The faith they have in atheism is a curious thing to behold, isn't it? "How can you have faith in a lack?" is a curious point indeed.
Atheism and religion
- Thread starter Mr. Hamtastic
- Start date
It's not faith, it's a belief based on evidence.
So faith is not a belief based on evidence? What evidence? The lack of evidence? So you have a belief based on a lack of evidence? Curious.
Faith is belief based on revelation. Atheism relys on evidence such as the measured lack of a prayer effect, the alternative naturalistic explanation for the origin of life, the evidence for lack of anything supernatural. Absense of evidence can be evidence of absense.
Faith is belief in something as fact in the absence of evidence. So, the absence of evidence is evidence for absence? I take it that the absence of evidence for intelligent life in the universe besides ourselves is evidence that there is none? The people at SETI will be crushed.
Wrong. Atheism is nothing more than an involuntary conclusion that there is no God. Any form of evidence that a conclusion is based on has nothing to do with what the conclusion is.
A belief is not "a claim without evidence". A belief is anything anybody involuntarily concludes to be true within the parameters of their own subjective understanding.
A belief is not "a claim without evidence". A belief is anything anybody involuntarily concludes to be true within the parameters of their own subjective understanding.
You are drawing a false conclusion. I said that sometimes absense of evidence is evidence of absense, not that absense of evidence is always evidence of absense. It's a subtle difference.
Obviously, we have not yet searched the entire universe. But, God is supposed to exist and have an influence on us here on Earth. There is little to no evidence of alien life forms on Earth, so we can say that there are probably none here. In the same sense, there is probably no God, due to an absense of any God effect, as far as we know at the present time.
How do you measure lack of effect? What is the independent and dependent variable?
I've never told a theist what they think, just that I think what they think is bullshit.
Wrong, my atheism comes from serious consideration.
The main thing is what i have suspected all along, that is that Atheism does not exist.
This is the root of much of the frustration that is seen in Atheists. They want to deny or maybe debunk organized religion but they cannot even rid themselves of the most basic aspect of belief.
I have never understood either side because i am an Agnostic. Or maybe as an Agnostic i understand more. The problem is that both sides can visualize more than what is already known.
I could never imagine how the most convinced theist could not have moments of doubt. But then what is there to ever be convinced of and what is really perception? The red car you can easily see with your eyes. Is it really red? to you it is but it is not red to every living creature. So there is no real color? To an extent this would be true but specifically the color is added by the process that makes up the mechanism with which the object is viewed.
This is the root of much of the frustration that is seen in Atheists. They want to deny or maybe debunk organized religion but they cannot even rid themselves of the most basic aspect of belief.
I have never understood either side because i am an Agnostic. Or maybe as an Agnostic i understand more. The problem is that both sides can visualize more than what is already known.
I could never imagine how the most convinced theist could not have moments of doubt. But then what is there to ever be convinced of and what is really perception? The red car you can easily see with your eyes. Is it really red? to you it is but it is not red to every living creature. So there is no real color? To an extent this would be true but specifically the color is added by the process that makes up the mechanism with which the object is viewed.
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The question is not so much one of God or a God it is one of creation. Can an Atheist ever say that there was no thought to producing complex organisms? How complex is the human organism? Extremely complex. This is big. Take your thumb and index finger, look at your hand. Bend over and pick up a penny.
So an Atheist will say i dont believe in God? But can they define God? No.
It just all boils down to civilization. What can make the earliest signs of life survive? What can make those same organisms get to the next level? What can make those organisms change what has sustained them? What can make those organisms move beyond what has sustained them to get to the next level?
So an Atheist will say i dont believe in God? But can they define God? No.
It just all boils down to civilization. What can make the earliest signs of life survive? What can make those same organisms get to the next level? What can make those organisms change what has sustained them? What can make those organisms move beyond what has sustained them to get to the next level?
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Simon Anders
Valued Senior Member
So.....
let's have a forum in the Philosophy section that is just atheism vs. theism. All threads that devolve into this 'argument' (scare quotes acknowledged) will be shifted there. All posters who begin to damage threads with this 'argument' will be warned to take their little fight to the atheism vs. theism sub-forum.
I made this suggestion on another thread. Support? Opposition?
let's have a forum in the Philosophy section that is just atheism vs. theism. All threads that devolve into this 'argument' (scare quotes acknowledged) will be shifted there. All posters who begin to damage threads with this 'argument' will be warned to take their little fight to the atheism vs. theism sub-forum.
I made this suggestion on another thread. Support? Opposition?
Why would an atheist attempt to define God? That is an absurd idea.
We're simply atheists because we haven't bought into the God theists are selling us, whatever their definition is at the time.
That makes no ontological sense. You have to buy into a definition to refute it. IOW, you are not saying, this is the wrong definition, you are saying this definition is the God that I reject. If you don't buy into the definition thats an epistemological argument and more agnostic than atheist. In that you would say, I don't know the definition and so I do not have an opinion.
I understand what atheism is perfectly. I am an atheist. Don't presume to tell atheists what atheism is, please.
On theism, no, I don't understand what it is, because every theist that has tried selling it has contradictions, blind faith, or both involved in the description. It might help, if even the major branches of theistic religion concurred on some of the large brushstrokes, like, is there a heaven?
You see, Sam, now that you're demoted, you can lie all you want and no one cares anymore.
