are atheists a product of Murphy's law?
- Thread starter scifes
- Start date
What evidence? What proof? I would love to believe in God, I think that would be great (although I would have some pointed questions for him). Unfortunately, the universe is consistent with all natural laws.
1. Provide evidence that 'free will' is a working concept and not just an illusion. I would submit that upon examination, it would certainly seem more pertinent to suggest the latter.
2. This is a nightmare - especially for christians. The dilemma is that if we were to say that god could programme us all not to be atheists but instead to know of his existence, the theist will typically assert that we cannot know because it would hinder free will. But then in making such declaration, the christian negates his own position to that of agnosticism, (cannot know), whilst contradictorily asserting that he is engaged in personal relationship with said entity, (which requires knowledge of existence).
Your claim that "no matter how hard the evidence or proof" is baseless given godly omnipotence. But then we need to discuss further whether knowledge of something's existence would negate free will.
Would my knowledge of the existence of the biblical god in any way negate my ability to not like said entity? I see no valid reason why but perhaps you can offer something?
regards,
Indeed. Why did God make atheists?
Yazata
Valued Senior Member
I think that agnosticism is the most intellectually justifiable position to take regarding what presumably are transcendental matters. But having said that, I guess that I come pretty close to atheism in actual practice. I certainly don't believe in any of the gods or divinities proposed by the various religious traditions. I'm also unmoved by the more philosophical arguments that vainly try to raise a personal 'God' out of abstract philosophical functions (first-cause or whatever).
I'm convinced that there's more to reality than human beings currently understand, and perhaps will ever understand. But I'm equally convinced that purported divine revelations don't bring us any closer to learning the real answers.
oh gimme a break willya?
if you think it's so great you can still believe in him even if you don't have proof.
how do theists do it then?
no kidding! and what are natural laws, other than those which are consistent with the universe?
was the latter, then became the former.
i was indoctrinated, but at a point a followed my own path.
free will is a working concept.
it works as an illusion. here, we've more than exhusted the topic in this thread;
http://www.sciforums.com/showpost.php?p=2474026&postcount=40
that went straight over my head. simpler please?
as long as said knowledge doesn't strip you of free will[which it doesn't], we will have atheists.
that's my point, even if everybody on earth had the potential of knowing of god's existence, we will have unbelievers.
I have read the link which unfortunately barely even scratches the surface of the issue. For what it's worth, as written, knowing a choice in advance would not negate it being a choice, (needs to go a lot more indepth than that), but this does not argue that free will therefore does exist - and that is what I am disputing. Your post doesn't really address that.
I would ask that if you actually have an argument to support a claim to 'free will' existing, you kindly present it now.
Ok.
A god, by being omnipotent, could programme us all with express knowledge of it's existence. Typically the theist will assert that it cannot make people know it exists because in doing that, free will is removed. As a consequence of the theists own assertion, he declares himself 'agnostic' and, should he be a believer in the Judeo-christian gods, is actually contradicting his claims that one can engage in personal relationships with said entity. Better?
Not if everyone knows said entity exists. You'd have no "unbelievers" but that wouldn't rule out people that don't like it, worship it or want to spend their weekends making it feel better about itself.
Regards,
Incisive, responsive answer.
Lack of critical thinking.
They are the laws which make the existence of god unneccessary.
You mean believing, not knowing. Of course, the words are synonyms for you.
So he had a place to put atheists?to put them in hell of course
you can ask it another way, why did god create hell?
Or, he was just bored....Or, perhaps just a sadist..
to put them in hell of course
you can ask it another way, why did god create hell?
Did he? Cos the God of the Jews didn't.
Sort of the other way around, frankly. As it should be.
God used to exist, but when I asked him how a just, omnipotent being could allow cretins like scifes to run free, he admitted that I had a good point and un-created himself.
the gos of the jews didn't create hell?
e.lab.o.rate
i agree that your reply is no reply since the argument you're replying to isn't an argument in your opinion.
iow, i didn't understand what you said.
but i'm still here!
shouldn't've god uncreate me instead?
WHAT UNLOGIC!:m: