Are we approaching a "golden age of atheism" in America?

KennyJC

Registered Senior Member
David Mills, author of the book "Atheist Universe," delivers a rousing pep-talk titled "10 Reasons America is Approaching a Golden Age of Atheism."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrBxKFCHUpo

1 - Technology has removed an Isolation.

Whereas before there were 3 main tv stations which blacked out atheism, now there are 100's of tv stations offering other points of view. Then you have things like YouTube, internet forums, myspace etc etc which removes cultural isolation and give atheism more exposure and even more acceptance than when it was kept quiet.

2 - Explosion of atheist books.

There have been more books in the last several years promoting atheism than there has been in the last XX number of years. Not only that, but there are many books promoting atheism in the Amazon top 100. David makes the point that his book would never have been published years ago because he was not a nobel prize winner like Bertrand Russell... especially if it's about atheism. But it is possible today.

3 - Science has eliminated our "God of the gaps".

As science progresses more and more, religions have less of a place to say "God did it".

4 - Failure of creation science and intelligent design.

It will never make any progress towards being called science, will never be accepted accepted by scientific consensus and will never be in text books in schools (except of course religious schools). The longer this failure continues, the more the benefit for atheism.

5 - Even believers abandoning literal interpretation of the bible.

Once upon a time believers assumed the bible was infallible. Now they don't believe in the old testament anymore, and perhaps slowly the same thing will happen with the new testament. If we can get them to agree that it's just a story, just metaphoric, then once again this will help reduce religiousity and help atheism.

6 - Public disgust with god driven politics.

More people are becoming revolted with things like vetoing stem cell research for religious reason, going to war because god/jesus told him to, the evangelical welcoming of global warming to hasten the arrival of jesus... and in general, 8 years of Bush. This can only help the cause in the population seeking more rational leadership.

7 - Less tolerant with descrimination of gays, women and african americans.

With the church and fundamentalist religious people usually being the last to remain descriminatory of these groups, it's showing the rest of us how bad religion can be for intolerance of certain groups. Eventually gays will be allowed to marry (at least outside of church), and once again the church loses touch with the rest of society.

8 - The rise of muslim fundamentalism provides a parallel between muslim fundamentalism and christian fundamentalism.

People look to what's going on in the Middle East and see how ridiculous those people are. Being so fanatic over things that don't exist, fighting over a holy book. People are realizing that christians are just as idiotic (and once upon a time just as violent). Christians too froth at the mouth over dumb shit things that rational people can see is pointless. Atheism as a result will inevitably grow the more people see christians and muslims acting like morons.

9 - More people are seeking higher education.

Education can only help the cause of atheism since most credible places of education will not enforce superstition, religion and supernatural bullshit. It teaches people to think rationally, it exposes people to more ideas etc etc. Academics, scientists and probably even students at higher education level, have less chance of believing in any kind of god.

10 - Scholars are beginning to realize that Jesus never existed.

The common theme from scholars is that maybe Jesus did actually exist, but of course they reject all the miracle stuff and son of god thing. But more are becoming aware that there is no evidence whatsoever that he was a historical figure. It only takes these scholars to read what the early christian writers wrote to realize that they never even mentioned anything of an Earthly Jesus; instead they believed in a heavenly Jesus. Stands to reason that the writers later changed the idea to an Earthly Jesus and that would explain the burst of writings on an Earthly Jesus many years later.
 
Its Kalyug.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kali_Yuga

Most interpretations of Hindu scriptures believe that earth is currently in Kali Yuga, though others believe that earth is now at the beginning of Dvapara Yuga. Hindus believe that human civilization degenerates spiritually throughout the Kali Yuga: it is mostly referred to as the Dark Age, mainly because people are the furthest possible from God. The "Kali" of Kali Yuga means "strife, discord, quarrel, or contention."

Rulers will become unreasonable: they will levy taxes unfairly. Rulers will no longer see it their duty to promote spirituality or to protect their subjects: they will become a danger to the world. People will start migrating seeking countries where wheat and barley form the staple food source.

[edit] In relation to people's relationships

Source: Mahabharata, Vana Parva, Section CLXXXIX[3]

Avarice and wrath will be common, men will openly display animosity towards each other. Ignorance of Dharma will occur. Lust will be viewed as being socially acceptable. People will have thoughts of murder for no justification, and they will see nothing wrong with that mind-set.

People will be inclined to follow false sciences. Family murders will also occur. People will see those who are helpless as easy targets and remove everything from them.

Many other unwanted changes will occur. The right hand will deceive the left and the left the right. Men with false reputation of learning will teach the Truth and the old will betray the senselessness of the young, and the young will betray the dotage of the old. Cowards will have the reputation of bravery and the brave will be enervated cowards. People will not trust a single person in the world, not even their immediate family. Even husband and wife will find contempt in each other.

In the Kali Yuga even pre-teenage girls will get pregnant. The primary cause will be the social acceptance of sexual intercourse as being the central requirement of life.

It is believed that sin will increase exponentially, whilst virtue will fade and cease to flourish. People will take vows only to break them soonafter.

Alongside death and famine being everywhere, men will have lustful thoughts and so will women.People will without reason destroy trees and gardens. As previously mentioned, men will murder. There will be no respect for animals, and also meat eating will start.

People will become addicted to intoxicating drinks. Men will find their jobs stressful and will go to retreats to escape their work.

Gurus will no longer be respected and their students will attempt to injure them. Their teachings will be insulted and followers of Kama will wrest control of the mind from all human beings.

As the sin increases exponentially, so will the incidence of divine justice and wrath.
 
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I wouldn't say that everyone's becoming atheist, but there does seem to be a move away from organized religion. Many people just practice to the extent of what they believe. They may believe in God, but don't think it is necessary to go to church or not eat meat on Fridays or whatever. They do what they want I guess is what I'm saying.
 
Church leaders are so out of touch with reality that prospective parishioners are starting to take notice.
 
Sam:

Well that is an argument that is impossible to defeat... If I say that science is not false, then you will say that's because I'm living in sin. If I say that it's not a bad thing to be "further from god" then you'll say that's because I'm living in sin. If I say that most of the things you listed are things more common amongst religious circles, you'll say that's because I'm living in sin.

I also found it ironic that you say "family murders" will increase when honor killings are rampant in Indian culture.
 
I don't think everyone is going to become atheist, but it certainly is becoming more accepted. I do think that many people are going to move away from organized religion. Actually, many already have left organized religion.
 
David Mills, author of the book "Atheist Universe," delivers a rousing pep-talk titled "10 Reasons America is Approaching a Golden Age of Atheism."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrBxKFCHUpo

1 - Technology has removed an Isolation.

Whereas before there were 3 main tv stations which blacked out atheism, now there are 100's of tv stations offering other points of view. Then you have things like YouTube, internet forums, myspace etc etc which removes cultural isolation and give atheism more exposure and even more acceptance than when it was kept quiet.

2 - Explosion of atheist books.

There have been more books in the last several years promoting atheism than there has been in the last XX number of years. Not only that, but there are many books promoting atheism in the Amazon top 100. David makes the point that his book would never have been published years ago because he was not a nobel prize winner like Bertrand Russell... especially if it's about atheism. But it is possible today.
Simply having ideas out there won't mean people will accept them

3 - Science has eliminated our "God of the gaps".

As science progresses more and more, religions have less of a place to say "God did it".

4 - Failure of creation science and intelligent design.

It will never make any progress towards being called science, will never be accepted accepted by scientific consensus and will never be in text books in schools (except of course religious schools). The longer this failure continues, the more the benefit for atheism.
How so? You can explain anything with religion. Intelligent design is also an actual scientific theory.

5 - Even believers abandoning literal interpretation of the bible.

Once upon a time believers assumed the bible was infallible. Now they don't believe in the old testament anymore, and perhaps slowly the same thing will happen with the new testament. If we can get them to agree that it's just a story, just metaphoric, then once again this will help reduce religiousity and help atheism.
I don't think it was ever intended to be taken literally

6 - Public disgust with god driven politics.

More people are becoming revolted with things like vetoing stem cell research for religious reason, going to war because god/jesus told him to, the evangelical welcoming of global warming to hasten the arrival of jesus... and in general, 8 years of Bush. This can only help the cause in the population seeking more rational leadership.
What does religion have to do with rationality?

7 - Less tolerant with descrimination of gays, women and african americans.

With the church and fundamentalist religious people usually being the last to remain descriminatory of these groups, it's showing the rest of us how bad religion can be for intolerance of certain groups. Eventually gays will be allowed to marry (at least outside of church), and once again the church loses touch with the rest of society.
What does this have to do with religion? I'm agnostic and I do not like homosexuality.

9 - More people are seeking higher education.

Education can only help the cause of atheism since most credible places of education will not enforce superstition, religion and supernatural bullshit. It teaches people to think rationally, it exposes people to more ideas etc etc. Academics, scientists and probably even students at higher education level, have less chance of believing in any kind of god.
Therefore you are saying that to be a scientist, you must be an atheist.

10 - Scholars are beginning to realize that Jesus never existed.

The common theme from scholars is that maybe Jesus did actually exist, but of course they reject all the miracle stuff and son of god thing. But more are becoming aware that there is no evidence whatsoever that he was a historical figure. It only takes these scholars to read what the early christian writers wrote to realize that they never even mentioned anything of an Earthly Jesus; instead they believed in a heavenly Jesus. Stands to reason that the writers later changed the idea to an Earthly Jesus and that would explain the burst of writings on an Earthly Jesus many years later.

There's no evidence Constantine existed, nor Nero, nor Alexander, nor Napoleon
 
Sam:

Well that is an argument that is impossible to defeat... If I say that science is not false, then you will say that's because I'm living in sin. If I say that it's not a bad thing to be "further from god" then you'll say that's because I'm living in sin. If I say that most of the things you listed are things more common amongst religious circles, you'll say that's because I'm living in sin.

I also found it ironic that you say "family murders" will increase when honor killings are rampant in Indian culture.

Since all the rest has been discussed ad nauseum, I will only respond to the last. Ask ANY cop how they investigate a murder. Or a rape.
 
There has been a systematic endeavour, ongoing for centuries, to destroy the concept of faith, and to alienate God from His creation. The perpetrators have used various tools to achieve this malevolent goal, such as Communism, Darwinism, Nazism, etc. There have been more covert means of destroying faith as well, such as: secretly funding/arming religious fundamentalists; slyly removing its (religion's) influence from schools (thereby raising kids who, generation after generation, constantly know less and less about religion); introducing bizarre concepts of "secularism", and demanding the separation between Church and State; and by infiltrating strictly religious holidays/events, substituting concrete materialism in place of faith, prayer, and worship (such as the embarrassing commercialization of Christmas, and the nearly complete removal of Prophet Jesus from the entire celebration). Once the generation of the test subjects have become infected, the malevolent goal is assuredly on its march to accomplishment. Generations which follow will undoubtedly know less about religion and, quite frankly, won't care much for it, either. They'll be taught to brush off religion as a concept of the past - to regard it as something modern civilization should eschew, if progression is to occur.

Of course, all of these ideas are horrifically wrong, and their death tolls are readily accessible. The entire purpose of creating a state of atheists is for a single party to easily attain ultimate, unadulterated control of a nation's wealth, resources, and manpower. The atheist's apathy is highly exploitable, which elite Americans have consistently demonstrated. You may argue, "the evangelicals are supporting the neoconservative ideologies, not us (atheists)", but that viewpoint doesn't hold much merit. The self-described "evangelicals" in the U.S. are as far from religion and God as their atheistic counterparts. They don't know the first thing about their blessed Bible, and have placed all of their manipulatable faith into the State. It sure is a sad sight to behold. The "golden age" of atheism, uncoincidentally, coincides directly with America's rapid, ongoing decline, and foreseeable collapse.

Don't say I didn't tell you so.

Kadark the Emphatic
 
KennyJC I understand your frustration with religion sometimes, I won't deny stupid things sometimes happen because of it. But as much as I consider myself an agnostic/atheist, I do not want it to go away. It is simply too big a part of our culture, heritage, and tradition. And of course, the beauties of celebration; the beauties of the concept of hope; and the beauties of religious artistry. Michelangelo's painting about the creation of Man is beautiful and a beautiful part of religious history.

I do not think religion can or should go away; rather, I would want to see extremism and fundamentalism go away.
 
KennyJC I understand your frustration with religion sometimes, I won't deny stupid things sometimes happen because of it. But as much as I consider myself an agnostic/atheist, I do not want it to go away. It is simply too big a part of our culture, heritage, and tradition. And of course, the beauties of celebration; the beauties of the concept of hope; and the beauties of religious artistry. Michelangelo's painting about the creation of Man is beautiful and a beautiful part of religious history.

I do not think religion can or should go away; rather, I would want to see extremism and fundamentalism go away.

I agree. I'm agnostic, but I think there is much that can be learned from other religions. And enjoy hearing why people believe what they do and the strength that they draw from belief is great and has helped many people get through tough times.
 
Simply having ideas out there won't mean people will accept them

No shit Sherlock. The point is that having many ideas out there availible to a person via technology makes them less likely to adopt that of their isolated culture.

How so? You can explain anything with religion. Intelligent design is also an actual scientific theory.

Well that just takes the biscuit. If you think intelligent design is an actual scientific theory, you have no clue what you are talking about. It's not science, it was defeated in court, defeated by science. Debate over.

I don't think it was ever intended to be taken literally

Oh yes it was. Preachers then and preachers now want you to take their word for it.

What does religion have to do with rationality?

Religion breeds irrationality.

What does this have to do with religion? I'm agnostic and I do not like homosexuality.

Point is, religions have a long history of descrimination. Saying you "don't like homosexuality" does not say wether or not you have no respect for homosexuals, or if you wish to deny homosexuals equal rights.

Therefore you are saying that to be a scientist, you must be an atheist.

You don't have to be an atheist to be a scientist, but it just so happens that most scientists are atheists. Funny that.

There's no evidence Constantine existed, nor Nero, nor Alexander, nor Napoleon

Well it's a matter of credability. I'm no historian, so I can not say anything about the likes of Constantine or Nero or Alexander or Napoleon. I would say it depends on the evidence and nature of the writings. When writings are of a religious nature, with all the miracles, FLYING ZOMBIES etc, it's hard to say wether or not the people mentioned in these lofty tales were real or not.

KennyJC I understand your frustration with religion sometimes, I won't deny stupid things sometimes happen because of it. But as much as I consider myself an agnostic/atheist, I do not want it to go away. It is simply too big a part of our culture, heritage, and tradition. And of course, the beauties of celebration; the beauties of the concept of hope; and the beauties of religious artistry. Michelangelo's painting about the creation of Man is beautiful and a beautiful part of religious history.

Michelangelo was under commission by the church. He could have done a similar masterpeice if he was under commission by the natural history museum.

I do not think religion can or should go away; rather, I would want to see extremism and fundamentalism go away.

Well extremism is the tip of the iceberg, and the thing holding them are the moderates and apologists.
 
Isolated culture? Easterners know far more about Western culture than vice versa.
 
No shit Sherlock. The point is that having many ideas out there availible to a person via technology makes them less likely to adopt that of their isolated culture.
And....



Well that just takes the biscuit. If you think intelligent design is an actual scientific theory, you have no clue what you are talking about. It's not science, it was defeated in court, defeated by science. Debate over.
Why is it not? It suggests that our universe was created by an intelligent entity/entities. I see no reason why that is any more ridiculous than a natural beginning



Oh yes it was. Preachers then and preachers now want you to take their word for it.
I disagree. I do not think it was intended to be taken literally, but people still did.



Religion breeds irrationality.
How so?



Point is, religions have a long history of descrimination. Saying you "don't like homosexuality" does not say wether or not you have no respect for homosexuals, or if you wish to deny homosexuals equal rights.
Eliminating religion won't eliminate discrimination. Nationality, culture, ethnicity, etc, will still create discrimination.

Also I do not want homosexuals to be able to marry. I am also agnostic, not religious.



You don't have to be an atheist to be a scientist, but it just so happens that most scientists are atheists. Funny that.
OK so you could be a religious scientist. End of debate on this part.



Well it's a matter of credability. I'm no historian, so I can not say anything about the likes of Constantine or Nero or Alexander or Napoleon. I would say it depends on the evidence and nature of the writings. When writings are of a religious nature, with all the miracles, FLYING ZOMBIES etc, it's hard to say wether or not the people mentioned in these lofty tales were real or not.
That is because you are taking that literally



Michelangelo was under commission by the church. He could have done a similar masterpeice if he was under commission by the natural history museum.
True, but that isn't the point. Religion has contributed vastly to many fields and aspects of Humanity; under moderation or if properly kept private or cultural, there is no problem with it.



Well extremism is the tip of the iceberg, and the thing holding them are the moderates and apologists.

Extremism is bad. I would prefer an atheist over an extremist. I would, however, prefer a moderate over an atheist.
 
Besides the US is basically 90% religious, and about 30-40% actively religious. It's going to be a long time before religion goes away, if it ever does.
 
David Mills, author of the book "Atheist Universe," delivers a rousing pep-talk titled "10 Reasons America is Approaching a Golden Age of Atheism."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrBxKFCHUpo

1 - Technology has removed an Isolation.
Sounds like you are speaking about Christianity vs. Atheism, rather than atheism in relation to religion in general. The very media you mention are also spreading religions and practices that have been suppressed in the past by both monotheist and secular societies and similar facets of other more mixed societies.
 

And with regard to America, that will inevitably lead to more atheists in societies where it was christianity and nothing else. Anything other than christianity was demonized.

Why is it not? It suggests that our universe was created by an intelligent entity/entities. I see no reason why that is any more ridiculous than a natural beginning

In a nut shell, it says "God did it". To be science it needs to find evidence and at least have a starting reference. The leaders of the ID movement tried to prove that many aspects of nature were irreducibly complex to the point where it could not have occurred naturally... like a clock. The problem is that the scientists proved that the examples put fourth by the ID movement in the Dover case weren't irreducibly complex and occurred naturally.

For more info on why it isn't science, watch this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVRsWAjvQSg

I disagree. I do not think it was intended to be taken literally, but people still did.

One thing you never hear from people starting new cults is "this is just a metaphor, don't take it literally". That doesn't boost membership.


FLYING ZOMBIES

Eliminating religion won't eliminate discrimination. Nationality, culture, ethnicity, etc, will still create discrimination.

But religion is assumed by many as being a force of good, and seeing it is the leading cause of descrimination in the USA, perhaps people will start to rethink this. I'm not saying discrimination will cease if religion is gone, but it will be less so. Hatred of gays, blacks etc is more proliferate in states that are more religious.

Also I do not want homosexuals to be able to marry. I am also agnostic, not religious.

Then you're just a fuckhead.

OK so you could be a religious scientist. End of debate on this part.

You can be a religious scientist. They are just few and far between.

That is because you are taking that literally

Religion got to where it is today by being taken literally. If nobody took it literally, christianity would never had gotten past the cult stages. Even the simple act of believing in god and heaven is taking a non existant thing literally.

True, but that isn't the point. Religion has contributed vastly to many fields and aspects of Humanity; under moderation or if properly kept private or cultural, there is no problem with it.

If we assume that man would still be in caves if not for religion you would be correct, but you and I both know civilization would have occurred either way.

Extremism is bad. I would prefer an atheist over an extremist. I would, however, prefer a moderate over an atheist.

Moderates are apologists for fundamentalism, hence moderation is a road block to ridding the world of fundamentalists. Look at Sam, she makes excuses for terrorism and the worst examples of religion.
 
There has been a systematic endeavour, ongoing for centuries, to destroy the concept of faith, and to alienate God from His creation. The perpetrators have used various tools to achieve this malevolent goal, such as Communism, Darwinism, Nazism, etc.
WTF? Nazism??
FYI Hitler was a xian

http://www.nobeliefs.com/Hitler1.htm
some more history for ya
http://www.nobeliefs.com/facts.htm

as far as communism goes:

http://www.nobeliefs.com/facts.htm#anchor199422
There have been more covert means of destroying faith as well, such as: secretly funding/arming religious fundamentalists; slyly removing its (religion's) influence from schools (thereby raising kids who, generation after generation, constantly know less and less about religion); introducing bizarre concepts of "secularism", and demanding the separation between Church and State;
nothings bizarre about it
do you know ANYTHING about Law of the land aka Constitution

http://www.nobeliefs.com/Tripoli.htm

http://www.nobeliefs.com/facts.htm#anchor244591

The entire purpose of creating a state of atheists is for a single party to easily attain ultimate, unadulterated control of a nation's wealth, resources, and manpower.
cant happen,even atheists wouldnt accept single party!

btw have you looked at how succesfull these so called atheistic countries
Japan Europe Canada etc are
as compared to highly religious like Africa ME and US bible belt
www.fuckthesouth.com

The atheist's apathy is highly exploitable,
I know many atheists,and none of them are apathetic,how many do you know?
on the contrary its the religious who go thru life like robots and only wait for heaven,caring not one bit for the environment or anyone else after all nothing matters except their imaginary sky dude,apathetic and pathetic indeed

The "golden age" of atheism, uncoincidentally, coincides directly with America's rapid, ongoing decline, and foreseeable collapse.
imo its religion that makes people stupid and immoral and dishonest,
after all whats the incentive for behaving honestly when "allegedly" all you need is Faith and belief in God to get into heaven?
so you can steal cheat fuck around murder people etc...BUT as long as you confess your sins accept Jebus all is groovy and forgiven huh?
talk about fucked up concept!
atheism is not to blame for any ills..after all its just lack of belief in gods,
religion is,
and its followers mindlesly and happily will even butcher children for their god!!

you wont see atheists ever do anything as bad as religious fanatics do,
why... b/c atheists THINK!!..and also appreciate LIFE.,and living

until religion dies there wont be any chance for peace on Earth.
 
Hitler was probably an atheist. As was Stalin, Kim Jong, Mao and the Khmer Rouge.
 
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