Another Religious Paraphenalia Trial

[PsychoticEpisode]

I live in Ontario, it's a province in Canada. That's like a state for you Yanks.

Anyhow, one day last year a devout Sikh was pulled over by the police because he wasn't wearing a helmet while riding his motorcycle. In Ontario it is law and he's given a ticket. The Sikh who was wearing a turban at the time of the incident challenges it in court. His defense is that his religion requires him to wear the turban. Anyway they get a lot of media coverage and the judge writes a 36 page ruling that finds the guy guilty as charged.

I really couldn't care less about the Sikh religion or any other religion for that matter but what I'm wondering is why a religion puts their requirements above the law? above the safety of the individual?

One more thing.... Is it fair to have the judge acquit the guy on religious grounds and place the Sikh biker in danger(no more protective helmet). If you were judge would you want that on your conscience? Would you blame yourself if the Sikh was killed in an accident because you let him go helmetless?

And now for the big question..... Will this kind of crap ever stop?

 

[Hapsburg]

Regardless of the guy's religion, the law is the law, and he should be prosecuted to the fullest extent for putting himself, and ultimately others, in danger.
I mean, he could have bought a special helmet to fit over his turban-covered head. Or worn the helmet in place of the turban. He was being a damn fool by not wearing a helmet at all, and should not be acquitted on such petty grounds.

 

[Adstar]

I live in Ontario, it's a province in Canada. That's like a state for you Yanks.

Anyhow, one day last year a devout Sikh was pulled over by the police because he wasn't wearing a helmet while riding his motorcycle. In Ontario it is law and he's given a ticket. The Sikh who was wearing a turban at the time of the incident challenges it in court. His defense is that his religion requires him to wear the turban. Anyway they get a lot of media coverage and the judge writes a 36 page ruling that finds the guy guilty as charged.

I really couldn't care less about the Sikh religion or any other religion for that matter but what I'm wondering is why a religion puts their requirements above the law? above the safety of the individual?

The Will of God is more important than the will of the state. The state can give its penalties and throw one into prison for a lifetime. God can give His penalty and throw one into the Lake of Fire for eternity.

Plus the wisdom of God is greater than the wisdom of the worldly authority so following His will is better.

One more thing.... Is it fair to have the judge acquit the guy on religious grounds and place the Sikh biker in danger(no more protective helmet).

The judge has to do whatever worldly legal system tells him to do. I don't expect fairness from a worldly judge; it is naive to have such expectations.

If you were judge would you want that on your conscience? Would you blame yourself if the Sikh was killed in an accident because you let him go helmetless?

If i was the judge i would allow the sikh to ride around as his conscience dictated to him to ride around. If the man gets involved in an accident and gets his head smashed then that was his free will decision to ride without a helmet. Therefore there would be no problem with my conscience. I don't believe in a fascist nanny state.

And now for the big question..... Will this kind of crap ever stop?

Yes. When Jesus returns and puts an end to all human worldly authorities.



All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[Myles]

I live in Ontario, it's a province in Canada. That's like a state for you Yanks.

Anyhow, one day last year a devout Sikh was pulled over by the police because he wasn't wearing a helmet while riding his motorcycle. In Ontario it is law and he's given a ticket. The Sikh who was wearing a turban at the time of the incident challenges it in court. His defense is that his religion requires him to wear the turban. Anyway they get a lot of media coverage and the judge writes a 36 page ruling that finds the guy guilty as charged.

I really couldn't care less about the Sikh religion or any other religion for that matter but what I'm wondering is why a religion puts their requirements above the law? above the safety of the individual?

One more thing.... Is it fair to have the judge acquit the guy on religious grounds and place the Sikh biker in danger(no more protective helmet). If you were judge would you want that on your conscience? Would you blame yourself if the Sikh was killed in an accident because you let him go helmetless?

And now for the big question..... Will this kind of crap ever stop?

Here in the UK Sikhs , unlike others, are not required to wear a helmet. But I agee with your judge's ruling.

If it illegal for a motorcyclist not to wear a helmet, there would be no problem if Sikhs chose not to ride a motorcyle. But as things stand, they are seeking a privelige not accorded to the rest of us.

 

[BeHereNow]

Hapsburg He was being a damn fool by not wearing a helmet at all,

]If helmets are good for motocycle drivers, they are good for car drivers.
Another example of discrimination.
Car drivers want privliges not accorded to cycle drivers.

 

[greenberg]

I really couldn't care less about the Sikh religion or any other religion for that matter but what I'm wondering is why a religion puts their requirements above the law? above the safety of the individual?

From the individual's perspective, the individual's philosophy/religion is always above the Law of the State.

From the perspective of the State, the individual's philosophy/religion is sometimes below the Law of the State, and sometimes the issue is moot.

As for the safety of the individual: There can be even vast discrepancies between what the Law of the State deems "safety", and what an individual deems "safety".

I don't know about the Sikh specifically, but a possible explanation is that not wearing a turban could be, from the Sikh perspective, more dangerous than not wearing a helmet. Perhaps they think that not wearing the turban could be a sign of rebellion against God, and that God will doom them if they rebel in any way (e.g. by not wearing a turban). And they certainly do not wish to risk being doomed, they rather die without a helmet but with proper sign of worship.

One more thing.... Is it fair to have the judge acquit the guy on religious grounds and place the Sikh biker in danger(no more protective helmet). If you were judge would you want that on your conscience? Would you blame yourself if the Sikh was killed in an accident because you let him go helmetless?

Despite a common opinion otherwise, the Law has nothing to do with morality. The Law has to do with ensuring that the pragmatic aspects of living in a society are handled in a manner that makes for a relatively functional society.

Of course, the more multi-cultural and multi-religious a society is, the more difficult it is to handle the pragmatic aspects of living in a society in a manner that makes for a relatively functional society.
Because the more multi-cultural and multi-religious a society is, the more forces there will be that want to be heard and that pull the society apart.

 

[PsychoticEpisode]

The Will of God is more important than the will of the state. The state can give its penalties and throw one into prison for a lifetime. God can give His penalty and throw one into the Lake of Fire for eternity.

Anarchy lives! Seems it really doesn't matter what a judge thinks because God is going to straighten us out anyway.

Plus the wisdom of God is greater than the wisdom of the worldly authority so following His will is better.

He's so wise. He lets judges make decisions even though it means nothing. Are we not mandated by Him to make sensible decisions...what for?

The judge has to do whatever worldly legal system tells him to do. I don't expect fairness from a worldly judge; it is naive to have such expectations.

Then you shouldn't get upset when someone calls you a moron for believing in such foolishness.

If i was the judge i would allow the sikh to ride around as his conscience dictated to him to ride around. If the man gets involved in an accident and gets his head smashed then that was his free will decision to ride without a helmet. Therefore there would be no problem with my conscience. I don't believe in a fascist nanny state.

The judge is a non-entity? What if he believes in God and free will like you? One of you would be wrong then, no?

Yes. When Jesus returns and puts an end to all human worldly authorities.

In the meantime the rest of us heathens will do our best to keep you from being killed unnecessarily.

 

[S.A.M.]

I think everyone should wear full body armour when they leave the house.

 

[Myles]

Anarchy lives! Seems it really doesn't matter what a judge thinks because God is going to straighten us out anyway.



He's so wise. He lets judges make decisions even though it means nothing. Are we not mandated by Him to make sensible decisions...what for?



Then you shouldn't get upset when someone calls you a moron for believing in such foolishness.



The judge is a non-entity? What if he believes in God and free will like you? One of you would be wrong then, no?



In the meantime the rest of us heathens will do our best to keep you from being killed unnecessarily.

You are absolutely right. We live in democracies, not theocracies. Laws can be challenged in the courts and posibly overturned. We can take to the streets and protest peacefully.But once a law is in place, it must be obeyed by all.

Sikhs are not being discriminated against for their beliefs. It sems to me they have two choices. In the first place, they can demonstrate the strength of their faith by refusing to ride motorcycles. In the second, they can choose to live in a society in whch the wearing of helmets is not compulsory.

 

[Myles]

I think everyone should wear full body armour when they leave the house.

Can I take it you have a particular country in mind ? Why not do as we do and lobby your government. If you get sufficient support, such a law could be implemented.

 

[S.A.M.]

Can I take it you have a particular country in mind ? Why not do as we do and lobby your government. If you get sufficient support, such a law could be implemented.

The one with most accidents of course, where just being a pedestrian could affect your chances of making it through the day.

 

[Myles]

The one with most accidents of course, where just being a pedestrian could affect your chances of making it through the day.

Well. don't just sit there; do something about it !

 

[Prince o palities]

He put it above the law because religious people, particularly the classically theistic, must necessarily believe that there is something that transcends human institutions. I'd be disappointed if he had worn a helmet, if it defied the fundamental principles of his religion.

He should not have been aquitted (though I personally don't understand the point of laws designed to force people to protect themself...I don't see how he is a danger to others by wearing a turban not a helment, only to himself) because he broke the law. What he ought to have done is bought a car instead of a motorcycle. If your religion requires you to do something that makes it impossible for you to legally ride a bike, then make a sacrifice for your religion and get a sedan like everyone else.

 

[SnakeLord]

(...I don't see how he is a danger to others by wearing a turban not a helment, only to himself)

I wonder what kind of damage would be done to the poor 5 year old girl that witnessed some guy not wearing a helmet have his head crushed like a grape after colliding with a car.

 

[spidergoat]

If the religious practice is so important to the Sikh, and there is a helmet law in Canada, THEN MAYBE HE SHOULDN'T BE RIDING A MOTORCYCLE.

 

[S.A.M.]

They should create a Sikh Helmet.

There are precedents in Sikh history

Or they can wear a patka. The helmet would go over it.

 

[spidergoat]

Why don't they wrap a turban around the outside of a helmet?

 

[S.A.M.]

Why don't they wrap a turban around the outside of a helmet?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbvXAbJdz1U

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXPrN3EI5hM&feature=related

Here's an original Sardarji tying a gorgeous turban

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8kphlX9gcX0&feature=related

 

[sowhatifit'sdark]

I wonder what kind of damage would be done to the poor 5 year old girl that witnessed some guy not wearing a helmet have his head crushed like a grape after colliding with a car.

That's a good argument to outlaw motorcycles in general, but a weak one in relation to helmets.

Your argument would also be a good one in relation to hang gliding, with or without helmets, parachuting, hunting and so on.

Hell, driving could be seen as a crime in general. Viva public transport, reduce the number of fatalities children observe.

 

[Lori_7]

I live in Ontario, it's a province in Canada. That's like a state for you Yanks.

Anyhow, one day last year a devout Sikh was pulled over by the police because he wasn't wearing a helmet while riding his motorcycle. In Ontario it is law and he's given a ticket. The Sikh who was wearing a turban at the time of the incident challenges it in court. His defense is that his religion requires him to wear the turban. Anyway they get a lot of media coverage and the judge writes a 36 page ruling that finds the guy guilty as charged.

I really couldn't care less about the Sikh religion or any other religion for that matter but what I'm wondering is why a religion puts their requirements above the law? above the safety of the individual?

One more thing.... Is it fair to have the judge acquit the guy on religious grounds and place the Sikh biker in danger(no more protective helmet). If you were judge would you want that on your conscience? Would you blame yourself if the Sikh was killed in an accident because you let him go helmetless?

And now for the big question..... Will this kind of crap ever stop?

first of all, the law is so "big brother". i'm so sick of the government telling us what to do and how to live and take care of ourselves. it's one thing to put someone else in danger, but if it's your head then it should be your decision...

secondly, and in regards to the religious and their ceremonial b/s...IT'S A HAT!