Assisted Suicide!

[duendy]

only the individual should have trhe rights to their suicide....he danger with 'assisted suicides' legally speaking is it is open to abuse. like as happend in Katrina. we heard that medical people there 'assisted' people to die there. oh....right. as far as i am aware racism was thick with the authorities, so why wshould qe believe they were 'helped' andnot murdered...?
same wit situations wit old people and disabled. or anyone. as LONG as they CHOOSE to die that is fine. as soon as the autorities decide, that is wrong!

 

[c20H25N3o]

Of cource i would kill it if i did not have a means to end its misery. Cats are not people.

Jesus said this ...
If any of you has a sheep and it falls into a pit on the Sabbath, will you not take hold of it and lift it out? How much more valuable is a man than a sheep!

Now here we are talking about saving a sheep (I know the context refered to working on the Sabbath but bear with me) that could not save itself. The compassion you said you would show to a cat who had no means to end its own life is born of love for the animal no?. Why should that same love not apply to your fellow man and even more so because 'How much more valuable is a man than a cat?'

Can you see my dilema?

peace

c20

 

[c20H25N3o]

...as LONG as they CHOOSE to die that is fine. as soon as the autorities decide, that is wrong!

Agreed. But the authorities should set rules as to what constitutes a terminal condition else a sick person with a chance of recovery could have an agreement to die extracted from them by an unscrupulous relative who can no longer be bothered to care for them or worse that relative wanted an early inheritance.

peace

c20

 

[duendy]

Agreed. But the authorities should set rules as to what constitutes a terminal condition else a sick person with a chance of recovery could have an agreement to die extracted from them by an unscrupulous relative who can no longer be bothered to care for them or worse that relative wanted an early inheritance.

peace

c20

well it is te doctor's role to diagnose a terminl disease, yes. but i am not speaking of an individual's righ to kill themlseves just because ot terminal disease, but if thewy so choose to do. noone shouldhave the right to prevent it if person wishes to end their life.

 

[audible]

Your getting the words Kill and murder mixed up.

I dont think so.

Murder is illegal killing.
While execution is legal killing.

thats as maybe but they both end a life, be it legal or illegal it's still murder/killing.

Killing is a neutral word it can be both legal and proper or illegal and evil.

killing gets used when refering to any type of killing Ie animals etc, but no one says you murdered a dog, or cow. killing is the general term.

God is a perfect Judge therefore He can never commit murder (illegal killing)

a god cant possibly be perfect, thats a contradiction in terms, and nothing has the right to kill, be it a god or not.

As for me aiding and abetting that just does not make sense?

why not you were telling c20 the exact same thing, I quote

This is a black and white issue. Murder is murder. If you seek to justify murder then you take part in this form of murder

you see.

God does not need my help to end a person’s life.

and again you need to think about what your saying, I quote

And God does use people as implements of His wrath. He used the Jews against the cananites and He used the babylonians against the jews. The first He ordered the second He allowed. So your wrong. I do believe God uses men and allows men to kill when it suits Him.

you see.

 

[Adstar]

Who decides what is illigal killing or not. NOT YOU. If assisted suicide is made legal, which it is in Switzerland for example, then it is not illigal killing. End of discussion.

I never said i did. God decides.

The nations of the world can make whatever laws they deem serves their purpose. Today that seems to be their budgets. Paying for palliative care costs $$$$$ . So they deny proper palliative care and secretly promote euthanasia.

Remember the baby boomers are arriving at old "dependant" age. There are probably more than a few insurance company executives that would love to have old people exterminated. Looks like their desire for maximized returns for share owners investments will be achieved, and lets not forget their fat performance share options. LOL How easy is it for the elite’s to maneuver the masses into demanding what serves the elite’s.

Remember the year of the disabled when they started closing down them "oppressive", "evil" mental asylums and "liberating" the mentally challenged to live free and for filled lives in the general community? LOL What a great way to save big $$$$, close all them costly asylums and turf the poor hopeless ones out on the streets. How easy it is for the elite’s to maneuver the masses into demanding what serves the elite’s.

All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[Adstar]

Audible. your not closely reading what i am saying.


Adstar: As for me aiding and abetting that just does not make sense?

Audible: why not you were telling c20 the exact same thing, I quote


Adstar: This is a black and white issue. Murder is murder. If you seek to justify murder then you take part in this form of murder

Audible: you see.

See what?
Killing is not always Murder. Most nations on earth have legal killing and they call it execution.

When God kills it is a legal execution.
euthanasia carried out by people is Murder an illegal killing. to God

There is no inconsistency in my approach. You can believe or disbelieve in God or His right to end ones life but you cannot claim i am being inconsistent here.



Again.

Adstar: God does not need my help to end a person’s life

Audible:and again you need to think about what your saying, I quote

Adstar:And God does use people as implements of His wrath. He used the Jews against the cananites and He used the babylonians against the jews. The first He ordered the second He allowed. So your wrong. I do believe God uses men and allows men to kill when it suits Him.

Audible:you see.

See what?? read again my first statement and pay attention to the bolded word:

"God does not need my help to end a person’s life"


I stand by that.

Just because God chooses sometimes to use People as tools to carry out a killing, does not mean that He needs people or is dependent on people to carry out a killing.

Therefore still no inconsistency in what i said.

All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[KennyJC]

Prove it.

I thought you might ignore that one...

 

[audible]

adstar was not the aledged great flood, the same as exterminating the jews in the gas chambers, ethnic cleansing. you god is just as guilty of unjust killing, a murderer.
someone does not deserve to die, by you gods hand or his believers, for working on the sabbath, adultry,your children dont deserve to die for talking back etc,,,this is not a just god, this is an evil murderer. and if you follow this evil creature you are aiding and abeting what your god does, which is the same as you seeking to justify murder done by this creature, then you are as good as taking part in this form of murder.
.

 

[Adstar]

Jesus said this ...
If any of you has a sheep and it falls into a pit on the Sabbath, will you not take hold of it and lift it out? How much more valuable is a man than a sheep!

Now here we are talking about saving a sheep (I know the context refered to working on the Sabbath but bear with me) that could not save itself.

Then why use it in relation to euthinasia?

The compassion you said you would show to a cat who had no means to end its own life is born of love for the animal no?. Why should that same love not apply to your fellow man and even more so because 'How much more valuable is a man than a cat?'

Can you see my dilema?

No. The cat is a cat a man is a man. Killing a cat in pain is common sense because it is impractical to take the pain away in any other way but to kill it. If a person is hit by a car and is in great pain on the road do you go and grab a gun and shoot them dead? No you call an ambulance and get them treated for their injuries and pain.



All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[Adstar]

adstar was not the aledged great flood, the same as exterminating the jews in the gas chambers, ethnic cleansing. you god is just as guilty of unjust killing, a murderer.
someone does not deserve to die, by you gods hand or his believers, for working on the sabbath, adultry,your children dont deserve to die for talking back etc,,,this is not a just god, this is an evil murderer. and if you follow this evil creature you are aiding and abeting what your god does, which is the same as you seeking to justify murder done by this creature, then you are as good as taking part in this form of murder.
.

Just statements audible. Your post has no more arguments just statements.

I have answered them before. No point in repeating it.



All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[bconn29]

Adstar

Where should Doctors stop when it comes to life? How far can they go before they step on "god's" toes. For example if some one was in a car accident and would probably die because of it. They get taken to a hospital and they're life was saved. Had they not gotten that care god would take this person. Is not the Dr. going against god's will by saving this life?

 

[Adstar]

Adstar

Where should Doctors stop when it comes to life? How far can they go before they step on "god's" toes. For example if some one was in a car accident and would probably die because of it. They get taken to a hospital and they're life was saved. Had they not gotten that care god would take this person. Is not the Dr. going against god's will by saving this life?

No. God wants us to do all we can do to alleviate suffering. So the doctors are not intervening in Gods will. If God wants someone to die no amount of medical treatment will stop someone dying.

So the doctors are not intervening that are just treating a person and hoping to restore them to a high state of health.

All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[KennyJC]

Prove it.

I'm still waiting Adstar...

 

[c20H25N3o]

Then why use it in relation to euthinasia?





No. The cat is a cat a man is a man. Killing a cat in pain is common sense because it is impractical to take the pain away in any other way but to kill it. If a person is hit by a car and is in great pain on the road do you go and grab a gun and shoot them dead? No you call an ambulance and get them treated for their injuries and pain.



All Praise The Ancient Of Days

Where there is hope of recovery, I completely agree with you, but for the person for whom there is no hope of recovery and the condition will only ever progress to something worse, I think it would be wrong to prosecute someone who assisted that person in finding their eternal rest, if that person had explicitly requested the assistance. There is a time and a place for that to happen. The person assisting would have nothing but the purest motives. Why should they be judged at all for their actions? A clear conscious is a clear conscious.

peace

c20

 

[Streamline]

A question to adstar.

If a person is resurected in heaven for example, is killing then killing him? In a way, that person is not killed because of the resurection, agree?. If that person suffers a lot and has no hope of cure, then killing him will only be a transfer from earth to heaven, so it is not killing anyway only reduction of suffering.

Do you agree with this sort of logic.

 

[Medicine*Woman]

No. God wants us to do all we can do to alleviate suffering. So the doctors are not intervening in Gods will. If God wants someone to die no amount of medical treatment will stop someone dying.

So the doctors are not intervening that are just treating a person and hoping to restore them to a high state of health.

All Praise The Ancient Of Days

*************
M*W: Someone has been noted as saying, "If we're not busy being born, we are busy dying." So, in essence, we're all budy dying -- just at different rates. But, I'd like to think that we're all still busy being born.

 

[Adstar]

A question to adstar.

If a person is resurected in heaven for example, is killing then killing him? In a way, that person is not killed because of the resurection, agree?.

Killing someone has never been ending that persons existence. That is an athiest belief not a Christian one. Killing is ending of a persons stay here in this flesh world. Every human being is eternal no one will ever cease to exist. When a person dies it is only their form of existence that changes.

If that person suffers a lot and has no hope of cure, then killing him will only be a transfer from earth to heaven, so it is not killing anyway only reduction of suffering.

Reducing suffering is a good thing and should be done. Suffering can be reduced without killing. Having no hope of a cure is not a valid reason for ending a life.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[Adstar]

*************
M*W: Someone has been noted as saying, "If we're not busy being born, we are busy dying." So, in essence, we're all budy dying -- just at different rates. But, I'd like to think that we're all still busy being born.

But, I'd like to think that we're all still busy being born.

What are you trying to say? I usually would not bother replying to your posts, but since you are dying and believe your existence will end upon your death why do you say what you say?


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[KennyJC]

“
God decides when we are born and God decides when we die. It is His call.
”


Prove it.

How sad you cannot answer this. The reason for that is simple: You have no proof.