Any unbrainwashed theists out there?

[jayleew]

If God is real, he exists by the same chance that we do (that's our best guess), and is on a higher plane than the universe, which is claimed to be its creation. If we are still discovering the secrets of the universe, how can we measure anything outside it. For all intent and purposes, nothing exists outside the known universe. This is a pointless and moot debate. There's no point in saying anything other than, "I don't know for sure, all I know is what can measure"

For all those zealots on both sides, claiming the truth, get some sense. There is or there is not. Pointless!

All religious people I have met need religion to supplement a deficiency in their mental or physical being...aka...their soul. I was a Christian for over 30 years and I'm interested in those that believe, but don't need to believe. In the face of reason, and that they observe the improbability of the existence of anything of fantasy, but still believe. Are there any theists out there like this?

 

[Rightmind]

This has prompted me to make my first post in this forum.

I was raised as a Christian primarily by my father. As I entered my teens I was living with my mother and was no longer attending church. I graduated from my catholic elementary school and began attending a public high school. I can say with relative certainty that I've been thinking for myself for several years now, but that never seemed to extinguish my "supernatural" beliefs.

I've been struggling with my spirituality for several years. Only recently have I really begun to look into it. The evidence pointing towards the non existence of God is certainly strong, but despite this evidence I still believe in a higher power of some sort.

If I were to cease being a theist my life would change very little. In fact I'm sure it would have no positive impact on me at all. So I suppose I believe because there's really no harm in my believing. However, I could just deluding myself.

I hope this helps. But I'm about to start attending university and with all the philosophy, sociology and psychology classes I'll be taking it's possible that my viewpoint could change very soon.

 

[Enmos]

If God is real, he exists by the same chance that we do (that's our best guess), and is on a higher plane than the universe, which is claimed to be its creation. If we are still discovering the secrets of the universe, how can we measure anything outside it. For all intent and purposes, nothing exists outside the known universe. This is a pointless and moot debate.

It's moot alright. There is NO outside to the universe. The universe is all there is.

 

[Lori_7]

What I'd like to know is who in this world would be stupid enough to believe they aren't brainwashed by something to some degree?

I don't believe in god cause I have to. I believe in god because I've observed it and interacted with it, and that's the label I felt was appropriate given logical definition. I could call it something else if I wanted to, but its something. Well, its something else...

 

[Ingognito]

This view is naive at best. So by your posts, I assume you to be an agnostic; as someone who deems it "impossible to know whether there is a God". But then you go on to attack theists for their "blind" faith or beliefs. For someone who entertains the possibility of there actually being a God, why would you be disgusted most by the people who choose to follow without evidence? Wouldn't they be an ounce bit smarter than the atheist who choose to deny without proof? Because it seems like to me that it is the Atheist who are playing craps with their lives. Theist seem more sensible from an agnostic point of view, don't you think? It sounds like you've had a rough road as a Christian, which is apparent from your sudden change in beliefs. But the word says, "Rejoice in our suffering, suffering produces perseverance, perseverance-character and character hope". If you jump off the train of suffering too soon, you'll never make it to the stop of pure faith, understanding, and peace on Earth which is possible through God's grace and his blessings.

 

[Ingognito]

All religious people I have met need religion to supplement a deficiency in their mental or physical being...aka...their soul. I was a Christian for over 30 years and I'm interested in those that believe, but don't need to believe. In the face of reason, and that they observe the improbability of the existence of anything of fantasy, but still believe. Are there any theists out there like this?

Now, what do you have to believe in? Belief is peace. But what can you tell me is certain in this world? The answer is nothing. God is certain and if you give him enough time to reveal himself to you, he will. Yes, God does fill a mental deficiency. But you should be jealous of those who have achieved this state, because you are not going to get it any other way. There is nothing certain on Earth. There is barely any truth. Nor is there any hope.

God is the truth. God is peace of mind. God is all powerful. God is hope. God will do for you, better than any street drug will do for you, if you only believed 100%. But believing this much takes time, patience, and living by the words of the Father.

 

[Medicine*Woman]

This view is naive at best. So by your posts, I assume you to be an agnostic; as someone who deems it "impossible to know whether there is a God". But then you go on to attack theists for their "blind" faith or beliefs. For someone who entertains the possibility of there actually being a God, why would you be disgusted most by the people who choose to follow without evidence? Wouldn't they be an ounce bit smarter than the atheist who choose to deny without proof? Because it seems like to me that it is the Atheist who are playing craps with their lives. Theist seem more sensible from an agnostic point of view, don't you think? It sounds like you've had a rough road as a Christian, which is apparent from your sudden change in beliefs. But the word says, "Rejoice in our suffering, suffering produces perseverance, perseverance-character and character hope". If you jump off the train of suffering too soon, you'll never make it to the stop of pure faith, understanding, and peace on Earth which is possible through God's grace and his blessings.

*************
M*W: You're wrong. Atheists don't play the religion card. That's something theists do. Once in a while, a theist might just use the brain he was given to realize that he might be able to think for himself.

 

[Ingognito]

It's moot alright. There is NO outside to the universe. The universe is all there is.

There is no outside of the universe? Which train did you take to verify this? With all of the arguments posed by countless cosmologist who wonder if there are multi-verses, more dimensions, and branes from M-Theory.

Explain again, why there is nothing outside of the universe? And then tell me which theory you are quoting so I can see if experiments have been completed to prove it beyond 100% of reasonable doubt.

 

[Enmos]

There is no outside of the universe? Which train did you take to verify this? With all of the arguments posed by countless cosmologist who wonder if there are multi-verses, more dimensions, and branes from M-Theory.

Explain again, why there is nothing outside of the universe? And then tell me which theory you are quoting so I can see if experiments have been completed to prove it beyond 100% of reasonable doubt.

'Universe' literally means 'all there is'.

 

[Lori_7]

Ingognito, why should, or rather, how could someone believe something without evidence? That makes absolutely no sense to me.

 

[Ingognito]

*************
M*W: You're wrong. Atheists don't play the religion card. That's something theists do. Once in a while, a theist might just use the brain he was given to realize that he might be able to think for himself.

Which portion of my post are you referring to? Because I mentioned nothing of religion or race cards. You, by the text under you moniker, spends too much time trying to disprove God and Jesus Christ; which maxes out your brains RAM and therefore can not see God in the little details in life caused by an actual physical and mental impairment created by an error of thought.

You're not even looking. So you will not see.

Most people who deny God are too afraid of giving up their own sinful ways. It looks much like cowardice, like the person who is terrified of change.

 

[Ingognito]

'Universe' literally means 'all there is'.

By human definition and observation. To see things literally is also by human definition and observation. You are taking literally the own words you've created. How about you take literally a word that was not created by a human.

Universe means all that there is. Are you telling me that scientists have ruled out an external source or energy that caused/provoked the Big Bang? If so, please quote the study and findings.

 

[Enmos]

How about you take literally a word that was not created by a human.

Show me some.

Universe means all that there is. Are you telling me that scientists have ruled out an external source or energy that caused/provoked the Big Bang? If so, please quote the study and findings.

If 'universe' means 'all there is', and it does, then anything else that is discovered "outside" the universe is actually also part of the universe. It's simple logic.

 

[Ingognito]

Ingognito, why should, or rather, how could someone believe something without evidence? That makes absolutely no sense to me.

I know! The atheist is the only one here who is believing without evidence. And they don't even stop at disbelief, they make it their job to go out and squash theists with their little bits of information about evolution and universe origins.

Tell me the signs from nature that you experienced that serves as brick evidence for the proof of God's non-existence. You have none. All you have is arrogance and ego.

So this is why I am going to make it my duty to stomp out the little bit of ego you atheists hold dear. Because you are the most dangerous. Not religious folks. You have no reason for participating in moral constraint outside what is required of you by the law. And the act of winning and winning without a God to hold you down, only leads to madness, greed, and damage to society.

 

[Ingognito]

Show me some.


If 'universe' means 'all there is', and it does, then anything else that is discovered "outside" the universe is actually also part of the universe. It's simple logic.

Who are you trying to fool? You're trying to hide behind words with failed logic? So God doesn't exist, because there is nothing outside of the universe. The universe is everything. But you know nothing about prior Big Bang. You don't know what it looks like. You don't know why it's caused. But you know that all things outside of the universe, prior Big Bang, is part of YOUR universe because of some man's definition of?

Why is up down? Why isn't down up? You're hiding behind human words and definitions of things not even fully understood.

 

[Lori_7]

Ingognito, I'm a theist, but you refered to religious people believing in god without evidence in a previous post. I don't understand how that is possible. Its a lie. You can't truly believe something unless you know it, and you can't truly know it unless you've experienced it, and may I point out that this is a lie that feeds the atheist arguement like junk food.

 

[Enmos]

Who are you trying to fool? You're trying to hide behind words with failed logic?

Failed logic ? Point out where it fails then..

So God doesn't exist, because there is nothing outside of the universe.

Did I say that ?

The universe is everything. But you know nothing about prior Big Bang.

Irrelevant.

You don't know what it looks like.

Irrelevant.

You don't know why it's caused.

Irrelevant.

But you know that all things outside of the universe, prior Big Bang, is part of YOUR universe because of some man's definition of?

Correct.
The universe is the sum of everything in existence.

Why is up down? Why isn't down up? You're hiding behind human words and definitions of things not even fully understood.

:crazy:

 

[Ingognito]

Lori, many Christians believe without evidence. This is the common usage of faith. It is to believe without sight. Many Christians fall off of the bandwagon due to all of the factual evidence about evolution and the big bang being spewed every which way. Why would these outside factors affect faith so much, if every Christian had concrete evidence about God's existence.

 

[Ingognito]

It's moot alright. There is NO outside to the universe. The universe is all there is.

So you're saying that God is irrelevant but may possibly exist? How does that make sense? Please reply.

 

[Lori_7]

Lori, many Christians believe without evidence. This is the common usage of faith. It is to believe without sight. Many Christians fall off of the bandwagon due to all of the factual evidence about evolution and the big bang being spewed every which way. Why would these outside factors affect faith so much, if every Christian had concrete evidence about God's existence.

That is not faith. That is an unsubstantiated lie religious people like to believe because it makes them feel good. I have faith in what I know, and I know god.