Are Theists Psychics by Default?

[Doreen]

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M*W: No. You are NOT responding to my ideas, beliefs or opinions, you are responding to the way I presented them. .

So when you, for example, implied strongly that God would give people information about lottery numbers and cars they should buy, if God existed
you really did not mean this?

 

[Doreen]

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M*W: No. You are NOT responding to my ideas, beliefs or opinions, you are responding to the way I presented them. .

So when you, for example, implied strongly that God would give people information about lottery numbers and cars they should buy, if God existed
you really did not mean this?

And by the way, what were my motives for post 32 here, in response to a theist.

http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?p=2506742#post2506742

I assure you they were precisely the same as my motives in relation to your post here.

 

[Doreen]

OT: Doreen, MW was not making up athiest views out of thin air.
Sometimes one substitutes one absurdity for another in order to clarify to a claimant that they have stated an absurdity.

Well, I am not sure if that was the case or not here. For example on the 'why doesn't God give out lottery numbers?' issue. I have encountered similar arguments to this one and the, seemingly intelligent atheists meant this quite seriously. IOW to them it seemed like if there was a God, a loving one, than this God would do more helpful stuff than God does not. Since God does not, God does nor or probably does not exist. I took her as intending this kind of reasoning. If that was not her reasoning, fine. If it was, as I said, I don't think this is a logical line of attack.

For example: Claimant says that God tells him what is right or wrong or tells him what to do.
Opponent then asks if a Flying Flatulent Fungus Fairy tells him what lottery numbers are winners and what to pick.

See above.

Although it is a fallacy to assume that because God does not give lottery numbers, there must be no God- that is not the claim or intent of Absurdity Substitution.

OK. I just want to make it clear again, I have encountered it, here also, quite a bit. Very similar arguments based on what atheists think a God would act like if the God existed. I am open to the possibility that this was not what she meant. Would have been fairly easy for her to say.

The substitution is done to make the claimant THINK about the absurdity in his claims by simple trasnsposing one absurdity with another.

Since she is an ex-Christian I would have thought she would know how many Christians view such things. That God tends to give spiritual advice or direct people to places or texts they can get spiritual advice and does not give so much practical advice. So she should know that this teaching absurdity is not going to work because two realms - very clearly divided in Christianity - are being referred to. You know, the whole render unto Caesar split, where there are transcendent important things, and then the stuff of the world, the latter being much less important to God and should be to us.

In fact this split is one of the main problems I have with Christianity, the implicit denigration of bodies, nature, animals, our current lives, justice and all the 'worldly things'. I say this as an aside.

It is not as if I thought all of this out when I read her piece, but I think this informed the way I took her post. How could she not know that Christians consider transcendent things of utmost value and worldly stuff beneath God? How could she not know there will be no shock of absurdity, if she really was doing this kind of Zen Koan, teaching through illogic approach?

Edit: iow she should know a Christian will consider consider one absurd and not the other, especially a fairly ascetic, 'spiritual' type like Adstar. And so I took it more as an implicit proof or as 'evidence'.

 

[Doreen]

Neverfly,
I do appreciate your tone and intelligence in this thread. Very pleasant to encounter.

 

[Medicine*Woman]

So when you, for example, implied strongly that God would give people information about lottery numbers and cars they should buy, if God existed you really did not mean this?

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M*W: If a god existed, it would give us everything, because, after all, we were supposed to be created in its "image." So, if there were some god, we should be as omniscient, omnipotent and omni-present as this god is. The problem is that we aren't. Therefore, there can be no god. We have to pick our lottery numbers by guessing at them. That is, unless we are psychic. It's all in our heads.

 

[Medicine*Woman]

So when you, for example, implied strongly that God would give people information about lottery numbers and cars they should buy, if God existed you really did not mean this?

And by the way, what were my motives for post 32 here, in response to a theist.

http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?p=2506742#post2506742

I assure you they were precisely the same as my motives in relation to your post here.

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M*W: Your "response to a theist" was not hyperlinked, so it couldn't be opened. I'm not really concerned with your "motives." I'd like to discuss religion here.

 

[Neverfly]

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M*W: If a god existed, it would give us everything, because, after all, we were supposed to be created in its "image." So, if there were some god, we should be as omniscient, omnipotent and omni-present as this god is. The problem is that we aren't. Therefore, there can be no god. We have to pick our lottery numbers by guessing at them. That is, unless we are psychic. It's all in our heads.

If this is your point, Then I seem to have been the one to misunderstand you and I agree with Doreens points.

MW, this is post ergo proctor hoc and non sequitor.

IF a God existed, there is no telling what he might do for what reasons.
Assuming that he would do any of what you say has no support not just in the ancient Christian doctrination, but even in the Modern Loving Version. According to the Modern Image of God, he is subtle and guides rather than gives.

Being Created in his "Image" is much open to interpretation (For obvious reasons...) and I do not understand how you state such and then leap to the conclusion he would give everything.

Example: God gave us trees and forests but it was up to us to build the houses.

It is far more logical to point out that there is no evidence (and a lot of evidence to the contrary) that God has given anything at all, much less lottery winnings.

 

[Doreen]

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M*W: Your "response to a theist" was not hyperlinked, so it couldn't be opened. I'm not really concerned with your "motives." I'd like to discuss religion here.

Hi. I said it was post 32 on the page that link goes to. You brought up my motives a couple of times. I am glad you no longer wish to discuss them.

 

[Doreen]

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M*W: If a god existed, it would give us everything, because, after all, we were supposed to be created in its "image." So, if there were some god, we should be as omniscient, omnipotent and omni-present as this god is. The problem is that we aren't. Therefore, there can be no god. We have to pick our lottery numbers by guessing at them. That is, unless we are psychic. It's all in our heads.

I literally could not have pointed out the problems of your post here better than Neverfly. I hope, since his or her motives are not suspect, you will consider the points Neverfly makes.

 

[PsychoticEpisode]

I think there are no logical claims to be made of God by either camp. So we have to go in sequential order, the first claim taking precedence. Anything else after that is merely interpretation. Any interpretation of an illogical claim is what? Incorrect?

The first claim concerns the scribe who wrote the text. His writing is the word of God. OK, now what?

 

[sifreak21]

So if someone is pretending to have an experience they are not having, we know that others are pretending also when they claim to have this experience.

I don't think that is logical.

i agree.. what about religion is logical?

 

[lightgigantic]

i agree.. what about religion is logical?

well over 70% of all established philosophers have some sort of transcendent feature within their world view

Of course as that trickles down to mainstream religion, it may get a bit lost, but then any discipline of knowledge can turn out that way.
Google Vytorin
:shrug:

 

[lightgigantic]

I think there are no logical claims to be made of God by either camp. So we have to go in sequential order, the first claim taking precedence. Anything else after that is merely interpretation. Any interpretation of an illogical claim is what? Incorrect?

The first claim concerns the scribe who wrote the text. His writing is the word of God. OK, now what?

I guess you have to examine the normative issues the author prescribes.
What else?

 

[Doreen]

The first claim concerns the scribe who wrote the text. His writing is the word of God. OK, now what?

For those whose religions are based on scribes, well it's pretty clear what the range of things they do 'now'. For those who are not interested, I guess they could ignore said scribe's writing. That what I do in relation to most scribes' writings. But I suppose this might only work for me.

 

[Adstar]

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M*W: You're right. It is your conscience that tells you what to do. It's no god putting those thoughts in your head. What about the people who believe in a god and your messiah jesus, but say, commit murder? Did god tell them to do that? If a god could send thoughts and ideas into your head, seems to me that you would have the mental capacity to pick the correct lottery numbers, or be a big winner at a casino, or to let you in on the perfect car you should buy. Why are these things hard to do if there's a god out there? It seems like your messiah jesus would make your life stand out in a way that other non-believers don't do. It also seems that god would give you and Sandy the right information about the catholic church.

The word "catholic" is a description that means "to bring everyone together as 'one.' It does not replace or stand for the word "christian." A "catholic" is a type of christian like saying a "Lutheran christian" or a Baptist christian." Get your facts straight. Just because I don't believe in catholic or any type of christianity, you people disgust me with your ignorance.

I have already corrected your ignorance twice in recent times about the catholic teachings on Guardian angels and Eating meat on Fridays. In both cases you where wrong. You make a show of being knowledgeable about all things catholic but have been shown up as a fake. If you ever where a catholic then you where just like the average catholic, they know very little about there own religion and simply leave it up to the "professionals" (priests and such) to just tell them what to do and when to do it.



All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[Enmos]

I have been a member in this forum for years and have read probably every argument that exists against God there is to read. My belief has only been strengthened during this time.

Is that why you come here?

All Praise The End Of Days.

 

[Medicine*Woman]

I have already corrected your ignorance twice in recent times about the catholic teachings on Guardian angels and Eating meat on Fridays. In both cases you where wrong. You make a show of being knowledgeable about all things catholic but have been shown up as a fake. If you ever where a catholic then you where just like the average catholic, they know very little about there own religion and simply leave it up to the "professionals" (priests and such) to just tell them what to do and when to do it.

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M*W: You seem to know about "all things catholic," but I was a catholic, and I lived it, I studied it to the point that it aggravated the priests. I seemed to bother them with questions that the catholic church did answer. I led them into discussions, and they tended to cut me off.

You are not in a position to "correct my ignorance" on "all things catholic." Obviously, I wasn't an "average catholic," and I always knew that. I didn't fit in, and my catholic peers couldn't answer my questions either. They prefered to keep the status quo. I was basically told by the priests that "as a woman, I shouldn't be questioning anything...". I realize they didn't have the answers... and I was probably making them "question."

I was never average at anything I have ever done, especially as a christian.

 

[Adstar]

Originally Posted by Adstar
I have been a member in this forum for years and have read probably every argument that exists against God there is to read. My belief has only been strengthened during this time.

Is that why you come here?

All Praise The End Of Days.

I come here to share the message of Jesus and to try to answer legitimate misunderstandings people may have about God's Will. So i come here for the benefit of anyone who is prepared to consider the message of Jesus.

A side benefit for me is that i have been forced to seek more wisdom from God and that has greatly increased my knowledge of salvation and my confidence in God. Being persecuted does indeed make one stronger.

All Praise The End Of Days.

??? ummm what’s that about.



All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[Enmos]

I come here to share the message of Jesus and to try to answer legitimate misunderstandings people may have about God's Will. So i come here for the benefit of anyone who is prepared to consider the message of Jesus.

A side benefit for me is that i have been forced to seek more wisdom from God and that has greatly increased my knowledge of salvation and my confidence in God. Being persecuted does indeed make one stronger.

Alright, fair enough

??? ummm what’s that about.

I'm an evening person

 

[Medicine*Woman]

I come here to share the message of Jesus

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M*W: Then you've come to the wrong place.

...and to try to answer legitimate misunderstandings people may have about God's Will. So i come here for the benefit of anyone who is prepared to consider the message of Jesus.

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M*W: Since this is a science forum, you have come here falsely.

A side benefit for me is that i have been forced to seek more wisdom from God and that has greatly increased my knowledge of salvation and my confidence in God. Being persecuted does indeed make one stronger.

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M*W: So, you've come here to gratify your masochistic desires.