Are you convinced?

[Cris]

Lg,

I have met many people (even from the scientific community) who have re-established themselves in religion

And what percentage is that compared to those who don’t? Bear in mind that if your friends are as irrational as you then your statistic doesn’t mean very much.

More reliable independent statistics indicate that the better educated and the more intelligent tend towards non-belief. Our micro-community is hardly an indicator of the whole world but the site does have a somewhat scientific bias and our limited stats of some who have definitely given up their religious beliefs and the zero count of those who went the other way is consistent with what would be expected by those who can exercise critical thought.

 

[lightgigantic]

Cris

And what percentage is that compared to those who don’t?

Probably the same as those established in theism - difficult to say really since the attempt to gather such stats in an objective fashion would be a difficult task that would require lots of money

Bear in mind that if your friends are as irrational as you then your statistic doesn’t mean very much.

the famous "wild card" of the atheist

.....Yes its true, I live in a cave and I only interact with 3 other people

More reliable independent statistics indicate that the better educated and the more intelligent tend towards non-belief.

Since it is a recent trend it tends to confirm that atheistic doctrine has been instituitionalized - just like when theistic thought was institutionalized there were more theistic intelligent people - it says nothing about atheism/theism vs intelligence - it says plenty about how mundane knowledge related to profession and earning a living is distributed within society however

Our micro-community is hardly an indicator of the whole world but the site does have a somewhat scientific bias and our limited stats of some who have definitely given up their religious beliefs and the zero count of those who went the other way is consistent with what would be expected by those who can exercise critical thought.

And why would they want to come back here to let you know that they changed their mind - particularly if they view atheism as an embaressing reminder of their immaturity as adults?

 

[Cris]

lg,

Yes its true, I live in a cave and I only interact with 3 other people

Ah ha, just as I thought.

lg,

Since it is a recent trend it tends to confirm that atheistic doctrine has been instituitionalized

There is an atheist doctrine? There are atheist institutions? I seem to have missed these. Details, details, please.

lg,

And why would they want to come back here to let you know that they changed their mind

The well known theist arrogance would almost guarantee it.

 

[lightgigantic]

lg,

There is an atheist doctrine? There are atheist institutions? I seem to have missed these. Details, details, please.

yes - you find it in all aspects of popular culture - don't think you have to scan the atheist section in the library to determine what the current situation is - if you read theistic writing (which I am sure you haven't and won't) from previous times you can determine that there was a whole approach to spiritual life that is practically vacant at the moment

lg,

The well known theist arrogance would almost guarantee it.

I guess they are not duty bound to reinforce your stereotypes

lg,

Ah ha, just as I thought.

certainly it makes it easier to deal with theists when they bend to your preconceived ideals don't you think?

 

[Cris]

lg,

yes - you find it in all aspects of popular culture - don't think you have to scan the atheist section in the library to determine what the current situation is - if you read theistic writing (which I am sure you haven't and won't) from previous times you can determine that there was a whole approach to spiritual life that is practically vacant at the moment

But that isn't atheist doctrine or institutions, that's simple common sense realization that theism isn't relevant to real life.

 

[lightgigantic]

lg,

But that isn't atheist doctrine or institutions, that's simple common sense realization that theism isn't relevant to real life.

either that or your tentative claim is indicative of the ignorance responsible for many problems of this world that look like they are going to get worse before they get better.

 

[Cris]

lg,

either that or your tentative claim is indicative of the ignorance responsible for many problems of this world that look like they are going to get worse before they get better.

Let's just hope that there isn't a religious revival of any type otherwise we'd have an even worse disaster. The barbaric nature of Islam using modern technology is already threatening world destruction.

 

[lightgigantic]

lg,

Let's just hope that there isn't a religious revival of any type otherwise we'd have an even worse disaster. The barbaric nature of Islam using modern technology is already threatening world destruction.

then you could argue, as many muslims have done both on this site and in the greater world at large, that that is not the actual practice of religion.

And that s the way it seems to be heading - a religious revival - befor e th e world trade center nobody gave a damn about the koran and then suddenly its on the best sellers list - everyone (even atheists) wants to know what the koran is about (how much did you know about the koran before theworld trade centre?) - it has even rejuvenated muslims in inspectingthe theistic basis for their faith - in many places it appears that islam is undergoing a revival, or more specifically a reformation - nothing like a controversy to get people interested in religion - kind of indicates where we are at as conditioned souls

 

[Sarkus]

There is an atheist doctrine? There are atheist institutions? I seem to have missed these. Details, details, please.

yes - you find it in all aspects of popular culture - don't think you have to scan the atheist section in the library to determine what the current situation is - if you read theistic writing (which I am sure you haven't and won't) from previous times you can determine that there was a whole approach to spiritual life that is practically vacant at the moment

LG - this doesn't provide the necessary details to find this atheist doctrine.
Unless of course you mean that atheist doctrine is merely the absence of theistic doctrine???

Please provide DETAILS as to this atheist doctrine that you claim there is - or these atheist institutions!!

 

[lightgigantic]

LG - this doesn't provide the necessary details to find this atheist doctrine.
Unless of course you mean that atheist doctrine is merely the absence of theistic doctrine???

Please provide DETAILS as to this atheist doctrine that you claim there is - or these atheist institutions!!

its obvious - communities, even many apparently theistic communities, are centred around economic development and sense gratification - atheism means "this life is all I have got"

 

[Sarkus]

its obvious - communities, even many apparently theistic communities, are centred around economic development and sense gratification - atheism means "this life is all I have got"

It is NOT obvious - and this does NOT answer the question.

Where is this atheist doctrine?

Doctrine, from Latin doctrina, means "a code of beliefs", "a body of teachings" or "instructions", taught principles or positions, as the body of teachings in a branch of knowledge or belief system.

atheism means "this life is all I have got"

LOL! Not to be too blunt, but bollox!!

Atheism is merely a lack of belief in god(s).

Now please tell us all where the atheist doctrine is?
If it so obvious - TELL US!!

You are currently doing nothing short of displaying your ignorance and displaying your stereotypical and biased view of atheism.

 

[baumgarten]

Hmm. Objectivism? Secular humanism? Existentialism? These are all "atheist doctrines," in a sense, but none of them have really been institutionalized. (There is some kind of institute for objectivism, though.)

 

[Sarkus]

Hmm. Objectivism? Secular humanism? Existentialism? These are all "atheist doctrines," in a sense, but none of them have really been institutionalized. (There is some kind of institute for objectivism, though.)

While these may be atheistic world-views, they are not of themselves the "atheist doctrine" as LG suggested. There is NO "atheist doctrine" that I am aware of, and none as yet have been put forward by LG.

 

[Sputnik]

I've been here since 1/1/2000 and have seen several openly state they have turned away from religion because of this site and the debates here. And I have been personally thanked via private PMs numerous times by others.

I have not witnessed a single instance when a non-believer has openly stated they have a dopted a religious belief because of these debates.

I have been wondering, why Sciforums actually have a religious forum -
now I am beginning to understand

 

[baumgarten]

While these may be atheistic world-views, they are not of themselves the "atheist doctrine" as LG suggested. There is NO "atheist doctrine" that I am aware of, and none as yet have been put forward by LG.

I concur. The singular tenet of atheism is that there is no God, and any implications to this statement further than immediate depend on your reasons for concluding that there is no God. These reasons vary wildly.

LG is probably complaining about the lack of spirituality in modern society. Western civilization is much more materialistic than its ancestors as we remember them. "Luckily," others are feeling the void as well, and as a result we are now "blessed" with the New Age.

 

[lightgigantic]

Sarkus

“ Originally Posted by lightgigantic
atheism means "this life is all I have got" ”

LOL! Not to be too blunt, but bollox!!

Atheism is merely a lack of belief in god(s).

Now please tell us all where the atheist doctrine is?
If it so obvious - TELL US!!

You are currently doing nothing short of displaying your ignorance and displaying your stereotypical and biased view of atheism.

I guess I am not up on the plurality of contemporary society - there are really atheists out there who think that have a "next life"


Please give more details

 

[Cris]

lg,

there are really atheists out there who think that have a "next life"

Agreed. One doesn't have to believe in gods to believe in reincarnation for example.

However, most atheists also tend to be materialists because of the same reasoning - absence of evidence.

The term bright correctly encompasses the sentiment - a naturalistic world view.

 

[lightgigantic]

Cris,

Agreed. One doesn't have to believe in gods to believe in reincarnation for example.

Buddhists merely have an impersonal concept of god - in other words they view transcendence as bereft of variety - but regardless on whatever way you want to argue it, the function of nirvana fulfills the same purpose as the eternal abode for a theist, and their instructions that illuminate the path to nirvana (and their associated congregations) are remarkably similar to the processes advocated in other religions, so they are not actually atheists in the strict sense - they even get invited to inter-faith dialouge conferences, unlike any atheist

However, most atheists also tend to be materialists because of the same reasoning - absence of evidence.

(insert analogy about highschool drop out and electron)

The term bright correctly encompasses the sentiment - a naturalistic world view.

natural world view naturally means many different things for many different people, and to monopolize the term requires more than selling old wine in new bottles

 

[Cris]

lg,

I wasn't thinking of budhists. Many people have a vast variety of imaginative supernaturalistic fantasies, and the reincarnation concept seems quite common.

You have no evidence of any type, the drop out analogy was never valid.

And a naturalistic world view is in direct contrast to the religionist supernatural view. Did you not understand that?

 

[lightgigantic]

Cris

I wasn't thinking of budhists. Many people have a vast variety of imaginative supernaturalistic fantasies, and the reincarnation concept seems quite common.

I can almost guarentee that any atheist who advocates reincarnation is heavily influenced by buddhism - the fact they may speculate and offe a half baked variety would simply put them on the level of any spiritual practioner who likes to speculate

You have no evidence of any type, the drop out analogy was never valid.

The moment you bring in the word "valid" the question arises "valid to who?" - which is where the dropout vs electron comes into play

And a naturalistic world view is in direct contrast to the religionist supernatural view. Did you not understand that?

But its not really "naturalistic" becaus ethere ar emany things inthe natural world that escape its ability to view