An all loving God?

[okinrus]

The article is not well researched.

"Not only is this a geophysical impossibility, but an event of such magnitude would have been reported in the records of other civilizations throughout the world, but there is no mention of it."
Not quite.
http://www.grmi.org/renewal/Richard_Riss/evidences/7longday.html

It also assumes that Noah would have to sail around the world. While I don't accept the literal interpretation it is obvious that God would have to command the animals to enter the boat. Also saying the mountains were covered is different than all the mountains were covered. Completely misses the point of Noah's ark etc.

King Herod slaying all the children is not out of the ordinary considering what else King Herod did.

"Ezekiel 26 prophesies that Nebuchadnezzar will lay siege to the city of Tyre and destroy it, and it will be no more, and never be See! I am coming at you, Tyre; I will churn up against you many nations, even as the sea churns up its walls". This prophesy is found again. Yet history records that Nebuchandnezzar's siege was unsuccessful and Tyre eventually fell to Alexander the Great, was later rebuilt, and is currently inhabited. "
The text says in Ezekiel 26:3 "therefore thus says the Lord God: See! I am coming at you, Tyre; I will churn up against you many nations". However the real meaning behind this is apocalypical. The mainland of Tyre was destoryed by Nebuchadnezzar's 13 year seize. http://www.middleeast.com/tyre.htm I do think that it will be flooded under water but this has not happended yet.

If you deny your faith to save your life, you won't attain Heaven,

Does not say in the bible. Obviously God can forgive many sins even apostasty.

 

[Jesus]

God is not all Loving, People always try to fall back on a white pillow, its just a mistake, God will open his arms wide open, it just doesnt work like that, have you even read the Fictitous Human wrote Bible you live your lives on?.

 

[jcarl]

He is willing to accept anyone who will accept him. Yes he will send people to Hell, but that's because they rejected the Savior, Jesus Christ. He gave them the opportunity to accept what he'd given them, but they didn't accept it.

Jesus, if it doesn't work like that, then how does it work.

"If we confess our sins he is faithful and just and will cleanse us from all unrighteousness."

 

[Jesus]

He is your image, humans have always wanted him to be what they have wanted him to be. Mindwork isnt that hard, the Bible was created to help people cope with themselves, we now have over-learned the Bible as a Book, it is only Early-Science.

 

[Voltaire]

Originally posted by jcarl
I don't have that book here on me, so could you pick out just one thing that makes the Bible wrong?

according to the Jews, genesis was translated wrong. The people who knew the original hebreic language did not want any person to know the secrets of the kabbalah so they hid the true message. so in a way the Bible is not a farce, just a book that needs to be analized and cannot be taken literally. The book i was talking about was in Spanish and i am positive there is an english version. bye.

 

[jcarl]

Originally posted by Jesus
He is your image, humans have always wanted him to be what they have wanted him to be.

Yes, but that doesn't mean that he is what they wanted to be. Jesus is the same yesterday, today, and forever. No matter what we say or want

Mindwork isnt that hard, the Bible was created to help people cope with themselves, we now have over-learned the Bible as a Book, it is only Early-Science.

It was written to show people the way to eternal life. Simple? Yes. It takes child like faith to believe in ths
Over-learned? Do you know everything the Bible has to say.

 

[jcarl]

Originally posted by Voltaire
according to the Jews, genesis was translated wrong. The people who knew the original hebreic language did not want any person to know the secrets of the kabbalah so they hid the true message. so in a way the Bible is not a farce, just a book that needs to be analized and cannot be taken literally. The book i was talking about was in Spanish and i am positive there is an english version. bye.

So your saying the whole book was mis translated?

And we can't take the Bible as literal, which then means that our salvation was/is annuled. The Bible is not some big allegory. the Bible is all true, and I have no reason to believe it isn't. the "contradictions" are merely surface, if one has the guts to look further, then it clearly shows that they are complementary.

What exactly is this Kabbalah and why wouldn't they-who exactly is they--want others to know?

 

[malachite_mack]

Originally posted by okinrus
Many christians, not me however, interpret Job to be a fictional story with didatic purpose. In any case, the theme is apparent. Greater good comes from evil. By allowing Satan to tempt Job and by Job coming out victorious, Job shows the glory of God and himself. This would not be the case if Job was not tempted. At the end of the story, Job ends up being blessed more by God.

Just one problem: Look at all the people who had to die just for god to prove a point (which he didn't have to do because he's supposed to know everything anyway)!

So Job "passes the test". Big deal. How many people was satan allowed to kill (and take into hell, do you think?) It doesn't look to me like Job was even the target. The devil convinced god to let him kill of Job's servants and children! Guess who's got the more points out of that episode?

How in blazes can just standing by and let yourself and friends get beat on possibly be construed as "glorifying someone"? Even more so, how can a being who allows somebody else to kill and torture other people just to test the loyalty of someone be "glorious"? Sounds like an abusive parent or psychotic dictator to me....:bugeye:

 

[jcarl]

Originally posted by malachite_mack
Just one problem: Look at all the people who had to die just for god to prove a point (which he didn't have to do because he's supposed to know everything anyway)!

So Job "passes the test". Big deal. How many people was satan allowed to kill (and take into hell, do you think?)

Nah. I would find it hard to believe that Job's kids and servants wouldn't be believers also in God.

It doesn't look to me like Job was even the target. The devil convinced god to let him kill of Job's servants and children! Guess who's got the more points out of that episode?

How in blazes can just standing by and let yourself and friends get beat on possibly be construed as "glorifying someone"?

Simple, Job recognized that (a)"the Lord giveth and the Lord taketh away" Job 1:21 and (b) believed that God was in control at all times.

Even more so, how can a being who allows somebody else to kill and torture other people just to test the loyalty of someone be "glorious"?

If those children and servants are in heaven(and I have no reason to believe they're not), then what's the big deal? God is in control at all times, and he will have the final say. Chapters 38-41 are God saying essentially that he will do what is just. Granted, we can't always understand his methods, but it isn't our place to understand his methods.

The abusive parent never ulitmately reward the child do they? God does. Does the psychotic dictator give back twice what was taken away? God did. In the end God always does that which is right.

 

[okinrus]

Just one problem: Look at all the people who had to die just for god to prove a point (which he didn't have to do because he's supposed to know everything anyway)!

I don't believe that he knows our complete future. "for the LORD, your God is testing you to learn whether you really love him with all your heart and with all your soul". A God who knows the future cannot learn.

So Job "passes the test". Big deal. How many people was satan allowed to kill (and take into hell, do you think?) It doesn't look to me like Job was even the target. The devil convinced god to let him kill of Job's servants and children! Guess who's got the more points out of that episode?

Satan did not kill but God allowed him. Because Job succeded in passing the test, Satan was scorned.

How in blazes can just standing by and let yourself and friends get beat on possibly be construed as "glorifying someone"? Even more so, how can a being who allows somebody else to kill and torture other people just to test the loyalty of someone be "glorious"? Sounds like an abusive parent or psychotic dictator to me....

The story tells us that they went to heaven.

 

[wesmorris]

Originally posted by okinrus
A God who knows the future cannot learn.

Logically, a god that is perfect would have no need to learn.

Originally posted by okinrus
Satan did not kill but God allowed him.

Because Job succeded in passing the test, Satan was scorned.

The story tells us that they went to heaven.

Besides quoting scripture, how would you justify your assertions?

If you must answer with scripture, that directly implies that you find your knowledge warrented from the authority of the bible.

 

[okinrus]

Logically, a god that is perfect would have no need to learn.

Your idea of perfection is different than mine. I suppose this is one of the problems beliving only in rational perfection. Freedom is perfection as well.

Besides quoting scripture, how would you justify this position?

Unless if we claim that Satan is a god, then God must have allowed him.

Besides quoting scripture, how would you justify this position?

It is the nature of Satan to go up against God.

If you must answer with scripture, that directly implies that you find you knowledge warrented from the authority of the bible?

Job is a story in the bible. Knowledge about story from the bible must come from the same source.

 

[wesmorris]

Originally posted by okinrus
Your idea of perfection is different than mine. I suppose this is one of the problems beliving only in rational perfection.

What exactly would you consider to be rational perfection?

Originally posted by okinrus

Freedom is perfection as well.

Unless if we claim that Satan is a god, then God must have allowed him.

It is the nature of Satan to go up against God.

Job is a story in the bible. Knowledge about story from the bible must come from the same source.

Your comments seem to reflect a convoluted regurgitation of things you've derived from the bible. Why can't you answer a question directly? You did exactly what I asked you to avoid and then pretended you didn't do it, answering my questions with things you claim to know because they are written in the bible as such.

Can you please answer the questions directly?

 

[okinrus]

Satan means adversary. I'll leave it to you to find out who he's an adversary of.

If God did not allow Satan to kill someone then God is not all-powerful or God does not know everything.

 

[wesmorris]

Originally posted by okinrus
Satan means adversary. I'll leave it to you to find out who he's an adversary of.

If God did not allow Satan to kill someone then God is not all-powerful or God does not know everything.

That is completely non-sequiter and again, based on the authority of the bible. You're stuck in a loop.

 

[okinrus]

That is completely non-sequiter and again, based on the authority of the bible. You're stuck in a loop.

????????
Assume that God is all-powerful and knows everything that happens.

If Satan kills Job's son, then God must know that Satan went to kill Job's son and God must have the power to stop him.

Because God did not stop him, this then implies that God allowed him.

 

[wesmorris]

Originally posted by okinrus
????????
Assume that God is all-powerful and knows everything that happens.

Why?

Originally posted by okinrus

If Satan

What is satan? I know of no such thing. I know of an idea called satan. Can you provide justification for your claim of such a thing?

Originally posted by okinrus

kills Job's son

What evidence do you have to support that?

Originally posted by okinrus

then God must know that Satan went to kill Job's son and God must have the power to stop him.

At the moment I cannot bear to further dissect what you re present as reasoning. That is simply baseless or presumtive of "scriptures" as a credible source regarding the nature of the universe (with what you think you understand about "god" and the associated claims). You can't separate yourself from your presumption that all of that has some bearing on reality? You keep hypothesizing about god, satan and job without offering what I asked you for in the first place, a valid reason to lend them credence without assuming the bible to be an authoritative source of knowledge.

Originally posted by okinrus

Because God did not stop him, this then implies that God allowed him.

I ask that you support the assumptions required of your deduction. They are numerous.

 

[okinrus]

What is satan? I know of no such thing. I know of an idea called satan. Can you provide justification for your claim of such a thing?

It does not matter. In the context I'm using, Satan could be any strong man.

What evidence do you have to support that?

We are assuming that the story of Job was true. Well if the story of God was not true then you have to give up calling God hateful and cruel.

I was answering malachite_mack question, which assumed that Job was true.

 

[wesmorris]

Originally posted by okinrus
It does not matter. In the context I'm using, Satan could be any strong man.

I'm a strong man. Does that mean you think of me as Satan in this case? If so, exactly how does your commentary relate to the questions I've asked? You are almost exclusively non-sequiter in your responses.

Originally posted by okinrus

We are assuming that the story of Job was true.

You may well be but WE are not.

Originally posted by okinrus

Well if the story of God was not true then you have to give up calling God hateful and cruel.

I didn't but if I did I would do so regarding your proposal of his existence. Further you should understand that if god(s) did exist I would assume them to be completely beyond my comprehension. It's funny to me that people who DO claim that he/they exist don't show that kind of reverence. I believe that to be telling.

Originally posted by okinrus

I was answering malachite_mack question, which assumed that Job was true.

To answer my question with the answer to someone else's question is exactly non-sequiter. You should familiarize yourself with logical fallacies to avoid further nonsense.

 

[jcarl]

Originally posted by wesmorris

You may well be but WE are not.

Do you have reason to believe it wasn't true. And if it wasn't why would the author lie and say that it was true?

I didn't but if I did I would do so regarding your proposal of his existence. Further you should understand that if god(s) did exist I would assume them to be completely beyond my comprehension.

You assume correctly that God is beyond human comprehension in most respects, yet you[speaking to scientific communtiy] dismiss his existence on your carnal logic. That doesn't make sense.

It's funny to me that people who DO claim that he/they exist don't show that kind of reverence. I believe that to be telling.

Telling of what?