Anti-Gay Church to Protest Ledger Funeral

[superstring01]

I'm back! Missed me?

You were gone?

Anyway, while I don't know much about this Church

Well, duh!

...you still need to remember that homosexuality is banned in Christianity

Christ never mentioned homosexuality, Norse. Stop operating like you have a clue. As I've told you in the past: Christianity doesn't have a set "doctrine"** there are vague areas that are subject to interpretation. Parts were added and deleted from the bible after Christ's death. Christ never called for the harm or destruction of anybody. All he preached was "love thy neighbor" and "believe in me, and you will get to heaven."

Good works and specific deeds weren't the way to heaven. I know it's tough when you're grasping at straws, and I know you want to be considered intelligent and knowledgeable, but why not try a little to actually learn something about what you speak before you begin feverishly patting a way on the keyboard?

and therefore what they are doing is following their religion.

Since you know so much, Norse, what are the "rules" of Christianity. Do me a favor: site facts this time and don't draw upon your, albeit, limited imagination.

Try super-duper hard and do some research, then come back and talk to us like you had a clue.

~String
____________________________________________________
**Example:
-Jehovah's Witnesses believe in good works, don't believe in Hell, don't believe in a "trinity" and don't believe that you'll "go to Heaven" (well, most believers that is), do believe that celebration of Christmas and Birthdays are a sin, do believe in "immersion" baptism as an adult as a consecrating part of being "saved", do believe that salvation can be lost, believe that homosexuals "convert" to being straight when a person accepts their doctrine
-Assembly of God believes that Hell may exist (but probably not), but that a God of love isn't the type of God to damn a person to such a place but under very specific and horrible circumstances, they do believe in the trinity, but don't believe in the infallibility of the bible, do believe in "immersion" baptism as an adult as a consecrating part of being "saved", they do believe that salvation can be lost, do believe that homosexuals can be saved and get in to heaven.
-Southern Baptists definitely believe in Hell, believe in the trinity, do believe in "immersion" baptism as an adult as a consecrating part of being "saved", believe in the absolute infallibility of the bible, believe that once a person is saved they are always saved and can get in to heaven, no matte what they do, don't believe that homosexuals can be saved
-Judaic Christians don't believe in Hell or celebrating Christmas and birthdays, don't believe in the trinity, believe that true baptism is when a man is circumcised and is immersed in water and that when he is baptized so is his wife and children, do believe that salvation is forever and cannot be lost, don't believe that homosexuals can be saved
-United Church of Christ believes that a person can be can be baptized at any time in life (including as an infant) by sprinkling watter on the head, do believe that homosexuality is okay in God's eyes, do believe that salvation is eternal and can't be lost, don't believe in Hell

I could go on and on, but you get the picture. You, however, should get a clue.

 

[Norsefire]

Pope said so, and Pope is head of Christianity, therefore 1+1=2

 

[superstring01]

Pope said so, and Pope is head of Christianity, therefore 1+1=2

From Wikipedia:

Catholic Church:
"The Pope (from Latin: papa, tutor;[1] from Greek πάπας (pápas); father - originally written πάππας (páppas), as in Odyssey VI.57)[2] is the Bishop of Rome, the spiritual leader of the Roman Catholic Church[3] and head of state of Vatican City. "

Lutheran Church Missouri Synod:
"The LCMS is headquartered in St. Louis, Missouri, and has about 2.5 million baptized members, approximately half of whom are located in the Upper Midwest, although it is represented in all 50 states, and is affiliated with other Lutheran sister churches worldwide. It is divided into 35 districts — 33 geographic districts, and two (the English district and SELC) non-geographic. The current president is the Rev. Dr. Gerald B. Kieschnick."

Assembly of God:
"The current General Superintendent of the General Council [of the Assembly of God] is Dr. George O. Wood. Dr. Wood's tenure began October 8, 2007 when the previous General Superintendent, Dr. Thomas A. Trask stepped down after 14 years of leadership."

Notice, different churches, different leadership.

Oh-- and there are churches the precede the Catholic church.

~String

 

[Carcano]

The critics are not really against the Westboro Baptist Church...they are against the Bible itself.

Does the Bible condemn homosexuality as an abomination?

Yes it does!

The Westboro Church is one of the last remaining truly Christian churches....drawing its teaching only from the scriptures, and not from secular humanism.

 

[superstring01]

Does the Bible condemn homosexuality as an abomination?

Where? Old testament?

The Westboro Church is one of the last remaining truly Christian churches....drawing its teaching only from the scriptures, and not from secular humanism.

Are you kidding? It's a church that doesn't permit it's members to marry outside the church, it protests funerals, it's members send pictures of recently departed people "burning in hell" to the parents and relatives of the deceased, it teaches that gay's should be executed (did Jesus believe in this), it teaches that disease is caused by evil spirits, and teaches that menstruation wouldn't occur if a woman's heart were truly pure?

Jesus never said A SINGLE WORD about "execution", "gays"... all the guy talked about was love and salvation through belief and reverence of God through Him. Later "men" added their own prejudices to the system, which idiots have taken for truth to this day.

That's nonsense.

~String

 

[Carcano]

It's a church that doesn't permit it's members to marry outside the church, it protests funerals, it's members send pictures of recently departed people "burning in hell" to the parents and relatives of the deceased, it teaches that gay's should be executed (did Jesus believe in this), it teaches that disease is caused by evil spirits, and teaches that menstruation wouldn't occur if a woman's heart were truly pure?

I dont know about the menstruation part, but the rest of it is very much in keeping with Biblical teaching....yes!

 

[Asguard]

and you people wonder why this is all Australians can see in this issue?

I think its cultural as well, for instance my family is catholic. My mother studyed theology as part of her teaching degree and teaches religion in a catholic school. However she has HUGE problems with some of the popes edicts for instance the ones against birth control. Most catholics here are like that, layed back and pick and chose what they think the pope was lissioning to god properly on.

It seems to most Australians that your country is full of fundementilists right up to the goverment. This wont help matters

 

[Carcano]

Jesus never said A SINGLE WORD about "execution", "gays"... all the guy talked about was love and salvation through belief and reverence of God through Him.

Christianity is not defined only by the teachings of Jesus in the Gospels.

Which is worse...to simply be executed, or to spend the rest of eternity being tortured in hell?

Jesus invented the hellfire speech.

 

[Carcano]

Where? Old testament?

Both old and new! And remember that Jesus upheld the teachings of the old testament, sometimes making them even more extreme.

1 Timothy

Homosexuals (those "that defile themselves with mankind") are included on the list of lawless, disobedient, unholy, and profane people. 1:10

Homosexuals (those "without natural affection") and their supporters (those "that have pleasure in them") are "worthy of death." 1:31-32

1 Corinthians

Paul lists ten things that will keep you out of heaven, including homosexuality and being "effeminate." 6:9-10

 

[superstring01]

Christianity is not defined only by the teachings of Jesus in the Gospels.

You're right-- there are hundreds, maybe thousands, of different definitions of Christianity. But to be succinct: the most fundamental definition is the belief in the teachings of Christ.

Which is worse...to simply be executed, or to spend the rest of eternity being tortured in hell?

You're kidding. You're about as clueless as Norse.

First: Jesus never said one iota about Hell or going to hell.
Two: Christianity's one overriding characteristic is of the grace of Jesus and that salvation is based upon NOT actions or deeds, but upon confession of faith through Christ. "Being" a thing was absolutely abolished with the nullification of the Old Covenant. You would know this if you knew what Christianity was.

Jesus invented the hellfire speech.

Did he? Where?

~String

 

[superstring01]

1 Timothy 1:10

"for adulterers and perverts, for slave traders and liars and perjurers—and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine"

Not quoting the words of Christ

1 Corinthians 6:9-10

"Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders"

Written by Paul, not spoken by Christ.

Everything you write is that of people, not Christ. Christ never called for anybody to be killed or hurt. Men did, especially men who were beginning to savor the first tastes of power they had over the fledgling religion.

~String

 

[Carcano]

First: Jesus never said one iota about Hell or going to hell.

Matthew 13:41-42
The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Matthew 18:8-9
If thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast them from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into everlasting fire.

Matthew 25:41, 46
Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels. ... And these shall go away into everlasting punishment.

Mark 9:43-48
...into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

Luke 16:22-24
And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

2 Thessalonians 1:8-9
In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction.

Revelation 14:10-11
The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever.

Revelation 20:14-15
And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

 

[Carcano]

Everything you write is that of people, not Christ. Christ never called for anybody to be killed or hurt.

If Jesus was not a member of 'the people' then he must be God incarnate right?

And who in the Bible has slaughtered more people than God himself?

 

[superstring01]

Matthew 13:41-42
The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Matthew 18:8-9
If thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast them from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into everlasting fire.

Matthew 25:41, 46
Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels. ... And these shall go away into everlasting punishment.

Mark 9:43-48
...into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

Luke 16:22-24
And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

2 Thessalonians 1:8-9
In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction.

Revelation 14:10-11
The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever.

Revelation 20:14-15
And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

The notion of hellfire in Judaism doesn't exist except for Satan and Demons. Hell in Aramaic/Hebrew (Sheol or Gehenna) are used interchangeably by those who erroneously translated the New Testament.

There are three types of "hell" that have been combined in the modern world: the realm of the dead, place of the damned (demons and Satan) and a place of eternal punishment.

In modern concepts we have totally lost the notion of what true hell is and "fire and brimstone" Christians automatically latch upon the version that suits their notions of eternity to make preaching just a little bit easier.

Do a little research on the inherent errors in the Aramaic-Greek-Latin-English translations of these concepts and then come back for informed discussion when you figure it all out.

 

[superstring01]

If Jesus was not a member of 'the people' then he must be God incarnate right?

No, he was (as Christians teach) "God become Man" he was mortal and subject to temptations of the flesh just like you and me.

And who in the Bible has slaughtered more people than God himself?

Old testament. The NT is something worth studying, but it's difficult for people to grasp when they latch on to the things that support their prejudices.

~String

 

[Carcano]

The notion of hellfire in Judaism doesn't exist except for Satan and Demons. Hell in Aramaic/Hebrew (Sheol or Gehenna) are used interchangeably by those who erroneously translated the New Testament.

The notion of hell as a place of punishment doesnt exist in the old testament at all.

In the new testament, two words are translated into 'hell'....Hades and Gehenna.

Both occur over 120 times in the NT describing a place of punishment for sinners.

Its a concept the Jews of Hellenistic and Roman times likely picked up from Zoroastrianism.

 

[Carcano]

No, he was (as Christians teach) "God become Man" he was mortal and subject to temptations of the flesh just like you and me.

Jesus as consubstantial with God or 'God become Man' are both strong indications that Jesus and God are on the same page...at the very least.

So again, who in the bible has slaughtered more people than God himself?

 

[Carcano]

Old testament. The NT is something worth studying, but it's difficult for people to grasp when they latch on to the things that support their prejudices.

I thought you wanted to access Christianity only through Jesus???

It is entirely Paul's idea that Jesus came to over ride the old testament. He needed this principle to sell his new religion to the Gentiles.

Jesus himself upheld the teachings of his forefathers...and further said nothing about the need for a new religion.

Matthew 5:17

"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.

I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.

Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven."

 

[Norsefire]

superstring, yes there are churches not under the control of the Pope, but those aren't real. The Pope is the only true Head of Christianity.

 

[superstring01]

superstring, yes there are churches not under the control of the Pope, but those aren't real. The Pope is the only true Head of Christianity.

So, people who aren't Catholic aren't Christian? Back this up.

Are you aware that there are churches that precede (in simple terms for you: that means they came BEFORE) the Catholic church? Are you aware that the words: "Pope" and "Catholic" never appear in the Bible and that Christ only calls for people to follow him and not be a part of any "Church". Are you aware that there were and still are hundreds of Churches that aren't connected to the Catholic Church which are still "true Christians"?

Are Lutherans and Eastern Orthodox Christians not Christians then?

Based upon what information do you make this claim, or is this something you spew out to justify your claims.

(BTW-- even the Pope has said that the Catholic Church isn't the only church to reach God-- but he happens to think it's the best).

Norse, let me warn you: If you're here just to antagonize, then I'd advise you against it. You are required to back up your claims. Understand?

I couldn't car less if you talk about how gays are evil: but when you purport to post facts, you are required to back them up.

Since you aren't either Catholic or Christian, you cannot make wild claims of fact just to suit your tastes.

~String