All the evidence and proof that telepathy exists that exists

[Tnerb]

This is also considering psychics. Psychic realm. As I always say we need clarification.

First, check out this post made in a very similarly titled thread....
I am considering making it the opening post. As everything in support of telepathy is denied.

With these points made, especially the last one, we should make a thread in disrespect to the deniers of telepathy. Not disrespect. But that the thread focuses on the issue. And is talked about. Anyway. I have already made several points which could be conversed over.

I will end with this single post. the user posting is 'ozzie'
[note that some itallics are not here]

Hi Brent,

Just some questions for the board:

1] Does something have to be predictable and repeatable at will to be proven as true?
2] Does a persons or peoples reaction to free floating pheromones in the air count as telepathy?
3] How far can air borne pheromones travel and
4] How acute is our ability to sense subliminally?
5] How does quantum entanglement effect notions of Faster than light speed communications and how could this be relevant to the issue at hand?
6] How strenuous would some one act to protect their hidden secrets do you think? [ we all have many secrets that we wish to remain as such]

Like your thread Brent.....

Tell me what sort of fears are associated with the revelation of true psychic abilties do you think? I think you already know the sort of anxiety that is experienced.

The fear of broadcasting your intent and thoughts is not just the priviledge of those deemed to be suffering Paranoid Schizophrenia. The general population also has tremedous concern about their internal privacy. In fact it is this paranoia of a loss of privacy that drives the desire to deny the reality of the psychic realm. [ Putting persons in psychiatric institutions as a consequence of their own instinctive fears instead of dealing with the reality]
Thus they will instinctively attempt to shut down someone who appears to be invading that privacy. Instinctive Self protection will function even if the person is a willing and voluntary participant in a telepathic experiment. This is manifested directly in the denial by society and the medical profession of the reality of their instinctive fears and how they will instinctively deny an "out of control psychic" the right to proper therapy and training and seek only to destroy or inhibit or obstruct any ability that person may have.

Best of luck!!




So. Let us talk about this. If you wish.

 

[VitalOne]

Ofcourse telepathy is real and exists....it just seems difficult to measure unless someone had the clear ability to read minds....we all have telepathy and use it on a daily basis....the only difference is that we believe that people's other thoughts are our own thoughts...

But empathy, thats a lot easier to test....

 

[Tnerb]

Thank you. And I agree.

It is possible to measure, however the people testing refuse to follow by the testers conditions. If they want it proven,- scientifically IMO that is all they need to do....

Anyway, there are many forms of telepathy, but all of this, is simply under debate apparently.

 

[VitalOne]

Thank you. And I agree.

It is possible to measure, however the people testing refuse to follow by the testers conditions. If they want it proven,- scientifically IMO that is all they need to do....

Anyway, there are many forms of telepathy, but all of this, is simply under debate apparently.

Well IMO people experience telepathy on a daily basis...there is this type of thought-energy (its what I call it) when other people's thought-energy comes upon us our mind reacts to it believing that its our own thoughts....but someone skilled at sensing and recognizing energy could see what are their own thoughts and what are other people's thoughts....

But this is very difficult to measure unless someone had very accurate telepathy skills....

 

[Tnerb]

Well IMO people experience telepathy on a daily basis...there is this type of thought-energy (its what I call it) when other people's thought-energy comes upon us our mind reacts to it believing that its our own thoughts....but someone skilled at sensing and recognizing energy could see what are their own thoughts and what are other people's thoughts....

But this is very difficult to measure unless someone had very accurate telepathy skills....

Thanks again. The only problem I am having with this, although I like it, is that others will not believe it. But you are likely right,

People do have this "thought-energy", this likely is absolutely true.

The bit about our believing it's our own thoughts it true, and happens with a lot of people.

And once again you are saying telepathy exists with your final statement and your first sentence too. I would have to say I agree, but it is pretty complicated if you see what I mean....

I would say, that people can go down to whatever level is possible for a human to experience. Anything is possible for the individual that is possible. It is, as an obvious example, possible for someone to become very disoriented and destroyed. This could cause their very social infrastructure, or whatever we would call it, to become also disordered. Or destroyed, whatever you want to say.

My point is, I experience what you are describing every day. But, it is not proven, and no one else will agree with us.

 

[VitalOne]

Thanks again. The only problem I am having with this, although I like it, is that others will not believe it. But you are likely right,

Yes, people will have problem believing anything without evidence....I base my beliefs upon my personal experiences...if you are able to sense energy then you can read emotions, minds, etc...everyone has this ability to a certain extent...for instance when two people are really angry at each other and you walk into a room you immidiately "feel" the tension....

People do have this "thought-energy", this likely is absolutely true.

Yes, from my own personal seach for the truth I found that matter is actually just a highly concentrated form of thought-energy...there are infinite realities or universes....and that we each exist in our own personal reality or universe....

The ancients called this "thought-energy" yi (intention) chi (energy) or prana (energy) and cittam (consciousness) they are like twins always in contact with each other...

People often associate this thought-energy with electromagnetism itself, but it is not electromagnetism, it travels though EMF waves though which is why it is often misunderstood as being electromagnetism....

The bit about our believing it's our own thoughts it true, and happens with a lot of people.

And once again you are saying telepathy exists with your final statement and your first sentence too. I would have to say I agree, but it is pretty complicated if you see what I mean....

Yes, this is what I've found from my own personal experiences..eventually when you start experiencing these things on a daily basis it is no longer seen as something supernatural or special at all and all doubt ceases...I can really careless what other people think...if something is really true...its true with or without evidence....I'll just seek continue seeking the actual truth....

If someone only looks at the current evidence at this present time (2007) then their knowledge is limited to the scope of evidence we currently have and therefore they are believing in something false, incomplete, and incorrect in many ways....in reality there are many things true that there is currently no evidence for since we don't have evidence of all...nor knowledge of all...

I would say, that people can go down to whatever level is possible for a human to experience. Anything is possible for the individual that is possible. It is, as an obvious example, possible for someone to become very disoriented and destroyed. This could cause their very social infrastructure, or whatever we would call it, to become also disordered. Or destroyed, whatever you want to say.

My point is, I experience what you are describing every day. But, it is not proven, and no one else will agree with us.

Yes, I also experience these things daily...the only way to get people to agree with us is to come up with some type of experiment that will undeniably prove these things...

So we should try to design a flawless experiment that would prove telepathy....but I don't know what that experiment could be...

 

[Tnerb]

Yes, people will have problem believing anything without evidence....I base my beliefs upon my personal experiences...if you are able to sense energy then you can read emotions, minds, etc...everyone has this ability to a certain extent...for instance when two people are really angry at each other and you walk into a room you immidiately "feel" the tension....

I have a question. It's kind of funny I know. Does this prove telepathy? Good to at least be able to talk about this with someone who is open minded (ie. skinwalker?)

Anyway.

Yes, from my own personal seach for the truth I found that matter is actually just a highly concentrated form of thought-energy...there are infinite realities or universes....and that we each exist in our own personal reality or universe....

This is very interesting.

Yes, this is what I've found from my own personal experiences..eventually when you start experiencing these things on a daily basis it is no longer seen as something supernatural or special at all and all doubt ceases...I can really careless what other people think...if something is really true...its true with or without evidence....I'll just seek continue seeking the actual truth....

This is almost poetic to me. Maybe I am deluded.

Yes, I also experience these things daily...the only way to get people to agree with us is to come up with some type of experiment that will undeniably prove these things...

So we should try to design a flawless experiment that would prove telepathy....but I don't know what that experiment could be...

Well. We describe articulately what we have been...
The only other option I see is getting QQ to go to a telepathy examination test, and prove it to the world. The only other flawless proof of telepathy that actually exists,... is someone else, or me: we can get a tester to see me, if we want more than life itself to prove telepathy. However we would have to come to an agreement saying they will follow the conditions I ask. They will preform it at my house,

etc

 

[VitalOne]

I have a question. It's kind of funny I know. Does this prove telepathy? Good to at least be able to talk about this with someone who is open minded (ie. skinwalker?)

Anyway.

Nah I don't really think it proves telepathy, although it may be considered evidence someone can just falsify it by saying that the reason you feel this tension is because unconsciously you detect the anger in the room...

This is very interesting.

Yeah, the truth is always stranger than fiction....there's nothing more fascinating than the actual truth, the way reality really is....I also found out the many-worlds interpretation (which says there are infinite realities) agrees with what I said as does the many-minds interpretation (an extension of the MWI, which says we exist in our own personal reality)....

Well. We describe articulately what we have been...
The only other option I see is getting QQ to go to a telepathy examination test, and prove it to the world. The only other flawless proof of telepathy that actually exists,... is someone else, or me: we can get a tester to see me, if we want more than life itself to prove telepathy. However we would have to come to an agreement saying they will follow the conditions I ask. They will preform it at my house,

etc

Well if you really have accurate telepathic abilities then we can setup a test....someone could write down a list of 10 random numbers each from 1-1000 and then the person with telepathic abilities reads them....if they can do this over and over again then it proves they have telepathic abilities...

 

[kwhilborn]

Well if you really have accurate telepathic abilities then we can setup a test....someone could write down a list of 10 random numbers each from 1-1000 and then the person with telepathic abilities reads them....if they can do this over and over again then it proves they have telepathic abilities...

Someone would need to be very well trained to be able to guess 10 numbers out of 1000 (if such a person did exist). This is a problem towards studying this. Even in 50/50 tests errors are common, and you must look at the probabilities of the repeated outcome randomly versus the telepathic version.

Even with repeated successes it is still a leap of faith for skeptics to agree with the results. How many coincidences equals proof? I am afraid Telepathy may have to be guffawed until we have the abilities to measure what is taking place.

This is why I advocate proving it to yourself. Repeating a short message for one hour to a sleeping friend seems to work much similar to a phone call. It does not seem to work on strangers or for pay raises, but if someone is open to what you are sending they will recieve the thought.

Repeated successes in this manner are hard to ignore when you are the "Telepath", and those who doubt at present can lay those doubts aside after enough successful repeats.

 

[Tnerb]

Nah I don't really think it proves telepathy, although it may be considered evidence someone can just falsify it by saying that the reason you feel this tension is because unconsciously you detect the anger in the room...

True.

Yeah, the truth is always stranger than fiction....there's nothing more fascinating than the actual truth, the way reality really is....I also found out the many-worlds interpretation (which says there are infinite realities) agrees with what I said as does the many-minds interpretation (an extension of the MWI, which says we exist in our own personal reality)....

kwhilborn is calling my fantasy an "esotric perspective" or something. I actually am quite helpless and very concerned with truth. I appoligise if i am quite critical; you may note that, this you are saying here, is of greater interest than most of your past words....

As you can tell, the actual truth is of great concern to me, as well..

Well if you really have accurate telepathic abilities then we can setup a test....someone could write down a list of 10 random numbers each from 1-1000 and then the person with telepathic abilities reads them....if they can do this over and over again then it proves they have telepathic abilities...

Honestly. This sounds weird to me. Although I admit to having telepathic abilities I think the word telepathy is very weird. I prefer psychic realm. I simply am trying to prove that the experiences I have are not false. And, that they are infact actual telepathy....

Psychic realm.

As the first post of this thread, ozzie is stating many interesting questions.

I can control people, change an atmosphere, ... isn't telepathy thought transmitted from one mind to another?


*** confused ***

 

[Quantum Quack]

Hi Brent, Vitalone and Kwilborn and others.
Just been reading the thread and see we are still vexing over the same issues that have vexated man-kind for thousands of years...little wonder in that hey?
I have some ideas about all this that maybe go some of the way in explaining why proof of psychic abilities especially telepathy is currently unavailable for scientific investigation.

Ozzie [my brother in-law] and I have spent many years researching this particular issue and our zero point theory on the nature of psychic interconnectivity [ The physics of God ] is almost completed and ready to be published.

Briefly though what we have found is as follows:

The pheno we are experiencing as individuals is or more importantly should be normally subliminal or instinctively subconscious. That is to say that these psychic activities are normally what makes the consciousness of a person function and normally should not be a part of consciousness but that which under pins the consciousness of the person.

In persons who have experienced instinctive, reflexive and reactive functions of our MINDS autonomic systems they consider them to be abilities to be learned and attempt to do so. It is the nature of consciousness to control what it is aware of. [ certainly there is a strong tendancy for one to do so]

However if one attempts to control that which should be inherantly reflexive one finds that they are compelled to "deliberately" apply that ability as a way of compensating for the loss of instinctive reflexes and reactivity.

In other words the deliberate "will" is now compelled to act instinctively thus the sense of compulsion and the feeling that one is obsessed with futily acting out something that seems to go no where or lead to any development of psy ability.

But of course all the person is actually doing is applying conscious and deliberate effort to something that would other wise be automatically applied at a deep subconscious level. In some people this condition of instinctive/ deliberate behaviour is sever enough to put them in a very precarious mental state due to mental fatigue and frustration leading to hospitalisation and diagnosis such as paranoid schizphrenia etc.

Of course because we are talkig about normal reflexive behaviours that are now aberrant and considerably slower [ due to "micro management" problems]interrelationships with people suffer accordingly, also the self consciousness of the act tend to render the operant incapable of escaping the uncomfortable nature of his or her own self awareness.

So what happens is that a person who has realised the major truth of our reflexive natures wishes to tell the world about it and as you would expect the "instinctive" world is not really wanting to know as they also do not want to be caught up in the trap of compelled instinctive/ deliberate behaviour [ as one counter issue on it own as there are many other reasons for denial]

So proof is only available if it is derived reflexively and not with premeditation which requires the ability to over ride our own instinctive and reflexive behaviour. As soon as one applies delberate premediated "will" one will fail either totally or achieve inconclusive results at best.

It is a global or universal social problem and not isolated just to the individual. To succeed one has to alter reflexive behaviours of not only the target and himself but all other entities as well. A very big task indeed yes?

Evidence of psychic pheno can be shown every where one exists. It is most evident in the trauma that is presented in psychiatric institutions and in the denial shown by society generally.

Of course as Brent says he is capable of manipulating, cohersion, telepathy and ambient mood changes etc and so are we all. It happens all the time, how ever not normally as per conscious premeditated will but usually at a deep instinctive and subconscious level.
The main reason for example why the world is never at peace is simply because of this fact for as people we simply do not know who much we stuff about with other peoples lives and how that effects their behaviour towards us in turn. Interelaionships suffer accordingly.

So a person who has been diagnosed with acute paranoid schizophrenia has normally terrible relationships with those around him. The ability to instinctively communicate has been lost and because he is on manual mode instead of automatic mode he is incapable of deliberately responding in away that is approrpiate as his reactions are simply too slow. normal comunications happen extremely fast [ speed of light would be an example of rate]

So what is the solution?
How does one restore the automatic function or the autonomic mind?
How does one recover from the psychic trauma that such a life of pseudo psychic ability and the intense fatigue generates?

edit: As one can see in most posts concerning this issue intense ambition plays a big part. Even when a person is suffering intense societal and phsycial dysfunction and is desparately looking for solutions they are caught up in the ambition to master their ability so much so that they will be prepared to destroy them selves and their relationships to achieve that end. [ re: God Complex - inherant human nature]

Big questions hey?

 

[VitalOne]

Honestly. This sounds weird to me. Although I admit to having telepathic abilities I think the word telepathy is very weird. I prefer psychic realm. I simply am trying to prove that the experiences I have are not false. And, that they are infact actual telepathy....

Psychic realm.

As the first post of this thread, ozzie is stating many interesting questions.

I can control people, change an atmosphere, ... isn't telepathy thought transmitted from one mind to another?

*** confused ***

I understand the abilities you talking about and occaissionally exercise them also....but these things are difficult to measure....how can you measure if you're really controlling someone, changing the atmosphere, etc.....when I exercise these abilities like seeing images in people's minds, hearing things at a distance, hearing others thoughts, controlling others, etc....it usually happens kind of spontaneously....

However there is this test, can you tell someone what they had for breakfast?

 

[Sarkus]

I have read this thread - and personally I think you're all talking a load of rubbish with regard to Telepathy.

What you are mostly referring to seems to be merely interpretation of what your senses are picking up.
Telepathy is actually a means of transmitting thought WITHOUT the use of our classical senses.

i.e. to assert that it is telepathy and not merely subconsciously picking up on feelings through what your ears, eyes, nose etc are telling you, you need to demonstrate it in a controlled environment where ALL pertinent senses are isolated and made useless.

Otherwise it is nothing but a trainable "parlour trick".

e.g. Derren Brown - you can pick any number you want from 1 to 1,000,000 and as long as he can watch you visualising that number in your head he will have a damn good chance at guessing it - because he knows how to read the minute signs that we give off - our facial expressions as we think of certain letters, for example.
He is also able to insert subliminal messages in a conversation and effectively manipulate people.
Psychic? Telepathy? No. Merely picking things up, WITH ONES SENSES, and correctly interpreting them.

Telepathy: is a term used to describe the transfer of information on thoughts or feelings between individuals by means other than the five classical senses (Wikipedia.org)

Telepathy: communication between minds by some means other than sensory perception (dictionary.com).

You need to provide some rather compelling evidence that what you are experiencing is outside of sensory perception.

 

[grover]

Let me get this straight, you're claiming that every number gives off a little sign to the extent that someone can learn to rea these numbers between 1 and 1 million? I'd have to say between that and telepathy occam's razor would go with telepathy.

 

[Sarkus]

No - I'm saying that he would get you to start saying each digit in turn over and over in your head - and he would get them right.

So he would only need to know 0 to 9.

Try this link...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZFx4wHeCBFc
Similar to what this thread is about.

 

[VitalOne]

I have read this thread - and personally I think you're all talking a load of rubbish with regard to Telepathy.

What you are mostly referring to seems to be merely interpretation of what your senses are picking up.
Telepathy is actually a means of transmitting thought WITHOUT the use of our classical senses.

i.e. to assert that it is telepathy and not merely subconsciously picking up on feelings through what your ears, eyes, nose etc are telling you, you need to demonstrate it in a controlled environment where ALL pertinent senses are isolated and made useless.

Otherwise it is nothing but a trainable "parlour trick".

e.g. Derren Brown - you can pick any number you want from 1 to 1,000,000 and as long as he can watch you visualising that number in your head he will have a damn good chance at guessing it - because he knows how to read the minute signs that we give off - our facial expressions as we think of certain letters, for example.
He is also able to insert subliminal messages in a conversation and effectively manipulate people.
Psychic? Telepathy? No. Merely picking things up, WITH ONES SENSES, and correctly interpreting them.

Telepathy: is a term used to describe the transfer of information on thoughts or feelings between individuals by means other than the five classical senses (Wikipedia.org)

Telepathy: communication between minds by some means other than sensory perception (dictionary.com).

You need to provide some rather compelling evidence that what you are experiencing is outside of sensory perception.

Ok Sarkus, so what would demonstrate that telepathy is occuring outside of sensory perception? The two people not being in the same rooms? Like if I read your thoughts over the internet while talking to you or something like that?

Since you're a great skeptic Sarkus, tell us what would be undeniable concrete empirical evidence of telepathy?

 

[Tnerb]

Interesting post sarkus, I haven't disagreed with you at all. I had no idea that that is the actual defination of telepathy though, i've always wanted to know exactly what it is!

I have a few good ideas of what I could say as telepathy that I may be capable of doing. To say the least it is good you're finally saying to the world that such a field as talked about in psychology actually exists- people need to know these things, ya know?

Anyway, i'll stop mumbling 4 right now!

 

[Sarkus]

Ok Sarkus, so what would demonstrate that telepathy is occuring outside of sensory perception? The two people not being in the same rooms? Like if I read your thoughts over the internet while talking to you or something like that?

Since you're a great skeptic Sarkus, tell us what would be undeniable concrete empirical evidence of telepathy?

If someone, under controlled lab conditions, could pick a name from a telephone directory in a foregin country, and then persuade that person to pick up a phone from that country and phone in to the lab. THAT would be good evidence.
It would indicate the ability to relay information to a complete stranger with zero chance of sensory means of doing so.

You need to isolate ALL the "telepath"'s senses from the subject.
Otherwise you're just looking at parlour tricks - a la Derren Brown.
He can clearly demonstrate "telepathy", mind-reading and many other things - but it is all just "psychological illusion".

One "illusion" he did was to put himself in one old prison cell and his "subject" in another - both with a chair and a blackboard.
There was no way in which he could see the other person - but they talked to each other (Derren Brown giving the other guy instructions such as "sit down" - "draw a shape on the board" etc).
However, DB was able to mimic precisely the "subjects" actions - so far as to cross his arms when the subject did, scratch his ear when the subject did - and then managed to draw exactly the same picture on the board - all without any visual clues whatsoever.
Telepathy? ESP?

No.

He just gave the subject subliminal instructions - and knew well enough how the body reacts to sounds etc that he could, with a reasonably high probability, tell what the guy was going to do.

Nothing magical or mystical - just very clever stuff.

 

[grover]

You need to isolate ALL the "telepath"'s senses from the subject.
Otherwise you're just looking at parlour tricks - a la Derren Brown.
He can clearly demonstrate "telepathy", mind-reading and many other things - but it is all just "psychological illusion".

One "illusion" he did was to put himself in one old prison cell and his "subject" in another - both with a chair and a blackboard.
There was no way in which he could see the other person - but they talked to each other (Derren Brown giving the other guy instructions such as "sit down" - "draw a shape on the board" etc).
However, DB was able to mimic precisely the "subjects" actions - so far as to cross his arms when the subject did, scratch his ear when the subject did - and then managed to draw exactly the same picture on the board - all without any visual clues whatsoever.
Telepathy? ESP?

No.

He just gave the subject subliminal instructions - and knew well enough how the body reacts to sounds etc that he could, with a reasonably high probability, tell what the guy was going to do.

Nothing magical or mystical - just very clever stuff.

You seem to take those videos at face value, in other words we are seeing what actually occured. So you believe if that man just touched your face and said toothache your face would actually start aching?

 

[Sarkus]

Face-value? Hmmm - no - as he openly admits it is just psychological trickery.

I'm fairly happy that he chooses his subjects with care - as I know for a fact that some people are more open to subliminal suggestion / hypnotism etc than others.
He also chooses people he knows he can "read", and work with, more easily.

Plus of course we generally don't see the times he fails.

But my point is that our senses can be deceived so easily - that we often mistake things for the "weird and wonderful" when there is a far more mundane explanation.