An apology to religion
- Thread starter Pipes75
- Start date
Seeing you post on sciforums, I'm sure that doubts will hit you soon!(they hit me hard) But stay strong!
Pipes,
What do you think you have been saved from?
Faith has zero value - it simply means believing something true with no evidence for support. It might make you feel good but don't confuse that what you believe has any basis for claiming a truth.
Understand the difference between belief of a proposal where there is evidence and belief where there is none. One is a rational position the other is irrational.
You are phsyically real and you have no basis to suspect you are anything else.
What is a god? Note there are some 3000 differnt versions man has recorded, and all are just as fanciful as each other. Why pick any of them? What evidence can you point to that might support your choice?
What do you think you have been saved from?
Faith has zero value - it simply means believing something true with no evidence for support. It might make you feel good but don't confuse that what you believe has any basis for claiming a truth.
Understand the difference between belief of a proposal where there is evidence and belief where there is none. One is a rational position the other is irrational.
You are phsyically real and you have no basis to suspect you are anything else.
What is a god? Note there are some 3000 differnt versions man has recorded, and all are just as fanciful as each other. Why pick any of them? What evidence can you point to that might support your choice?
Just for the record pipes, doubts never hit me.
And cris, you're full of shit. Faith is trust in something you know. You just don't know.
you believe this to be true or you have evidence?
You made the statement that faith has zero value.
we're waiting for the evidence
A brief look at "philosophy" in wiki indicates a greater percentage who disagree
Kind of like the medical industry.
One doctor wants to change my diet. Another wants to give me pills. Another gives me ointment. Another wants to operate. Another wants to use acupuncture. Another gives an exercise routine.
When on earth will these bozos make up their mind and arrive at one means?
Even the medical industry becomes a conundrum for as long as one cannot see the singular value of "improved personal health".
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M*W: No, Adstar, it's not about pride. I have never been a prideful person, even though you might think so. However, I have had to survive in a very tough world and had to make sure others survived, too. Belief in a deity would have been a delusion, and I wouldn't have survived waiting on some higher power to take control. I had to be strong for myself and my family to survive a life you just wouldn't believe anyway. There is no god to thank for it.
In your imagination which supports your egotistical agenda it doesn't.
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M*W: Hi Lori. I'll be nice this time. What do you mean when you refer to "communion." Do you mean like humanity as a whole or a religious sacrament like bread and wine?
I agree with you that one's experience with a higher power is a personal experience. You present an interesting concept that "when communion is restored, religion will become obsolete." I would just like to hear more about it. Thanks.
There is no such thing as your own universe and why would you thank something you want nothing to do with?
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M*W: What is egotistical (prideful) about trusting in onself? Unless a person can do that, he's condemned to failure (whatever that may be on a personal level). It's not an option.
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M*W: Balance may come to people through different ways. Some may find balance in religion. Others in spirituality. I found it through self-determination.
I like the way you describe it, "...(balance) gives you peace in a world that is drenched in violence, perversion, and calamity." "...to allow that balance on the inside manifest to the outside (as in the real world), thus changing the world to align itself with the peace that you feel." It always begins within the person and manifests outwardly into the world. I can totally identify with that.
Lg,
To show a truth also requires evidence; hence a truth cannot be claimed if evidence is absent.
From that we can see that faith is not a basis for a truth.
Why do people choose to claim something true without any evidential basis? It is that inherent human quality of curiosity and our powerful desires to know answers and the desire to have any answer tends to outweigh the rational process of proof. I.e. we feel good when we think we know something.
If knowledge exists then the term “faith” becomes redundant, one can simply show the evidence and faith is not needed. Faith is only called when evidence is absent.
To show a truth also requires evidence; hence a truth cannot be claimed if evidence is absent.
From that we can see that faith is not a basis for a truth.
Why do people choose to claim something true without any evidential basis? It is that inherent human quality of curiosity and our powerful desires to know answers and the desire to have any answer tends to outweigh the rational process of proof. I.e. we feel good when we think we know something.
Proven above.
And as yet NO ONE has shown anything that does NOT have a physical basis. Can you show otherwise?
And the difference is that you can try all these medical suggestions and test them for yourself. One cannot do the same for 3000 different fantasies. They are unreal and untestable.
lori,
And further, given the enormous fantasitic nature of the claims then fantasy is by far the more credible explanation.
Whatever the state of my imagination or egotistical nature, neither changes the certainty that you cannot distinguish between what you claim to KNOW and FANTASY.
And further, given the enormous fantasitic nature of the claims then fantasy is by far the more credible explanation.
Its not clear how one can even approach the issue of knowledge without first coming in touch with faith.
For instance suppose you want to know how to fix your car.
What's the first thing you do?
and to take that a step further evidence cannot be claimed until one is first qualified. If it was otherwise there would be no need to go to two different places if one is seeking both legal and car mechanical advice.
actually all that is seen at the moment is that you have glossed over the details as to how one would begin to become knowledgeable.
Along similar lines, why do people choose to deride the knowledge based claims of others while neglecting the prerequisites of qualification? It is the inherent human quality of pride and our powerful desire to assert dominance in all fields that tends to outweigh the rational response that only certain professionals have scope to certain professional fields. I.e. we feel good when we think we know something.
There's heaps of things.
Life for one (unless of course we want to accept post dated rain cheques ... a practice hardly compatible with empiricism)
Ironically, we usually determine whether something is real or not after we test them .....
Ok thanks!
The ritual with the bread and wine is symbolic of a real thing, that I see as the whole point of the bible.
That now, we have a defect that the bible calls sin. Its defined as genetic, as it is inherent in our flesh. Jesus was told to be free of this defect. It is said to separate us from god and each other, causing us to suffer and apparently die.
When we are reborn into the kingdom (we being the church), we will be reborn with the same sinnless flesh (redeemed) and communion will be restored.
Religious people are always talking about the blood of christ. It heals, redeems, saves. In the ceremony. The wine which represents his blood is contained in a vessel, the holy grail. The body is also a vessel for blood. The church is also the body of christ and his bride. This indicates to me that when the sinless blood of christ is married with the church, our bodies, through rebirth, communion will be restored. We will be perfected, and suffer no more.
I don't really think that was his point. But to answer your question, the more I trust god the more I do trust myself. God has taught me more about myself than anything else. And gods been right.
I certainly can distinguish between fantasy and reality regarding my own life's events, and you imagining that you might be able to do that better than I, never having experienced my life's events yourself is not only egotistical, its ridiculous. Your claims are entirely unsubstantiated and based upon nothing other than what you want to believe.
We are stardust, we are golden. :m:
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M*W: Oh, but that's where you are wrong. Each of us do have our own universe, even theists, if they would just try to understand it for a nanosecond. Our mere existence emanates outwardly from each of us into the greater scheme of existence whether one admits it or not. There is an interconnectedness with all creation. We are not alone in this process. Everything we think and do affects us and everyone else. You were talking about balance yesterday. Understanding our place in the universe helps us find that balance. It comes from within, and not from some religion or holy book which is from without.