Are We Going to War With Iran?
- Thread starter Bowser
- Start date
I'm sure you would hate the same regime if it existed in your country, you just can't be bothered to care about other countries.
Very insightful.
http://www.veteranstoday.com/2012/01/30/is-israel-on-the-road-to-self-destruction/
Is Israel on the Road to Self-Destruction?
Our current leaders have made Israeli Judaism just a post-traumatic syndrome, while they lead us to self-destruction.
Because what she wrote is so important, and in my view ought to be read by all peoples of all faiths everywhere who want to understand why the Zionist state is what it is, I am going to quote her at some length.
Israelis mark Holocaust Memorial Day in Jerusalem
She wrote:
The Holocaust is the primary way Israel defines itself. And that definition is narrow and ailing in the extreme, because the Holocaust is remembered only in a very specific way, as are its lessons.
It has long been used to justify the existence and the necessity of the state, and has been mentioned in the same breath as proof that the state is under a never-ending existential threat.
The Holocaust is the sole prism through which our leadership, followed by society at large, examines every situation.
This prism distorts reality and leads inexorably to a forgone conclusion… that all our lives are simply one long Shoah (experience of persecution and extermination – my amplification not Merav’s).
The ‘Hitlers’ are always there:
Just a week ago, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said for the nth time that there is no shortage of those who want to exterminate us completely. In other words, there is no lack of reasons to continue to reinforce the fear of the Holocaust – which, according to his father, historian Benzion Netanyahu, has never ended.
The holocaust, forgetaboutit!
Murder, rape, torture, on a scale that compares to Stalin. But let's bury all the evidence, there might be some political advantage?
How do we know what the current regime is like, the western media distorts and lies about everything. Look what they said about the Qaddafi regime, right? All that was nothing but lies, who knows what living in Iran is actually like, I don't. I don't believe a thing that comes out of American media, my condolences if you a dumb enough to buy what they are selling.
What does it matter? I hate the current regime. I'm an anarchist, I despise any central authority. The only legitimate government authority is people representing themselves and ruling themselves locally. Laws which affect people nationally can be made nationally, but those are in fact very few, and should be made with the authority and input of representatives of the differing local authorities. I don't give a shit about the way people are governed now, it's illegitimate.
And you're right, it's none of my business, I can't be bothered other than to protest it, to say it's imperialistic and to say it's done for nothing but power and money. The founding father of my country taught me that. I don't want some other nation getting involved in my business, why should I meddle in theirs? When people scream and holler that they are victims, guess what? That's exactly what they become. Did our founding fathers decide they were victims, or did they take up arms and decide to do something about it?
I really have no idea what is going on in that country, because I am absolutely sure, with out a shadow of a doubt, that our corporate media, and their theoretically controlled media are both nearly useless when it comes to reporting on condition in country and about the government. They both have interests which are not in line with spreading truth to the people. The two greatest things of value to humanity at this time in our history are freedom, and truth, and they are the two things of the rarest quantity. I feel so lucky to have at least one in some measure. My condolences that you have neither. Can't say it wasn't offered to you.
links? lol Or were you talking about the Israelis?
One never knows, but it's fundamentally unjust to impose assumptions on our "enemies" without having all the facts on the table, just like it would be fundamentally unjust for someone else to do the same thing to us, or our grandchildren. I used to be seriously concerned that the Iranian leadership had a suicidal intent to bring down Israel and its allies at any cost, but now I very much doubt that- the cost of war has made various parties rethink things in ways I never expected before. Even if the Iranian leadership has suicidal delusions, I don't buy that the people they govern share the same thinking, nor would those people be prepared to sacrifice their futures for the sake of a messianic ideology. These recent sanctions have a serious bite to them, and it's most definitely best not to mess with that in favour of unforeseeable consequences, especially if Russia and China are finally cooperating.
If there's going to be a war, let Iran be the one to initiate it and it will make all the difference in the world as far as alignments and the will to fight. If Israel makes the first move it will have a negligible impact, involve a heavy sacrifice, and ignite a truly devastating clash of civilizations. They will lose Western support and be held seriously accountable for any consequences, and no one can say what the Arab world's reaction will be either. Go the other way with sanctions, and if Iran initiates an attack, the Arab world will almost certainly fight on Israel's side against a mutual enemy along with strong Western support, and Iran will get its ass handed to it. No one outside a very tiny circle of paranoid Iranian leaders would be interested in seeing an Iranian nuclear arsenal and a consequent arms race or MAD scenario. Even amongst said paranoid Iranian leaders, I've realized that our rhetoric and history of involvement in the region has done a great deal to fuel that paranoia, and that's not even counting the days when British Petroleum ruled the land.
We all know what's going on there, we saw the freaking Youtube, OK? And the founders were not isolationists.How do we know what the current regime is like, the western media distorts and lies about everything. Look what they said about the Qaddafi regime, right? All that was nothing but lies, who knows what living in Iran is actually like, I don't. I don't believe a thing that comes out of American media, my condolences if you a dumb enough to buy what they are selling.
What does it matter? I hate the current regime. I'm an anarchist, I despise any central authority. The only legitimate government authority is people representing themselves and ruling themselves locally. Laws which affect people nationally can be made nationally, but those are in fact very few, and should be made with the authority and input of representatives of the differing local authorities. I don't give a shit about the way people are governed now, it's illegitimate.
And you're right, it's none of my business, I can't be bothered other than to protest it, to say it's imperialistic and to say it's done for nothing but power and money. The founding father of my country taught me that. I don't want some other nation getting involved in my business, why should I meddle in theirs? When people scream and holler that they are victims, guess what? That's exactly what they become. Did our founding fathers decide they were victims, or did they take up arms and decide to do something about it?
I really have no idea what is going on in that country, because I am absolutely sure, with out a shadow of a doubt, that our corporate media, and their theoretically controlled media are both nearly useless when it comes to reporting on condition in country and about the government. They both have interests which are not in line with spreading truth to the people. The two greatest things of value to humanity at this time in our history are freedom, and truth, and they are the two things of the rarest quantity. I feel so lucky to have at least one in some measure. My condolences that you have neither. Can't say it wasn't offered to you.
I agree, we have to let these other options play themselves out.
I guess I missed that one. Sorry. You know what Arthur says about the reliability of Youtube.
And yeah, the founders were isolationists. Unless foreign nations directly assaulted American freedom to interact with other nations commercially w/o interference, than pretty much, yes, we minded our own business.
Ummm. . . How many troops did we send to the Napoleonic wars? I forgot, remind me again?
You would have thought we should have sent some, what greater cause was there than the freedom of our closest, nearest and dearest family members?
Bollocks. Be specific.
They are a theocratic dictatorship who prevents it's citizens from representative government and suppresses such movements with secret police and torture. Go to human rights watch and read the testimonies.
Thanks for proving my point.
Iran threatens to try to cut off supply of all Middle East oil
You're welcome.
And how about this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monroe_Doctrine
The US prevented European countries from interfering with independent South American states. Thomas Jefferson approved of the Monroe Doctrine, and stated that he knew it could potentially lead to war.
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Do you find the following countries as repugnant?
Israel, Iraq, Brazil, Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, USA, Egypt, Colombia, Vietnam, Yemen, and Libya.