An apology to religion

[Pipes75]

I finally found my salvation!
My path was very long and intense.
While I was on my personal journey, I was still consumed with my physical reality. So, I naturally tried to bring others on my journey with me.

I now finally understand that their are many paths to salvation!

For me, knowledge was always more important then believe. However knowledge didn't mean much if I didn't understand! Because of that, faith without evidence was never enough for me, I saw it as 'blind faith' and I was against it not only for me, but for everyone!

I now realize not everyone needs to understand knowledge to know the truth!

I saw religion for all the literal things I was against, so I never attempted to fully understand the spiritual side of it! I found my salvation without religion, but then realized - damn, that book I was so against, is not a book of my physical reality, but a book of the spiritual reality I never understood!
When taken spiritually, I now see the truth in religion - I just couldn't see it until after I found the answers I needed. I never needed religion to get my salvation, and I won't need religion to keep mine neither, but I now see how religion can be one of the paths.

I wanted something so pure, I forgot about balance - and ironically I am a Libra!

I looked at my wonderful physical reality, and gazed into the one life of my universe, and I asked tons of questions, and I was consumed by it all - but I took for granted all the life inside of me!

When I questioned God, one of the reasons for my questioning was because of all the needless suffering I saw in my physical reality, and I wondered what kind of a God could exist in such a cruel world? I didn't recognize the needless suffering I was doing to myself by consuming myself with the sorrows of the world.
A message I received near the end of my journey went something like this:

'What kind of a God could exist, well you are the God of your own body. You searched for answers everywhere yet you ignored the lives that saw you as God, the life in you. You did not do this with purpose or intent, but you did this nonetheless. John, you have told many people and you may have been right even when you didn't really understand, now hear it from within and hear it for yourself Ignorance is Bliss

The multiple meanings everything has, well it's amazing, and since I took a longer road needing to understand knowledge, I see many things much better now. I had so many misinterpretations, that even when I had the answers, I didn't know I knew!!!!

I just found my salvation, and I haven't slept in a couple days, my body is tingling with joy, after I had a long heart to heart with myself about the ignorance I had.

I got myself so attached to this physical reality, I know I can't get to the full side of my spiritual reality right now, but I understand why. I'll still tap into my spirtual side all the time, but the pureness can wait till my physical is done. The rest of my physical pressence, I need to make up for some lost time with the life within me! I want to live a healthier lifestyle, although I kinda see multiple meanings to this too - everything has multiple meanings, and I don't understand it all, I just got to the point where I know enough to find what I needed for me!


Special note to Lori, thanx for the patience dear, I think I needed to question someone with strong enough faith, since I found my salvation through a much different journey. Before I found it, I couldn't understand - you knew without knowing how you knew, but you allowed me to ask questions and you never got offended - many individuals helped me without realizing, I've thanked a few of the ones that are face to face but I wanted to give you some special thanx. You helped me find what I needed, and you didn't even realize you were helping me - I was one of the blind, that thought I was awake to a blind world!!!!!

 

[Lori_7]

Wow. Welcome to the kingdom john. With your new eyes, you'll never see things the same again. Its like getting reborn. Sometimes a different perspective makes things a bit harder, but knowledge and understanding as to why things are the way they are in this world will give you peace, even in the midst of calamity, and the knowledge of a greater power that you are a part of, and that is for the greater good makes you fearless.

Your path hasn't ended here, its just begun. Focus on your desires and intentions and god will take care of making you, like a fine diamond from dust through a fire over time.

Often times you have to be broken to be rebuilt and that hurts, but always coming out the other end, you will be stronger and grateful.

Realize that god doesn't want willful acts of discipline and denial from you, but for you to understand and commune with him in love and unconditional acceptance.

Your post made me very happy this morning.

 

[PsychoticEpisode]

An apology to religion

Ahhh, how nice. Not sure if it is proper to wade in on an apology but this is an open forum so I guess everything is fair game.

Unfortunately Pipes, it is religion that should be apologizing to you. I get the feeling that you're up there in years, if that 75 in your username is any indication. Not uncommon for the elderly to connect with religion. Even atheists can go bad when one's mortality is in question'

Oh, get some sleep man or you'll be putting that new found feeling to the test before you know it. I don't think this is an apology to religion as much as it is an attempt to cover all the bases.

 

[Lori_7]

Ahhh, how nice. Not sure if it is proper to wade in on an apology but this is an open forum so I guess everything is fair game.

Unfortunately Pipes, it is religion that should be apologizing to you. I get the feeling that you're up there in years, if that 75 in your username is any indication. Not uncommon for the elderly to connect with religion. Even atheists can go bad when one's mortality is in question'

Oh, get some sleep man or you'll be putting that new found feeling to the test before you know it. I don't think this is an apology to religion as much as it is an attempt to cover all the bases.

I agree with you PE, that religion should be the one apologizing to us. BUT so many use its ills as a scapegoat, a justification of a denial of god, and that's wrong too.

 

[PsychoticEpisode]

I agree with you PE, that religion should be the one apologizing to us. BUT so many use its ills as a scapegoat, a justification of a denial of god, and that's wrong too.

It doesn't have to apologize, just go away.

I personally don't deny God because of religion and I doubt that many atheists do. It's much more than that. For me it's more about being in control of my self, if that makes any sense.

No, religion reveals the human condition or is it conditioning., much more intriguing.

 

[Lori_7]

It will go away.

 

[PsychoticEpisode]

It will go away.

Which ever one leaves I'm afraid another will take its place. I hope not but if history means anything then it's a given.

I just don't understand why a belief in God needs a religion attached to it. Why is belief not a private matter? It should be okay to say either "I believe" or "I don't believe" without a whole bunch of baggage to go along with it.

Being a believer is such a convoluted process, there's so much other crap to believe also. It shouldn't be that tough to just believe in a god.

Funny how theistic religion is an easy target for skeptics, much easier to debunk than a god. It's easy to say 'no god' but awfully hard to prove. Having no religion would make the theist position stronger than it is with it.

 

[Adstar]

I finally found my salvation!
My path was very long and intense.
While I was on my personal journey, I was still consumed with my physical reality. So, I naturally tried to bring others on my journey with me.

I now finally understand that their are many paths to salvation!

For me, knowledge was always more important then believe. However knowledge didn't mean much if I didn't understand! Because of that, faith without evidence was never enough for me, I saw it as 'blind faith' and I was against it not only for me, but for everyone!

I now realize not everyone needs to understand knowledge to know the truth!

I saw religion for all the literal things I was against, so I never attempted to fully understand the spiritual side of it! I found my salvation without religion, but then realized - damn, that book I was so against, is not a book of my physical reality, but a book of the spiritual reality I never understood!
When taken spiritually, I now see the truth in religion - I just couldn't see it until after I found the answers I needed. I never needed religion to get my salvation, and I won't need religion to keep mine neither, but I now see how religion can be one of the paths.

I wanted something so pure, I forgot about balance - and ironically I am a Libra!

I looked at my wonderful physical reality, and gazed into the one life of my universe, and I asked tons of questions, and I was consumed by it all - but I took for granted all the life inside of me!

When I questioned God, one of the reasons for my questioning was because of all the needless suffering I saw in my physical reality, and I wondered what kind of a God could exist in such a cruel world? I didn't recognize the needless suffering I was doing to myself by consuming myself with the sorrows of the world.
A message I received near the end of my journey went something like this:

'What kind of a God could exist, well you are the God of your own body. You searched for answers everywhere yet you ignored the lives that saw you as God, the life in you. You did not do this with purpose or intent, but you did this nonetheless. John, you have told many people and you may have been right even when you didn't really understand, now hear it from within and hear it for yourself Ignorance is Bliss

The multiple meanings everything has, well it's amazing, and since I took a longer road needing to understand knowledge, I see many things much better now. I had so many misinterpretations, that even when I had the answers, I didn't know I knew!!!!

I just found my salvation, and I haven't slept in a couple days, my body is tingling with joy, after I had a long heart to heart with myself about the ignorance I had.

I got myself so attached to this physical reality, I know I can't get to the full side of my spiritual reality right now, but I understand why. I'll still tap into my spirtual side all the time, but the pureness can wait till my physical is done. The rest of my physical pressence, I need to make up for some lost time with the life within me! I want to live a healthier lifestyle, although I kinda see multiple meanings to this too - everything has multiple meanings, and I don't understand it all, I just got to the point where I know enough to find what I needed for me!


Special note to Lori, thanx for the patience dear, I think I needed to question someone with strong enough faith, since I found my salvation through a much different journey. Before I found it, I couldn't understand - you knew without knowing how you knew, but you allowed me to ask questions and you never got offended - many individuals helped me without realizing, I've thanked a few of the ones that are face to face but I wanted to give you some special thanx. You helped me find what I needed, and you didn't even realize you were helping me - I was one of the blind, that thought I was awake to a blind world!!!!!

And so the journey begins.



All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[Adstar]

It doesn't have to apologize, just go away.

I personally don't deny God because of religion and I doubt that many atheists do. It's much more than that. For me it's more about being in control of my self, if that makes any sense.

Being the master of your own universe. Problem is you cannot be the master of your own universe and you never will.

It's just another of prides induced delusions.

All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[Pipes75]

I am older, my journey was crazy.
Born in 1975 isn't that old, but too old to just be finding my truth.

Because of my way, it took much longer.

Religion owes me no apology - the books tell you the stories are spiritual and I took them literally. Just because many others misinterpret all religions too, doesn't mean I shoulda attacked it so hard. You need to understand, I hated 'blind faith' - and I now see Faith is good enough to those that never doubt it. I doubted, so that was not my path - many paths.

The meaning of Life is simply One Thing. And many know it.

Not all figure out that Mind, Body and Soul all have a separate One Thing.

To the mind, One Thing is simply the one thing most important to your physical life, and then you make it happen. This can be one life long goal (for those that never doubt) but after taking so long to awake, I'm starting mine with making people aware of my new found knowledge.

To the body, One Thing is being at peace with yourself. After years of neglecting my body, I have just found this - but knowing and doing are 2 separate things. I want to live healthier now, but I haven't started yet, many bad habits for me to break.

To the soul, One Thing is being at one with the universe.

Now, even when I didn't think I knew anything, I always knew One was the answer. I tried to find unity in my physical world because of my misinterpretations. I was consumed by it, and I couldn't understand anyone that could trust things I never trusted. I still see our world unity as an inevitable one day, but no need for me to be consumed with speeding up the cycle! I hated the control of my world, and wanted so bad to control our life cycle (sub-conciously).
When everyone is ready it will happen, it doesn't have to be during my physical time, but it will happen - what was my big rush?

I just don't think anyone should have to take the same type of intense journey as I did, so I thought I'd share. When I tapped into the spiritual side, it showed me peace, but I was not at peace when I entered!

With that, if anyone else that ever tapped into meditation and/or spirituality before they had peace has any tips on ways to deal with the intesity naturally, I've got ears.
I know what I need to, but after so long, I still have to convince myself of some things.
I haven't slept at all in 2 days, not even with a sleeping pill. I hadn't slept much the days leading up to this neither. Will I sleep again? I need my sleep don't I?

It's like I went to spirituality when I was hyper, and now I am having trouble relaxing, even though I feel at peace - hard to explain, but I'm still really wired, yet I don't know why - I finally feel peace, and I'm hyper about it all! Meditation is always peace first, I somehow triggered mine with absurdities and questions that I would never stop until I got hit hard. I'm good with it, but I want to be able to physical sleep, my eyes are bugging out!!!
I'm just not sure if this is normal after an epiphany or not. Not sure how many 'scietific/logical thinking minds' have also went here, because the lack of peace when entering is the key to my super hyper no sleep eyes bugging out stuff - will I come down a bit after it's all absorbed, or should I seek some attention?
I talk too much with all this info, so seeking attention could lead to a lock down for me, lol.
Even though I finally understand, and I can share some knowledge out here, I can't stay calm when interacting, I'm too fasinated right now!
Too hyper with my understandings, because I wasn't at peace when entering, I think I need to quickly learn meditation, so I can bring peace to my sub-conscious that won't quit right now!

 

[jayleew]

Well, that's great. But, why did you need salvation? Who/what is saving you from who/what?

Remember, the goal should be to balance...just like you said, but it sounds you tipped the other way!

 

[Lori_7]

Which ever one leaves I'm afraid another will take its place. I hope not but if history means anything then it's a given.

I just don't understand why a belief in God needs a religion attached to it. Why is belief not a private matter? It should be okay to say either "I believe" or "I don't believe" without a whole bunch of baggage to go along with it.

Being a believer is such a convoluted process, there's so much other crap to believe also. It shouldn't be that tough to just believe in a god.

Funny how theistic religion is an easy target for skeptics, much easier to debunk than a god. It's easy to say 'no god' but awfully hard to prove. Having no religion would make the theist position stronger than it is with it.

You know I agree with you. I say it all the time, that atheists use religion as a scapegoat. Its disappointing because its too easy. Knowing god and experiencing god IS very personal. That personal aspect of it is all that matters. That's why when communion is restored, religion will become obsolete.

 

[Lori_7]

Being the master of your own universe. Problem is you cannot be the master of your own universe and you never will.

It's just another of prides induced delusions.

All Praise The Ancient Of Days

Adstar, you know that you do get what you want in this life. Especially in a spiritual sense, god and knowledge comes by your own initiative. Your thoughts and desires manifest, and there is power in that. What does god teach you? All about yourself. To be strong, and that you are powerful. That you matter. That through him you can change the world, the foundation of our existence, the ills of the flesh and of society don't stand a chance, but you have to want it, to understand redemption, and to believe.

 

[Lori_7]

I am older, my journey was crazy.
Born in 1975 isn't that old, but too old to just be finding my truth.

Because of my way, it took much longer.

Religion owes me no apology - the books tell you the stories are spiritual and I took them literally. Just because many others misinterpret all religions too, doesn't mean I shoulda attacked it so hard. You need to understand, I hated 'blind faith' - and I now see Faith is good enough to those that never doubt it. I doubted, so that was not my path - many paths.

The meaning of Life is simply One Thing. And many know it.

Not all figure out that Mind, Body and Soul all have a separate One Thing.

To the mind, One Thing is simply the one thing most important to your physical life, and then you make it happen. This can be one life long goal (for those that never doubt) but after taking so long to awake, I'm starting mine with making people aware of my new found knowledge.

To the body, One Thing is being at peace with yourself. After years of neglecting my body, I have just found this - but knowing and doing are 2 separate things. I want to live healthier now, but I haven't started yet, many bad habits for me to break.

To the soul, One Thing is being at one with the universe.

Now, even when I didn't think I knew anything, I always knew One was the answer. I tried to find unity in my physical world because of my misinterpretations. I was consumed by it, and I couldn't understand anyone that could trust things I never trusted. I still see our world unity as an inevitable one day, but no need for me to be consumed with speeding up the cycle! I hated the control of my world, and wanted so bad to control our life cycle (sub-conciously).
When everyone is ready it will happen, it doesn't have to be during my physical time, but it will happen - what was my big rush?

I just don't think anyone should have to take the same type of intense journey as I did, so I thought I'd share. When I tapped into the spiritual side, it showed me peace, but I was not at peace when I entered!

With that, if anyone else that ever tapped into meditation and/or spirituality before they had peace has any tips on ways to deal with the intesity naturally, I've got ears.
I know what I need to, but after so long, I still have to convince myself of some things.
I haven't slept at all in 2 days, not even with a sleeping pill. I hadn't slept much the days leading up to this neither. Will I sleep again? I need my sleep don't I?

It's like I went to spirituality when I was hyper, and now I am having trouble relaxing, even though I feel at peace - hard to explain, but I'm still really wired, yet I don't know why - I finally feel peace, and I'm hyper about it all! Meditation is always peace first, I somehow triggered mine with absurdities and questions that I would never stop until I got hit hard. I'm good with it, but I want to be able to physical sleep, my eyes are bugging out!!!
I'm just not sure if this is normal after an epiphany or not. Not sure how many 'scietific/logical thinking minds' have also went here, because the lack of peace when entering is the key to my super hyper no sleep eyes bugging out stuff - will I come down a bit after it's all absorbed, or should I seek some attention?
I talk too much with all this info, so seeking attention could lead to a lock down for me, lol.
Even though I finally understand, and I can share some knowledge out here, I can't stay calm when interacting, I'm too fasinated right now!
Too hyper with my understandings, because I wasn't at peace when entering, I think I need to quickly learn meditation, so I can bring peace to my sub-conscious that won't quit right now!

You're a lot younger than I am. Don't regret every moment of your life that brought you to this place, because now it all makes sense. This is the most life altering event. Your reaction is normal and appropriate. Enjoy it.

 

[Lori_7]

Well, that's great. But, why did you need salvation? Who/what is saving you from who/what?

Remember, the goal should be to balance...just like you said, but it sounds you tipped the other way!

In this world, it cannot be about balance. Its about tipping the scale.

 

[jayleew]

In this world, it cannot be about balance. Its about tipping the scale.

That kind of thinking is unhealthy. If you are constantly out of balance within, then that is chaos.

For example, if someone tips the scale with their "spirit" like I did and thought that they could live by rationality alone and remove emotionality, which was irrational, that person is dangerous. I was damaging myself and those around me because it is human nature to have emotions. It wasn't until I had undergone 15 weeks of counseling that I realized that we have to balance rationality and emotionality to achieve harmony with oneself.

When I brought balance to my thoughts and allowed emotions their place, order was restored. It is a balancing act.

On the other side of the coin, when someone tips the scale and dives into their emotions or irrational thought, that is a blindfold to reality, which also is not healthy.

Am I just overgeneralizing, or is there some truth to order and balance?

When you say "tipping the scale" it brings to mind someone who one day says there is no god, and the next day says there is, just for the sake of tipping the scale. Is this what you mean?

 

[Lori_7]

That kind of thinking is unhealthy. If you are constantly out of balance within, then that is chaos.

For example, if someone tips the scale with their "spirit" like I did and thought that they could live by rationality alone and remove emotionality, which was irrational, that person is dangerous. I was damaging myself and those around me because it is human nature to have emotions. It wasn't until I had undergone 15 weeks of counseling that I realized that we have to balance rationality and emotionality to achieve harmony with oneself.

When I brought balance to my thoughts and allowed emotions their place, order was restored. It is a balancing act.

On the other side of the coin, when someone tips the scale and dives into their emotions or irrational thought, that is a blindfold to reality, which also is not healthy.

Am I just overgeneralizing, or is there some truth to order and balance?

When you say "tipping the scale" it brings to mind someone who one day says there is no god, and the next day says there is, just for the sake of tipping the scale. Is this what you mean?

no. i'm not talking about an imbalance on the inside. i'm talking about a realization and a knowledge that comes from the spiritual (on the inside) that actually gives you peace in a world that is drenched in violence, perversion, and calamity. when i say "tip the scales", i mean to allow that balance on the inside manifest to the outside, thus changing the world to align itself with the peace that you feel.

 

[yasmin]

@ pipes and lori
I am really happy to see that this kind of communication and all the exchanges in ideas is so useful at the end and I believe everybody learns something even when we may not say it in public!!

 

[jayleew]

yasmin, indeed. I am off and on this site, but I always come back to tell what i've learned over the years, digest it here, and form new theories. Then, I go back into living life and test them out. It is really helpful to hash it out here because things like these controversial topics could inadvertently damage personal relationships.

i first met lori, as a Christian. She shared her story with me, I thought she was a nut. Over the years I became agnostic-atheist. Still thought she was a nut, but most times it is simply that I just don't understand what she's saying because her ideas don't come across right the first time to me. I almost forgot hehe.

pipes, I wouldn't appologize to religion. Like lori said, religion owes an appology to the world: theists and atheists alike. But, I believe you are right, I don't think religion can be discarded so hastily as most atheists say.

There is something to having a balance in thought and living life, I just can't put my finger on it yet. The reason I say this is (as I said in another thread) it is ignorant to expect that the truth will be found in our lifetime. We can hope, but we must not assume that the truth today is complete or will be in the near future. We must accept facts, scientific discoveries, and probabilities. But, living by an incomplete truth is lying to yourself, no matter how insignificant the chance that we are wrong. (even if we are right!)

It doesn't make a lick of sense to me (this god/spirit thing) because I don't believe in a god or the supernatural, and that's why I'm trying to come to some sort of working model or decision.

I give religion another 100 years in its current state. If it doesn't change its tenants, it won't last. Good riddance to religion as defined today! It is all based on fallible scripture, not on real life. Most theists have more faith in their scripture than they do their god.

 

[Adstar]

Adstar, you know that you do get what you want in this life. Especially in a spiritual sense, god and knowledge comes by your own initiative. Your thoughts and desires manifest, and there is power in that. What does god teach you? All about yourself. To be strong, and that you are powerful. That you matter. That through him you can change the world, the foundation of our existence, the ills of the flesh and of society don't stand a chance, but you have to want it, to understand redemption, and to believe.

Through Him there can be great change within ones self. And the changes within ones self do affect others whom we come into contact with. While these changes are real they do not place us in the perfect state. Any dramatic changes in the World at large could only come if the World at large accepted Him.

Most of the World does not accept Him. Therefore the only way a worldwide change will occur is when Jesus returns and the option of acceptance or rejection is removed.

He will come when He will come and it will happen.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days