The truth is whatever the truth is. I suspect if you were happy prior to learning the truth, you'll still be happy. If you were frustrated, then you'll still be frustrated.
Atheism and universal loneliness
- Thread starter wynn
- Start date
tchomp tchomp tchomp
Registered Member
I hear Taoism doesn't make true/false statements about the existence of god but rather discusses effective action and living.
I've been saying this all along.
How can there possibly be happiness and meaning in a part of a whole, where the whole has no meaning?
How could holding a truth possibly be a cause of suffering??
You will need to explain how such a thing is even just theoretically possible!
If
1. truth is alignment with how things really are
and
2. suffering is misalignment with how things really are
and
3. happiness is alignment with how things really are
then holding a truth cannot possibly be cause for suffering.
tchomp tchomp tchomp
Registered Member
I know the answer to that Zen koan.
tchomp tchomp tchomp
Registered Member
How familiar are you with the four noble truths?
That will depend on what the truth is about.
Knowing a truth about, say, the chemical constitution of planet Saturnus is most likely not going to contribute anything to a person's happiness or misery, unless they are an astrophysicist or something like that.
On the other hand, knowing the truth about God, or how the self exists, or what the meaning of life is, would on principle make all the difference to a person's happiness or misery.
And, if the "truth" is that there is no god, then I am in the same boat I was when we started this journey.
If.
DaveC426913
Valued Senior Member
Because happiness and meaning are defined by the individual for the individual.
This does not require any overarching meaning or any overarching happiness (which sounds silly when you say it).
DaveC426913
Valued Senior Member
That 'unless' is the crux of the issue, and I'm pleased to see you being the one to utter it.
Do you see how you have demonstrated one example of how any individual has the means to define what gives their lives meaning and makes them happy?
Because everything is relative. Happiness is relative to your circumstances, not the orbit of Venus.
For instance knowing your husband is cheating on you will cause you suffering.
Fraggle Rocker
Staff member
You're just pulling our chains. Surely you don't think "Ignorance is bliss" became such an oft-repeated maxim without millions of people discovering it the hard way? George Michael said it well in "Careless Whisper."wynn said:
Furthermore, it's often been hypothesized by my crowd that religion arose originally because it's too painful to accept the truth that this is all there is.Wham! said:
Of course some of us don't find that painful at all. Personally I find "this" to be awesome, marvelous and inspiring.
Then why does it cause suffering to have it challenged? If you have a truth, how does a challenge affect alignment with how things really are?
To you, perhaps. Knowing whether or not there is a god wouldn't make me happier or more miserable. It might be awe-inspiring or frightening, perhaps, depending on its nature, but to say that our happiness depends on that particular truth is merely another case of you projecting. For example, I am pretty convinced there is no god. I can only take the intellectual position that there might or might not be, but I have a hunch that there isn't, and I live my life as if. That fact in no way makes my life less meaningful, nor does it make my suffering pointless.
To quote someone from another forum:
In this thread it was the atheists who suffered for their truths after I posted the question. I'm pretty sure any truth at all which one holds too tightly to allow contradictory information through will do it if that information keeps coming.
There is an awful lot wrapped up in your word "this" for most people. Much of which drills down to truths which are hard to hold loosely.