Any atheists here who were once believers?

[Robittybob1]

It depends on what you are predicting and when. If you are telling someone about it after the event and you are the only evidence then that doesn't count obviously. Randi had a method that would have worked but you felt that it was asking "too many questions".

If you are predicting whether a coin will be heads of tails then if you can call it more than 50% of the time correctly given a large enough sample that works.

Predicting David's dream in your dream and then having only you or David give the feedback isn't going to pass any scientific test.

Forget the past and design a test that involves deja vu?

Like if I have a dream of a scene overnight and it is written down first thing in the morning, and when the deja vu experience happens I record it somehow, and you then compare the dream vision (notes) to the situation (photograph?).

Can you see how a test can be devised to prove or disprove that?

 

[Mazulu]

As a tool for discovering truth? What's right with emotions?

Emotions are part of the human experience. Emotions can be satisfying, healing and inspiring. Emotions can touch us deeply down to the depths of our soul. That is what's right about emotions.

Logic and reason should be your guides. Saying things like "Everybody knows love is immaterial" only makes you look like an idiot.

Calling people "idiot" and "stupid" as a means to force their behavior is old school. It just doesn't carry the power anymore. Meh!

You've cut away the majority of my last several questions and flung ad homs instead of actually addressing anything I've asked you. Read over those posts and answer the questions I've asked you. Meet the challenge, don't run from it.

I repeated my questions to you and you still ignore them. I am still waiting on your definition of what you mean by "material". I answered your question about the bacteria. yes you can touch them if there are enough of them (slime), otherwise you need a microscope. But you feel diminished in my eyes. You've demonstrated intellectual dishonesty by continuing to avoid my questions. If I have missed your questions, they do me the courtesy that I have done you, and repeat them. Beyond that, I think others here can lead me to truth better than you can.

 

[Seattle]

Forget the past and design a test that involves deja vu?

Like if I have a dream of a scene overnight and it is written down first thing in the morning, and when the deja vu experience happens I record it somehow, and you then compare the dream vision (notes) to the situation (photograph?).

Can you see how a test can be devised to prove or disprove that?

It's going to involve you coming into (for example) Randi's office before the event happens and describing what is going to happen and then having the event actually happen. Of course it can't be that "my daughter is going to feel sick" and then you ask your daughter if she feels sick and she says "yes".

I think you can see that it has to be more independent from your control than that.

In the past there have been people who claim "powers" to heal people. The practitioners really think they have those powers and their patients believe they do as well.

When you test the claims however they don't have any powers. When you don't let the healer know who is sick and who isn't. When you don't let the patients know which person is the healer and which one isn't.

Under those circumstances people don't improve anymore than randomness or the placebo effect would do the same thing.

 

[Mazulu]

But in this case it was the truth, wasn't it?
http://www.sciforums.com/showthread...d-discussion&p=3113907&viewfull=1#post3113907
but the secondary consequences were quite devastating.
http://www.sciforums.com/showthread...d-discussion&p=3113915&viewfull=1#post3113915

Robbitybob1,
Are you telling me that God (or more likely some meddling spirit) is trying to get you to marry your 12 year old daughter off to some guy named David? Did I read that correctly?

 

[Robittybob1]

..... You have no respect for her beliefs or lack thereof.

Perhaps it is better to respect the person as a whole and the path and journey they chose to take for themselves than to demand expect people believe so that you can respect them for who they are. ....

....
Belief, religion and spirituality is personal and private. You cannot expect others or demand others believe like you do. You trod the path for yourself. Respect others for their right to do the same, regardless of where it takes them. That is their path and theirs alone.

I said to wegs last week that "my daughter is an atheist but I still love her". So I do respect their predicament.

The path I chose was not just for me. I wasn't going to go to Heaven unless I can take the whole Earth with me. It was quite a challenge to think I would be willing give up everything for everyone. OK maybe it won't work but that was my desire and my intentions.

 

[Robittybob1]

Robbitybob1,
Are you telling me that God (or more likely some meddling spirit) is trying to get you to marry your 12 year old daughter off to some guy named David? Did I read that correctly?

No David is now married with 3 kids of his own. My daughter has 2 kids as well. We are talking about things that happened 23 years ago.
The spirit talking to me said ..... "remember it is only a dream" like it was fantasy not a prediction of a future event.

 

[Balerion]

Emotions are part of the human experience. Emotions can be satisfying, healing and inspiring. Emotions can touch us deeply down to the depths of our soul. That is what's right about emotions.

Read it again. "As a tool for discovering truth?"

Context, kid. Context.

Calling people "idiot" and "stupid" as a means to force their behavior is old school. It just doesn't carry the power anymore. Meh!

It's not about forcing behavior. It's an observation.

I repeated my questions to you and you still ignore them. I am still waiting on your definition of what you mean by "material".

If you'd bother actually reading the posts instead of littering the board with false bravado and pictures of giant sledgehammers (can't imagine what you're overcompensating for there, can we? ), you probably wouldn't be so confused right now. And I'm supposed to do the work, go back through all of the posts and find the questions you ducked? Why, so you can duck them again? I've asked you several times to define the terms you were using, and you cut those parts from your responses every time. It was a conscious effort on your part to avoid those questions, so I'm not about to go back and dig through the thread just for you to do it again.

Find them yourself. Then have some integrity for once and answer them.

 

[Balerion]

No David is now married with 3 kids of his own. My daughter has 2 kids as well. We are talking about things that happened 23 years ago.
The spirit talking to me said ..... "remember it is only a dream" like it was fantasy not a prediction of a future event.

Even your delusions think you're delusional.

 

[Robittybob1]

Even your delusions think you're delusional.

Is that said with respect? Or are atheists exempt from respect?

 

[Mazulu]

No David is now married with 3 kids of his own. My daughter has 2 kids as well. We are talking about things that happened 23 years ago.
The spirit talking to me said ..... "remember it is only a dream" like it was fantasy not a prediction of a future event.

I was trained by the Ascended Masters through direct psychic messages to be discriminating of what information is coming from a spirit. If a spirit says while your driving, "close your eyes and put your faith in God", don't do it or you will probably kill someone. I remember the night that they tested me to see if I had learned that lesson; and then someone stepped off the curb and I had to slam on my breaks. I didn't close my eyes, I didn't hit the man. I learned the lesson properly.

Anyway, I'm tired and probably not understanding your story. But if you think it was a spirit telling you that it came to David in a dream, then I believe you.

 

[Mazulu]

Read it again. "As a tool for discovering truth?"

Context, kid. Context.



It's not about forcing behavior. It's an observation.



If you'd bother actually reading the posts instead of littering the board with false bravado and pictures of giant sledgehammers (can't imagine what you're overcompensating for there, can we? ), you probably wouldn't be so confused right now. And I'm supposed to do the work, go back through all of the posts and find the questions you ducked? Why, so you can duck them again? I've asked you several times to define the terms you were using, and you cut those parts from your responses every time. It was a conscious effort on your part to avoid those questions, so I'm not about to go back and dig through the thread just for you to do it again.

Find them yourself. Then have some integrity for once and answer them.

Your playing games. What terms do you want me to define? Just list them already!

When are you going to define what you mean by "materialsim"? Stop being such a baby about it.

 

[Robittybob1]

....
Anyway, I'm tired and probably not understanding your story. But if you think it was a spirit telling you that it came to David in a dream, then I believe you.

Thanks, it definitely isn't an everyday event. Thank God for that.

 

[Bells]

I said to wegs last week that "my daughter is an atheist but I still love her".

But?

So I do respect their predicament.

Why is it a predicament?

The path I chose was not just for me.

Actually, yes it is.

If I were to apply your flawed logic, then I would say to you that my path to atheism is not just for me and you have to become an atheist.

I wasn't going to go to Heaven unless I can take the whole Earth with me. It was quite a challenge to think I would be willing give up everything for everyone. OK maybe it won't work but that was my desire and my intentions.

People aren't interested.

So back off.

No David is now married with 3 kids of his own. My daughter has 2 kids as well. We are talking about things that happened 23 years ago.
The spirit talking to me said ..... "remember it is only a dream" like it was fantasy not a prediction of a future event.

Spirits talk to you?

Do you see your children as possessions and you have predetermined their futures by deciding when they will marry? Or did the spirit do that for you when they were still children?

---

I was trained by the Ascended Masters through direct psychic messages to be discriminating of what information is coming from a spirit. If a spirit says while your driving, "close your eyes and put your faith in God", don't do it or you will probably kill someone. I remember the night that they tested me to see if I had learned that lesson; and then someone stepped off the curb and I had to slam on my breaks. I didn't close my eyes, I didn't hit the man. I learned the lesson properly.

 

[Robittybob1]

It's going to involve you coming into (for example) Randi's office before the event happens and describing what is going to happen and then having the event actually happen. Of course it can't be that "my daughter is going to feel sick" and then you ask your daughter if she feels sick and she says "yes".

I think you can see that it has to be more independent from your control than that.

In the past there have been people who claim "powers" to heal people. The practitioners really think they have those powers and their patients believe they do as well.

When you test the claims however they don't have any powers. When you don't let the healer know who is sick and who isn't. When you don't let the patients know which person is the healer and which one isn't.

Under those circumstances people don't improve anymore than randomness or the placebo effect would do the same thing.

Yes we're talking about things like wars, twin towers, aircraft carriers being nuked, those really major world shattering events.
But it got difficult, for would we take any preventative action?
Like if i saw an aircraft being down by a rocket, would we warn the CIA or interpol? For the warning might prevent the event happening. Or would we just sit back and let it happen? How divorced from real life can we become?

 

[Mazulu]

But?

Why is it a predicament?


Actually, yes it is.

If I were to apply your flawed logic, then I would say to you that my path to atheism is not just for me and you have to become an atheist.


People aren't interested.

So back off.


Spirits talk to you?

Do you see your children as possessions and you have predetermined their futures by deciding when they will marry? Or did the spirit do that for you when they were still children?

---

My bad! This is just a shit hole of hateful people. Go fuck yourself

 

[Robittybob1]

But?

Why is it a predicament?


If I were to apply your flawed logic, then I would say to you that my path to atheism is not just for me and you have to become an atheist.

Do you see your children as possessions and you have predetermined their futures by deciding when they will marry? Or did the spirit do that for you when they were still children?

"Do you see your children as possessions and you have predetermined their futures by deciding when they will marry? Or did the spirit do that for you when they were still children?" Please, that is a ridiculous thing to say to anyone.

"If I were to apply your flawed logic, then I would say to you that my path to atheism is not just for me and you have to become an atheist." But have you done that?

"Why is it a predicament?" - you might be unsure if the path you've chosen is the right one.

 

[Mazulu]

bells!!! I tell someone something very personal and special, and you call it shit?

Fuck you asshole!!! Fuck you and die you mother fucker!!!!

FUCK YOU BELL YOU HUMAN PIECE OF SHIT!!!!! FUCK YOU!!!!!

 

[Bells]

bells!!! I tell someone something very personal and special, and you call it shit?

Fuck you asshole!!! Fuck you and die you mother fucker!!!!

FUCK YOU BELL YOU HUMAN PIECE OF SHIT!!!!! FUCK YOU!!!!!

How very Christian of you. Did the spirits tell you to say that? Or did you come up with that all on your very own?

 

[Mazulu]

How very Christian of you. Did the spirits tell you to say that? Or did you come up with that all on your very own?

THIS IS MY FOOT UP YOUR ASS, MOTHERFUCKER!!!!

 

[Bells]

"Do you see your children as possessions and you have predetermined their futures by deciding when they will marry? Or did the spirit do that for you when they were still children?" Please, that is a ridiculous thing to say to anyone.

So is telling someone that spirits had told you who you would have sex with in the future and who and when or what your children would be marrying.

"If I were to apply your flawed logic, then I would say to you that my path to atheism is not just for me and you have to become an atheist." But have you done that?

Have I?

Have I told you that you have to become an atheist?

"Why is it a predicament?" - you might be unsure if the path you've chosen is the right one.

Which is not for you to determine or decide for anyone else. Everyone has their own path and their own choices. Respect it and back the hell off. If the path you chose is correct for you, then great for you. Does not mean everyone has to be just like you, believe just like you and make the same choices as you have done.