Irrational faith vs. rational faith.
I've never thought of "faith" in "categories" such as these. I've always viewed faith, as being attached to spirituality or religion.
There's alot you haven't thought about, and there are things you don't wish to think about.
Jan has shared his views pretty clearly in his "Darwinist" thread, the most important point of his being the crux of the thread -- one can't be both a supporter of Darwinian evolution and a believer in God. In my exchanges with Jan, it would seem that he sees no need to reconcile his faith with science, on this point.
Wegs, nothing that I have discussed with you requires faith, or belief. I could be an atheist and still come to those conclusions. It's all about comprehending what the scriptures are saying, not from any particular POV.
Well, I'm merely a lay(woman) who accepts the evidence used to support the theory of evolution.
You also think that I am displaying faith despite me explaining to you that faith is not a requirement to the comprehension of scriptures. IOW, you are adamant regardless of the facts.
What would it take for you to conclude that DE is not true?
Interestingly, I've always been the type who desires to know the theorist behind the theory. During the past few years and probably more so over the past year, I've researched more about Darwin and how he systematically denounced Christianity and then his belief in God.
Apart from what you've read, what do you know about Charles Darwin?
It is in learning about Darwin (as a person), that I've developed a more thorough understanding of evolution.
Why is this the case?
What have you learned about him that makes you believe we all evolved from goo?
And when I was a believer, I thought it possible to believe that God orchestrated evolution, as many theists believe.
They don't believe it, because it isn't connected to us. By that I mean you have to be fed the information over and over, then you accept it. If you don't accept it, you are percieved as anti-science, irrational, dumb, moronic, and all other descriptions people don't want to be associated with. It is the same pattern with all institutional religions.
You are still a ''believer'', but you've ''change sides'', moved with the times. No doubt, whatever development is made with this dominent belief system, you will accept, on the basis that the people disseminating the information know what they're talking about, not that you believe what they are saying.
What's the alternative?
But, evolution conflicts too deeply with religion and faith. The part that I couldn't reconcile with evolution was that faith proposes that God infused man with a soul, while evolution not only doesn't support that assertion, but offers nothing about it.
When we look at evolution as believers or not, that aspect of evolution is what becomes the pivotal point in evolution vs faith based discussions.
That's because it's designed to. The next stage in this belief is to convince it's followers that belief in God (even if He exists) is a futile excercise. That you may as well not believe in Him because He doesn't do anything. He's already played His role of starting the universe, His one and only role.
That aspect of evolution isn't talked about much in these conversations, but it really becomes the deciding factor for whether a believer can fully embrace evolution or not.
And for that reason it will never be talked about without the interference of certain types of atheists. They will disrupt it.
I don't think a believer can accept evolution in its entirety, therefore. Just going out on a limb, having chatted with you Jan about this topic, you seem less caught up in disproving scientific reasoning behind evolution as much as it just is a theory that collides with what you believe, in terms of your faith.
Once again, anything I've discussed with you does not require faith or belief. I think you keep bringing this up for your own piece of mind.
Take a lookaround, there is no discussion on what makes DE correct. At best you'll get a load of technical jargon, at worst they will throw links at you. Anyone who steps outside of the ''programme'' (Balerion's term. One thing we agree on), is seen as a betrayer. You'll find that there is no discussion on it, outside of affirmations, and competition. This is because it has no real substance. What do you think will happen when, after generations, God is all but a distant memory (if that). Do you think everyone will be happy?
jan.