!! an atheist knows what's gonna happen to him after death!!

Sorry Scifes, I just noticed you requested to be banned. Hope you get to do some study in physics and biology. See ya.
 
Enmos said:
You call that evidence ?

As for the difference between sane and insane being empirical, I'm really not required to evidence that because it's off-topic.
But I'll humor you:

em⋅pir⋅i⋅cal
–adjective
1. derived from or guided by experience or experiment.
2. depending upon experience or observation alone, without using scientific method or theory, esp. as in medicine.
3. provable or verifiable by experience or experiment.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/empirical
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ID in the sense that I described is empirical speculation.
 
Enmos said:
Ok.
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What do you mean, ok?

It is!

Given: Intelligence exists
We observe: intelligent entities can alter [stuff]

Given: everything has a cause
Given: everything observable is either intelligent or not
We conclude: everything that happen(s) is caused naturally or by deliberate action on the part of intelligence

The above is especially true on earth and absolutely applies; if you come across a factory in the forest, you understand 1) the factory exists and 2) something "caused" the factory; you might conclude that intelligent entities are behind the factory, or that it simply arised naturally, although the former makes more sense to me.

Given: the universe had a beginning
Given: the above

As we don't know what caused the universe, we conclude, based on observation, that the universe either formed without intelligent cause, or because of/with it (one's justification for this could be to point to the "fine-tuning" of the universe, or the sheer complexity of it); ironically enough, intelligence causes complexity, yet it is caused by simpler processes and mechanisms
 
Enmos said:
Well, it's speculation alright.
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I never said otherwise; but it's logical speculation. If you come across a factory in a forest, and you conclude that people built this factory, then that is also speculation. However it is based on previous knowledge and logic.

Similarly, we understand that intelligence can exist, intelligence can deliberately act to arrange complexity; as we don't know what caused the universe, we can still conclude that it was either caused deliberately or accidentally.
 
Enmos said:
It's still wrong.
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What is wrong about it? You do not know what caused the universe; nobody does, and there's no evidence for it being accidental or deliberate. One could argue that it was deliberate on various grounds:

1) the above that I said
2) the "fine-tuning"
3) the complexity of it

Although I'm not suggesting complexity can't arise from natural means, because in fact all complexity does arise from simpler, natural means. However the question is about our universe.
 
Enmos said:
Because I think it's stupid.
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Why? I really want to know why you think it is stupid.

With the great scope of our universe, and possibly many universes beyond, I think it's actually more unlikely that we are alone.
 
Enmos said:
I agree.
Now, leave me alone. Pretty please ?
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NO!!!!

Why do you think it's stupid?? If you agree that it is unlikely that we are alone, then it isn't stupid. Because that's all it means, except that not only are we not alone but that intelligence is responsible for our universe.
 
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