamtastic]

So theism pretty much comes down to "I believe in a deity/something supernatural"? That's it?

 

[one_raven]

Enmos-do you propose that this is the case for all self-proclaimed "atheists"? I suggest that they hold some things highly enough to worship, in some cases the assertion of atheism itself is held in such a way.

Of course some do.
Just as some play chess and some do not.
There is no club.

 

[one_raven]

So theism pretty much comes down to "I believe in a deity/something supernatural"? That's it?

Pretty much, yeah.

 

[Enmos]

Enmos-do you propose that this is the case for all self-proclaimed "atheists"?

Actually, I do.
Why would you say 'self-proclaimed "atheists"' ? Atheists don't need to be sworn in or something..

I suggest that they hold some things highly enough to worship, in some cases the assertion of atheism itself is held in such a way.

To worship something makes that something a god, right ?

 

[Mr. Hamtastic]

one_raven- Precisely why we need to delineate the different bits of atheism into subsects.

 

[Enmos]

So theism pretty much comes down to "I believe in a deity/something supernatural"? That's it?

That doesn't necessarily follow, but in this case: yep.

 

[Mr. Hamtastic]

To worship something means to put it into a place considered a place of "godhood". What is a museum of art, but a temple to art?

self-proclaimed means simply having proclaimed by the authority of themselves.

There may be no club, but groupings of this sort are often made by outsiders looking in, after which, the insiders can use the classification to better explain themselves.

 

[Mr. Hamtastic]

One wonders, then, Enmos, why you and Q offer different views on Theism from each other. Or Q and M*W. All atheists hold the same unbelief, right?

 

[Enmos]

To worship something means to put it into a place considered a place of "godhood". What is a museum of art, but a temple to art?

I don't believe in godhood.

self-proclaimed means simply having proclaimed by the authority of themselves.

To call themselves atheists ? I certainly haven't. Theists, on this site, started calling me an atheist. Before, when asked, I just said that I don't believe in god.
Also, is there authority involved, or should there be, for not believing something ?

There may be no club, but groupings of this sort are often made by outsiders looking in, after which, the insiders can use the classification to better explain themselves.

Groupings of what sort

 

[Enmos]

One wonders, then, Enmos, why you and Q offer different views on Theism from each other. Or Q and M*W. All atheists hold the same unbelief, right?

All atheists do not believe in any god. That doesn't stop them from interpreting religion.
I don't understand how you make the link..
Are you suggesting that all non-chess players think the exact same way about how to play the game ?

 

[one_raven]

one_raven- Precisely why we need to delineate the different bits of atheism into subsects.

Wrong.
Why would we possibly need to do that?

First, what is the purpose?

Second, it is not applicable.
Theists compartmentalize themselves, "I am a Christian" I am a Catholic" "I am a Hindu".
Atheists is something completely different. It is not another subdivision - they simply do not subscribe to those subdivisions that theists made up.

If there is a Chess Club, and a Go Club and a Scrabble Club, but you don't play any of these games, what club are you required to join?
Is it necessary that you join the "I don't play board games club" or do you simply not join a club associated with board games?

One thing I have noticed that is very often a distinction between atheists and theists (though certainly not universal or a defining character) is that theists seem to feel the need to join a club and atheists do not.
Do you feel the need to be surrounded by people who will reaffirm and shore up your belief?

 

[Ophiolite]

Does it help or hurt that I made the word up?

You are not just any deity, but the supreme being, for you have the power of creation also.

 

[Ophiolite]

To worship something means to put it into a place considered a place of "godhood".

There is a poweful disconnect between your percptions here and mine.
You seem to be equating God with a being worthy of worship. For me the two concepts are not necessarily related.
God, is she exists, is the creator of the Universe. Since I don't know what the intent of this purported God might be then any worship would be a littel premature. Worship, the wholehearted adulation of a superior being, I would currently apply, in absentia, to the concepts that such a being ought, in my opinion, to adhere to.

 

[Mr. Hamtastic]

Wrong.
Why would we possibly need to do that?

First, what is the purpose?

Reference, of course.

Second, it is not applicable.
Theists compartmentalize themselves, "I am a Christian" I am a Catholic" "I am a Hindu".
Atheists is something completely different. It is not another subdivision - they simply do not subscribe to those subdivisions that theists made up.

Fair enough, all atheists are the same. Ok.

If there is a Chess Club, and a Go Club and a Scrabble Club, but you don't play any of these games, what club are you required to join?
Is it necessary that you join the "I don't play board games club" or do you simply not join a club associated with board games?

By not joining you are part of the group-not joiners. Lack of a decision is the decision made.

One thing I have noticed that is very often a distinction between atheists and theists (though certainly not universal or a defining character) is that theists seem to feel the need to join a club and atheists do not.
Do you feel the need to be surrounded by people who will reaffirm and shore up your belief?

No, but many do, I don't deny that. I struggle with the classification assigned me, for theist is to broad, as is christian, therefore I have to qualify my beliefs every time I speak of them as being different from what is commonly known. I hate to tell you this, but Atheism, as understood by most, is a lack of belief in a supernatural God. LOL I have heard supposedly competent people say, though not here, "I worship nature, so I'm an atheist" Nature is thus there non-supernatural deity. No problem.