That's hot.
Are forced rectal exams immoral?
- Thread starter Syzygys
- Start date
Completely agree with this. ^^
But that sounds sane to me! I know the standard argument is that someone in that position is sick in the mind as well as the body and cannot make an informed decision. But I am a sane and healthy person and I can say definitely that I would rather be dead than never walk again.
thats my point. Spinal injuries cant be clinically diognosed they require an MRI, so there is no garentie that this person is actually never going to walk again. Even if he cant he can live a normal life in a wheel chair and thats the WORST case.
Blood loss can also cause loss of feeling and tingling ie shock. Shock can cause a LOT of nero symptoms (thats real shock not "oh i had a shock when i saw such and such"). Not to mention that having half a car crushing your leg DEFINITLY will. That was a hypothetical case based on a REAL case we were taught about in a lecture by the Medical Director of SAAS. The ambulance service WAS sued because the ambos left a man with suspected spinal injurys and he later died. The family won a fortune
None of those cases take into account the fact that people with head injuries are OFTEN combative, infact its one of the indicators for a nero complaint.
Not everything is as black and white as we would like, esspecially in emergency care
You know what the most comon reaction is after the treatment for a herion overdose? For the ambo's to end up with a black eye because the adict lost there hit.
I would MUCH rather atend a biky war than a drug adict because bikies concider the green uniform to be sacrosit because they know that if they atack the ambo's they are on there own when they go down. A meth adict doesnt have the same rational thinking.
I sugest that if you REALLY want to know what its like you get involved in the emergency services, or volenteer in an A&E.
Issues of concent are not always "an old lady with terminal cancer who doesnt want and more pointless treatment"
Blood loss can also cause loss of feeling and tingling ie shock. Shock can cause a LOT of nero symptoms (thats real shock not "oh i had a shock when i saw such and such"). Not to mention that having half a car crushing your leg DEFINITLY will. That was a hypothetical case based on a REAL case we were taught about in a lecture by the Medical Director of SAAS. The ambulance service WAS sued because the ambos left a man with suspected spinal injurys and he later died. The family won a fortune
None of those cases take into account the fact that people with head injuries are OFTEN combative, infact its one of the indicators for a nero complaint.
Not everything is as black and white as we would like, esspecially in emergency care
You know what the most comon reaction is after the treatment for a herion overdose? For the ambo's to end up with a black eye because the adict lost there hit.
I would MUCH rather atend a biky war than a drug adict because bikies concider the green uniform to be sacrosit because they know that if they atack the ambo's they are on there own when they go down. A meth adict doesnt have the same rational thinking.
I sugest that if you REALLY want to know what its like you get involved in the emergency services, or volenteer in an A&E.
Issues of concent are not always "an old lady with terminal cancer who doesnt want and more pointless treatment"
Orleander not sure where you live but in Australia they have changed the laws of concent such that if a child is capable of making a rational decision they should be lissioned to. For instance a 14 year old (too young to concent to medical treatment under old laws) can recive the pill (without parental concent or even knowlage) if they can show the doctor that they are mature enough to understand the implications of the actions, both of taking the pill and having sex ect
right, a rational decision. The man just took a blow to the head. Were they to assume that because he spoke well, that he was fine?
umm again that depends on there definition of lock up. If its a police lock up then i hope they get sued for all they are worth, I am sick of the police putting people who should be in hospital in lock up but if they were talking about a secure ward in hospital i would want to see the shrinks report before i made any judgement.
Oh and my comment about the police goes for drunks and drug effected as well. To many times a "drunk" has been thrown in the lock up and when they come to let them out they are dead because it was really a brain aneurysm or they aspirated (i hope i spelt that correctly) and died in the night
Edit to add: by the same token i dont want any heroin OD to atack me either because i ruined there hit
Oh and my comment about the police goes for drunks and drug effected as well. To many times a "drunk" has been thrown in the lock up and when they come to let them out they are dead because it was really a brain aneurysm or they aspirated (i hope i spelt that correctly) and died in the night
Edit to add: by the same token i dont want any heroin OD to atack me either because i ruined there hit
That's right. My friend recently fell into a coma due to a thyroid condition. But before he was unconscious, he fought with the orderlies. It took a bunch of them to hold him still, since he's a martial arts master (and an escape artist). They had to put him in restraints. He doesn't remember any of it.
spider it doesnt matter about his self defence skills. In one class were were taught how to restrain someone without giving injury (unlike the police way of the knee in the back). A normal male takes ATLEAST 6 people to restrain them and then you need at least one more to actually administer the medaz. Thats a real problem when a ambulance crew is 2 people so we get taught "if you need more men, call the fire crew"
They come in groups of 6-8. Otherwise we need a LOT of ambulance crews or lots of cops to help us
They come in groups of 6-8. Otherwise we need a LOT of ambulance crews or lots of cops to help us
How come?:
1. Dude doesn't want to get exemined, he sues.
2. Relatives don't like that hospital didn't do test, they sue.
Sounds like a lose-lose situation to me...
What could he claim as damages?
Syzygys yep happens alot in the ambulance service. Person refuses treatment and you treat anyway its assult or you DONT treat and they die "well they wernt mentally capable of making that choice" I am SOOO glad that the ambulance service has to pay those bills not me
He claimed assault charges although the judge threw that one out. Restricting personal freedom would be my guess, maybe bodily harm.
Asguard (hm, ironic name in this discussion) I guess there is a difference between test and treatment. The rectal exam was just part of the test, not a treatment.
Asguard (hm, ironic name in this discussion) I guess there is a difference between test and treatment. The rectal exam was just part of the test, not a treatment.
He would have had to be injured as a result of the exam, which is unlikely. Judges don't often grant money for mental anguish (at least Judge Judy doesn't).
Umm have you ever delt with someone with a suspected spinal injury and a falling GCS?
Its not an experiance i am rushing to have again, trying to get the collor on with them fighting you all the way and stablising the head with them thrashing around while your partner trys to get a back brace on. trying to stop them injuring themselves while the emergency room staff get the x-rays ect
I wasnt just pulling those situations out of my ass so to speak, they are from REAL cases.
Its not an experiance i am rushing to have again, trying to get the collor on with them fighting you all the way and stablising the head with them thrashing around while your partner trys to get a back brace on. trying to stop them injuring themselves while the emergency room staff get the x-rays ect
I wasnt just pulling those situations out of my ass so to speak, they are from REAL cases.
Syzygys said:
Lose-lose is a daily occurrence for hospitals. Indeed, this might be one of those occasions.
I'm still flipping a coin between the right to refuse treatment and the question of a sound mind after being struck in the head on a construction site.
To the other, what a freakin' tight-ass pansy. If it comes out that this patient was, as a child, raped by his father or a priest or something like that, I'll withdraw that point. But, really. Why would he beg to forego that exam?