Are forced rectal exams immoral?

[Bells]

Errmm ok.

The guy received a knock on the head so they do a rectal exam?:bugeye:

Aside from the obligatory 'what the hell'...

What the hell?

Was there any indication that the knock to his forehead may have caused spinal injuries? Had he fallen over or collapsed, causing possible injury to his lower spine? And then to be detained for 3 days afterwards for refusing the exam and charging him with assault? At least the judge saw fit to dismiss that charge.

But seriously.. knock to the forehead now means you need to have a rectal exam? Again.. What the hell?!?

 

[Asguard]

bell ALL head injuries are automatically treated by both ambo's and A&E's as potential spinal injurys.

That means the collor, the spinal board, the blood tests, the x-rays, the whole works

Its better to over test than to miss an injury

Besides which from a methods and pattens of injuries stand point a hit to the top of the head can compress the spine, a blow to the chin can strech it

I was a little surprised that they did it by exam rather than MRI but if thats the procidure they were doing the right thing

 

[visceral_instinct]

@Asguard, what does GCS mean?

 

[Tiassa]

Glasgow Coma Scale

what does GCS mean?

Refers to the Glasgow Coma Scale (mentioned in #27 above). For more detailed information regarding the function and parameters of the GCS, see Wikipedia.

 

[Asguard]

im sorry thats by fault

GCS is Glasgow Coma Scale

Its a much more acurate measure of someones nerological state
you assess three things

eyes (4open spontaeously, 3to speach, 2to pain, 1unresponcive)
Verbal responce (5orientated, 4confused, 3inapropriate words, 2incomprehensable sounds, 1nil)
motor control (6obeys comands, 5purposeful movement, 4withdraws to pain, 3flexion to pain, 2exstention to pain, 1nil)

You add up the patients score for all of these and if its less than 8 they are in a coma. Even a corps scores a 3


Its used by ambulance services, A&E's and neroliogists to indicate a nerological condition although it a falling GCS can be caused by a range of conditions.

 

[visceral_instinct]

Thanks for the information, Asguard.

 

[sowhatifit'sdark]

I think if you are a conscious adult, you should be allowed to refuse treatment. even if it confirms you are an idiot to do so.

I mean hell, maybe there was a .01% chance it the test would help him and the guy had been raped as a kid. I think he damn well gets to choose. And if they did not spend some time explaining the reason they wanted to look in his ass and what the dangers and statistics are if they don't do the test, they are even more to blame.

 

[Asguard]

sowhatifit'sdark problem is that a hit to the head can give you concussion. If they are doing a neroexam to check for Cerebral spinal injurys then there is a high chance that they couldnt trust what he was saying was the same thing they would say if he HADNT had the knock on the head

 

[sowersweet]

I stumbled across this thread and found this really interesting because I am a 25 year old woman with a similar experience, and I have always questioned the morality and ethics of what was done to me. As a small child, say three or four, I was taken to a pediatrician, presumably for a stomach ache, and the doctor proceeded to give me a rectal exam to check for constipation. It was painful, I was afraid, and I resisted. They had several nurses forcibly hold me down while the doctor performed the exam and I fought terribly, even bit one of the nurses. it was so traumatic that even though I have tried to brush the experience off, it has haunted me my whole life in much the same way, I imagine, as an incident of sexual assault/sodomy would. My sex life is currently still affected by this event.
Now, I suppose there may have been real medical reasons for doing the exam, but did the end really justify the means? Doctors clearly were not considering the long term psychological effects of forcing such an exam. Yes they may have verified that I was not constipated, but the result is that I will have issues regarding sex and personal contact my entire life. It may be the same for this man. Yes they may have verified he did not have spinal injuries, but now he essentially feels he has been raped/sodomized. There may be long term psychological effects for him, especially, for instance, if he had already been a victim of sexual assualt previously. Really think about this. the person getting sodomized suffers the results of sexual assault, regardless of whether the offender is a doctor, a nurse, or just a plain old rapist.

 

[chimpkin]

I stumbled across this thread and found this really interesting because I am a 25 year old woman with a similar experience, and I have always questioned the morality and ethics of what was done to me. As a small child, say three or four, I was taken to a pediatrician, presumably for a stomach ache, and the doctor proceeded to give me a rectal exam to check for constipation. It was painful, I was afraid, and I resisted. They had several nurses forcibly hold me down while the doctor performed the exam and I fought terribly, even bit one of the nurses. it was so traumatic that even though I have tried to brush the experience off, it has haunted me my whole life in much the same way, I imagine, as an incident of sexual assault/sodomy would. My sex life is currently still affected by this event.

If you have not tried therapy for this, I understand EMDR tends to work better for people traumatized in single incidents. If your parent was present/consenting...this would add to the feeling of betrayal.

 

[Asguard]

If you have not tried therapy for this, I understand EMDR tends to work better for people traumatized in single incidents. If your parent was present/consenting...this would add to the feeling of betrayal.

Chimpkin the parents would have had to consent and a lot of pediatric med is very traumatic. One example springs to mind, a 3 year old child with croop, in order for the doctor to treat him myself, an ambo, a nurse and mum were all required to phisically hold him down while the doc forced a hissing plastic mask over his face. Mum understood what we were doing and why but the child didnt and on top of all this was the reason we were treating him, he was having trouble breathing.

Other children are dangled by there feet while they choak because that is the best way to dislodge an object, i've herd of other kids who have had to have catherders up there penises, ped med isnt pleasent

 

[chimpkin]

Chimpkin the parents would have had to consent and a lot of pediatric med is very traumatic. One example springs to mind, a 3 year old child with croop, in order for the doctor to treat him myself, an ambo, a nurse and mum were all required to phisically hold him down while the doc forced a hissing plastic mask over his face. Mum understood what we were doing and why but the child didnt and on top of all this was the reason we were treating him, he was having trouble breathing.

Other children are dangled by there feet while they choak because that is the best way to dislodge an object, i've herd of other kids who have had to have catherders up there penises, ped med isnt pleasent

I understand all that.
But this woman was traumatized as a four year old.
Does a four-year-old understand all that?
No.
All of that did not matter to the traumatized four-year-old.
The four year old is still causing problems in the 25-year-old's head.
I was saying the four-year-old would have felt worse if their parent was in the room. Remember...their world is large, does not make sense, and can be very terrifying.

There are people who have PTSD from medical treatments they had as children that were needed to keep them alive, or to help them walk normally. That's not unheard of.
Did you see me say the doc was wrong?

Although, in my mostly-uneducated opinion, I would have thought he could have palpated the colon through the abdominal wall and confirmed that there wasn't constipation..
I'm prone to getting stoppered, and you can feel it through the abdominal wall just fine.

Edited to add:
When I was six mom took me to a dentist who drilled my teeth with no anesthesia. I'd not been to the dentist before, so I didn't know most dentists use novocaine when they drill teeth.

She was not in the room when my teeth were getting drilled, or she would have seen me digging my nails into the chair in agony as the guy filled most of my molars, while he kept saying "Oh, come on! That doesn't hurt!"
This is why I thought the parent might not have been in the room to see their kid get wrestled into a rectal exam.

Too, I got to go get epinephrine shots for my asthma attacks, and they were no fun...it was mainly the throwing-up afterwards.

(The last time I had a tooth fixed, I would not let the lady work until I had been shot up with novocaine 2 times. I won't let them near me until I can't feel my face.)