Arguement from EVIL

I must say gentlemen, Moose and Snake, that it is wiser to realize that there is no knowledge of an afterlife, rather than "there is no afterlife". I do not believe there IS, I don't believe there isn't either. I believe that while more sensible, it is just as presumptuous to state that you "know there is no afterlife" as it is to say "you get 72 virgins and an infinite supply of cuban cigars". There is no convincing evidence either way since the nature of consciousness is not understood. Now, if you're just theorizing, that's different and more power to you.. but to say "I know this" about that which you cannot know is not a reasonable position.
 
I didnt say there wasnt.

Perhaps you missed the point of my post which was i don't actually want eternal life and i dont want to burn in hell. Frankly i consider the prospects of doing either as extremely pointless.

Consider this.....

You've been burning in hell for the past 10 millennium.... It wouldn't even be painful anymore and, in my opinion, just an excercise in futility.

The reverse side of the coin.....

You've been living it up with eternal life for the past 10 millennium. Everything that can be said has been said, everything that can be learnt has been learnt. All you can do now is..... well.... nothing. I guess you could rebel in which case you'd be sent to hell to burn for eternity, but eventually you end up in exactly the same position.

My point therefore is that if there is and i have the choice i'd rather just enjoy my life while i have it, then when i'm dead i'd just like to be dead. Do i have that choice or must it be eternal life/eternal damnation?

As you should now be able to see, i have not stated there is no afterlife, (apology accepted in advance), but have merely stated if there is i'd rather not subscribe to it.
 
First of all: Muhbad.

This was the point here:
Originally posted by SnakeLord

Frankly i consider the prospects of doing either as extremely pointless.
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and I was being a bit presumptuous. Moose had said it and I was thinking you had too, my bad. I should only refute someone's claim when I've quoted it directly such that I don't think you said something you didn't.

Oh, and yeah, I got your point the first time, I just thought you'd said "and I know" blah blah. I was wrong, pardon and thanks for accepting the pardons ahead of time.

I mostly agree with you regarding your assessment of a potential afterlife, but I believe it pertinent to note that "time" in the sense that we know it as living people... wouldn't likely be the same in some kind of "afterlife".. which again I find no compelling evidence of, only warm and fuzzy theories of no real merit. The theory of "you're dead and gone...... buh-bye" certainly has merit, but is no fun if you're into the 7394 recyclable and perpetual virgins and all the cool drugs in the afterlife and whatnot...... :)

*giggle*
 
You know......... you've just completely and totally changed my stance on things.

*Praise the Lord*

Bring on the afterlife!! :D
 
You're cracking me up man. Hehe. LOL. Stop it, I'm trying to talk down to the theists here and you're cracking me all up!!!!!!

Oh fuck, dude. Okay. Back to bashing theism.
 
The only problem i can drag from this scenario are Gods rules on certain things.

Im pretty sure if we all sat down getting wildly screwed, smoking pot and watching old episodes of the simpsons we'd be sent to hell pretty swiftly.

As such our only real alternative in our eternal life is to make musical atrocities with our harps, fly about and play frisbee with our halos.

As such i concur that i'd rather just be dead.
 
Originally posted by SnakeLord
Im pretty sure if we all sat down getting wildly screwed, smoking pot and watching old episodes of the simpsons we'd be sent to hell pretty swiftly.
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SHIT!!!!
There goes my Saturday night!

Actually, that would be my version of Heaven.
 
Oh.... sorry One_Raven but you've been a sinner. As such God has a much worse eternal life for you....He asked me to tell you so here goes:

You have been sentenced to an eternity of reading posts made by The Visitor.

Man that's worse than burning forever in my opinion :D
 
Originally posted by one_raven
SHIT!!!!
There goes my Saturday night!

Actually, that would be my version of Heaven.
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What the hell, I'm in. :) Does one of you guys have a pool table?
 
Originally posted by wesmorris
What the hell, I'm in. :) Does one of you guys have a pool table?
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Sorry, man.
But the "getting wildly screwed" part leaves you out of my plans.
You can come by for weed and The Simpsons afterwards, though.
I have the first season on DVD and I just picked up a quarter ounce of some really prime Hydro a few days ago.

Sorry, no pool table.
Left it at my old house.
I do have a grill and some Italian sauages (both hot and sweet) to bat down those munchies.
 
Originally posted by SnakeLord
Oh.... sorry One_Raven but you've been a sinner. As such God has a much worse eternal life for you....He asked me to tell you so here goes:

You have been sentenced to an eternity of reading posts made by The Visitor.

Man that's worse than burning forever in my opinion :D
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When is his "visit" going to be over, anyway?
Isn't it time to go back home yet? :D
 
Now i think about it It would have been better to say that i think there is none(afterlife), sorry, i was not conciously thinking about that as much as i should have at the time.

Restate- I believe there is no afterlife, I admit I do not KNOW. Sorry for that
 
Did any of you see that simpsons episode where god speaks to him??

I saw, heard, experienced and witnessed God so i guess that makes it irrefutable fact because it was on the simpsons?

I don't see how anyone can say no to that....

Ok, it's merely based on the ideas of a writer but so is everything else religious folk regard as undeniable fact!!

GOD EXISTS! Bow your heads you incompetent fools! :D
 
“The existence of evil in the world does not logically exclude the existance of God, but such evil makes it extremely improbably that God exists.”
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Ok, lets look at this from another angle, what do you mean the evil in the world does not exclude the existence of God?

In the bible it states that God breathed life into a constructed body, and the body became a living soul. The living soul was instructed by God, as to how to conduct his life, properly, without sin or unlawful behavior. This is clearly Gods involvement, from there on we know that the living soul broke the law, not because of Gods involvement, because HE, ADAM, decided there could be no possible harm in wanting to be on the same level as God. In other words Adam became selfish, and was tempted to envy the knowledge of his maker, and thus wanted the same knowledge, which would mean he didn’t need God. This act includes envy, lust and greed, ignorance, and it is these traits that cause evil to manifest in this world.
So how is God included in evil, from the statement of the bible(or any other scripture).

From this arguement many(I included) believe that it is quite unreasonable and illogical to believe in God as we know him.
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I believe that you used the term, all-powerful, all-knowing, all-good, to demonstrate the idea that God cannot be these things, if there is evil in the world, as opposed to Him actually having these attributes. That’s fair enough, it’s yours and others opinion, but can you tell me what it means to be, all-powerful, all-good and all-knowing, do you have a model of that. If you cannot, then what is the use of your above belief. If you were searching to buy a car, would you buy one purley on the basis that is was all-good, or would you be curious as to what all-good means.

You say it is , “illogical to believe in God as we know him”, who is “we”, don’t you mean you, what do you know about God, that you have come to this conclusion.

Love

Jan Ardena.
 
hmmm. Now if God doesnt have those attributes, then can he(it) be considered God?

I was working off the definition of God that has been given throughout history.

How can you argue this? do you not see the point being made? why dont you stop trying to belittle my arguement and instead try to reply with a proper arguement, honestly i would like to hear what you have to say, especially if it is an honest attempt to answer the question and not beat around the bush by trying to redefine God and make it look as thought somehow I am mistaken for actually listing the attributes that define the concept of God, realistically I can not cover everyone's notion of a supreme being, but if it does not have the capacity for being all powerfull then can we still call it God??

I am not trying to twist around the idea of God, I am instead asking questions that relate directly to the perceived attributes that a God, by definition would need to possess.
 
Originally posted by MooseKnuckle
hmmm. Now if God doesnt have those attributes, then can he(it) be considered God?

I was working off the definition of God that has been given throughout history. I am not trying to twist around the idea of God, I am instead asking questions that relate directly to the perceived attributes that a God, by definition would need to possess.
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If you really are asking about the attributes of god, then you'll find them all in the Quran. They are 99 attributes. The site below gives the attribute, the meaning, and the verse of the Quran were the word was found.

http://www.pearls.org/names/99names.html
 
Thanks for the site, those are basically the attributes that i would believe to be held by a supreme being. It is quite obvious that I could not list them all so I sumed them up by describing God as all powerfull, all knowing.....etc
 
Originally posted by MooseKnuckle
do you not see the point being made?
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Yes, it is that God existing as All-powerful, knowledgeable and good, cannot logically exist, because evil exists.
…why dont you stop trying to belittle my arguement and instead try to reply with a proper arguement, honestly i would like to hear what you have to say, especially if it is an honest attempt to answer the question
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You said quote, “The existence of evil in the world does not logically exclude the existance of God, but such evil makes it extremely improbably that God exists. Statement”
How have you come to this conclusion?
….and make it look as thought somehow I am mistaken for actually listing the attributes that define the concept of God,
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The fact that you have listed the attributes, and then come to the above conclusion, under the guise of logic, can only mean you haven’t looked properly into your claim
….realistically I can not cover everyone's notion of a supreme being, but if it does not have the capacity for being all powerful then can we still call it God??
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It has nothing to do with peoples notions of a Supreme Being, but what a Supreme Being is, and whether such an entity could exist and be excluded from evil, simoulneosly. To do this you have to go to the sources of all information, which also is the fuel behind everyones notion, to come to your conclusion, and as far as I can tell, you haven’t.
I am not trying to twist around the idea of God, I am instead asking questions that relate directly to the perceived attributes that a God, by definition would need to possess.
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What is/are the source(s) for your definition?

Love

Jan Ardena.
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Re: Re: Arguement from EVIL

Originally posted by Jan Ardena
Yes, it is that God existing as All-powerful, knowledgeable and good, cannot logically exist, because evil exists.
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Jan, there is not contradiction in the coexistance of evil and all powerfull. It's a good questions though.

You see, evil existance is not a permanent state. The god of respite and patience allows for some time for evil to exist to give it a chance to rehabilitate and come in terms with it's good. If god didn't allow evil to exist by either condemning it right away then he would loose the attribute of being mercifull and compassionate.

At the end though all scores will make perfect sense and everyone will get what they deserve and they are not going to cry, we didn't get a second chance.
 
Originally posted by one_raven
Sorry, man.
But the "getting wildly screwed" part leaves you out of my plans.
You can come by for weed and The Simpsons afterwards, though.
I have the first season on DVD and I just picked up a quarter ounce of some really prime Hydro a few days ago.

Sorry, no pool table.
Left it at my old house.
I do have a grill and some Italian sauages (both hot and sweet) to bat down those munchies.
Click to expand...

I was thinking the "wildly screwed" part was about how fucked up we'd get from all the pot and alchohol...

I got little punkins, so what will be my pool table / bar room is now filled with toys. Okay, well I've got an X-box I can bring, but I got no games worth mentioning cuz as far as I can tell Halo is the only reason I bought the damn thing. :)

I'm putting the party plans on hold until my youngest is 5 at least. :)
 
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