That was real specific.
Bravo.
You really have your ducks in a row on this one.
Now. Since that's all you have.
Go away.
Bravo.
You really have your ducks in a row on this one.
Now. Since that's all you have.
Go away.
AIDS: What IS the CELL that Causes this?
- Thread starter PHPlatonica
- Start date
I want the specifics from science though.. I mean it's not the scientists lying to us. I beleive this with every thing I am. scientists will say "THEORY" k.. The don't say absolute. But there is nothing else that can campare to how science works yet. So, The people who are being the boobs, are like Nexus said the ones with the purse strings. So you may be right meta you are being lied to to an extent, but the people who you think are lying to you, aren't the same people who is doing the "lying"
God I hate that word.. LOL...
God I hate that word.. LOL...
HOLY FREE HOLY'S!Oh wow. There is more information then My Brain can suck in.
Thank you so much for providing it, and clearing it up.
And If Hasslberger Wasn't selling anything, it would make me feel more comfortable in legitimate research. But I ran into Papers about Hepatitis C and the Bird Flu all being a big lie... and then More pushing of his product. For me, that ussualy when I question the information. How much is "greed" talking then the facts. It Can get very garbled. The Way Humans handle and think of "MONEY" is pretty evil. Which LOL, must be why people say that Money is the foundation for evil. Makes sense to me.
See, with science. TRUE scientists of every field. Will do it for Expansion of knowledge. Not for another buck so they can lax around and intoxicate themselves and do nothing.
That is why I believe in science so much. It's Progression. To me. Unfortunately there is not much room for Emotions and Feelings so it is really hard to put those urges aside and use all your senses to focus on what is being presented. Any how... For ME it's like that.
Of course theres the whole Psychosis issue too. But I don't even know HOW to understand that yet.
You may be right there Meta.MetaKron said:
It IS a personal, scary thing. It touches every one on a personal level because we don't know how to stop it, but we know how to prevent it. Even mentioning it in the public eye makes people move away from you like your a leper. It's a personal anxiety and threat.
Not to mention the moral implications there. I mean, the people who seem more often then not, to get this are people with "not so normal" sexual behaviors and drug abusers. those two things we classify as moral wrong Already because those two behaviors are a choice! Now that choice by other people is caring a threat to the general population as a whole. Our life and existence as a species. So there is an anger behind HIV and AIDS in people. If they have it, they must be doing these "bad choices" to have gotten it, there for they are "bad". Then the people like Doctors and Nurses etc who contract this through different means are still just as much as a threat to the people who contracted it with Questionable behavior. See? Even though they contracted it innocently. Or worse, because they were helping some one else. The way society has accepted this epidemic is heart breaking. But no one knows What else to do. Honestly, should every one who is positive be placed on an island some where to live out their days? That IS a solution.
But we are creatures with this magic of feeling and Loving and hating. That alone stops us from doing something like that. So the people, the Hercules of the world, and their studies and science IS using that "love" to help further and better understand this and other potentialy harmfull things.
If that weren't so, then the diseased would be ringed up and shot.
Well, that is my opinion. It is scary. But my own fears have not gotten me any were. And those fears wont get society any where either.
AIDS supporters are abusive to people. The next step is to understand that people who are abusive do not prove that they are right by being abusive. When the supporters of a notion are pretty well universally abusive, they are very very likely to be wrong, very very unlikely to be right. If we are thinking clearly, these people bury their case worse the more they talk. They also use pretty bad science to try to prove their case.
"Morality" winds up manufacturing its own evidence. A lot of this is by circular reasoning. One of my favorites is the fact that doctors had trouble diagnosing a given type of infection as syphilis. Since syphilis is sexually transmitted, the doctor might ask if the patient has had sex with a loose woman lately, and if the answer is yes, as it often is, then it's syphilis. That's the terribly accurate test for syphilis that they had for a long time. It was circular reasoning. AIDS is even more insane that way, and more convoluted. Someone in this system got the green light to say "I am right until you prove me wrong" without ever having to prove their case in the first place. Now the route of attack against this fallacy is dictated by the convoluted case that they have put forth and the unscientific logic that a person has to wade through. It is impenetrable because it is a thicket maze, not because it is right. Of course they are quite ready to boil it down for you into a few simple statements, but when you question those statements they stick it to you, as sharp and as hard as they can. A lot of them would be unable to be useful in an environment in which they had to do real intellectual or physical work.
"Morality" winds up manufacturing its own evidence. A lot of this is by circular reasoning. One of my favorites is the fact that doctors had trouble diagnosing a given type of infection as syphilis. Since syphilis is sexually transmitted, the doctor might ask if the patient has had sex with a loose woman lately, and if the answer is yes, as it often is, then it's syphilis. That's the terribly accurate test for syphilis that they had for a long time. It was circular reasoning. AIDS is even more insane that way, and more convoluted. Someone in this system got the green light to say "I am right until you prove me wrong" without ever having to prove their case in the first place. Now the route of attack against this fallacy is dictated by the convoluted case that they have put forth and the unscientific logic that a person has to wade through. It is impenetrable because it is a thicket maze, not because it is right. Of course they are quite ready to boil it down for you into a few simple statements, but when you question those statements they stick it to you, as sharp and as hard as they can. A lot of them would be unable to be useful in an environment in which they had to do real intellectual or physical work.
Oh. Come now.
Look to thyself, O Decrier of the Iniquity of Ohers.
Let's go back in time a moment, shall we?
Just the briefest of moments.
I set the wayback machine to.... yesterday. And what do we see? Why... is it... could it be... Yes. Yes, it is.
It's Metakron. Bopping about the forum. Oh so carefree. Look at him skipping merrily along. Tra-la-la Tra-la-la.
Ah. He's so cute and innocent, isn't he?
Ah. But wait. What's this? What's he doing? He's peeking into a thread asking about facts about AIDS. Oh. My. Look at that look on his face. Look at how angry he's become. Look at him look around furtively to make sure those local bullies of which he is so afraid aren't around. Nope. They're not here. Not in this wondrous internet where he's safe.
What's he doing?
He's typing something.
Let's peer closer, children. Let's see what he has to say...
Why. That almost sounds... abusive... Gasp... Why... it is... it is abusive...
My my. Who would have ever thought that our dear, sweet Metakron would ever stoop to such tactics.
Well. Let's look at the circumstances. Hercules had just said some pretty nasty words to Platonica. Why. She even said they made her cry. Maybe he was just reacting to that... But. No. That can't be. After all, he later says, "I didn't actually catch that when Hercules said it. Pathetic, isn't it? He has to call someone a conspiracy dumbass piece of shit because he doesn't understand the science."
So. He apparently didn't read what Hercules had said and was, instead, just throwing out spiteful words to all comers. To all the idiots who believe differently than him.
My.
Oh my.
And let's peer ahead to the next thing that our lovable hero says. Surely it'll be something which will redeem the harshness of his first post?
Oh. My. That's even worse.
Again, it's coached in ambiguity, but the intent is quite clear.
He's calling people who actually believe in AIDS... liars.
And he doesn't even provide any evidence as to why. He just throws out the accusation.
My.
Such abuse hurled by our hero.
Come, come. He will surely redeem himself with his next statements?
Surely?
Oh NO!
First he endorses the very activity which he states so often has damaged him and made him the eternal 'victim'. And then he goes on to insult Hercules' understanding of science itself.
My.
And where's his evidence? Where's his supporting statements?
I see none as of yet.
Just... abuse.
Please, Metakron. Your next statement. It will surely redeem you. If there is a GOD then your next statement will surely redeem you in our eyes!!
Aaargh!!
"Pathetic."
Insinutions of incomprehension of the topic with nothing to back up his assertions!
NO!!!!
Is there a GOD!@!?
Apparently.
No.
There is no god.
Metakron is an abusive person. But, I suppose he redeems himself by only being abusive in this medium of words. Why. He'd never throw his rage at a living being out there. So he says.
And we all know that his word is as good as law.
Yeah. You know all about that. Don't you?
Now. Instead of anecdotes about syphillis.
How about discussing the facts?
Or would you rather continue with your abuse?
Look to thyself, O Decrier of the Iniquity of Ohers.
Let's go back in time a moment, shall we?
Just the briefest of moments.
I set the wayback machine to.... yesterday. And what do we see? Why... is it... could it be... Yes. Yes, it is.
It's Metakron. Bopping about the forum. Oh so carefree. Look at him skipping merrily along. Tra-la-la Tra-la-la.
Ah. He's so cute and innocent, isn't he?
Ah. But wait. What's this? What's he doing? He's peeking into a thread asking about facts about AIDS. Oh. My. Look at that look on his face. Look at how angry he's become. Look at him look around furtively to make sure those local bullies of which he is so afraid aren't around. Nope. They're not here. Not in this wondrous internet where he's safe.
What's he doing?
He's typing something.
Let's peer closer, children. Let's see what he has to say...
Why. That almost sounds... abusive... Gasp... Why... it is... it is abusive...
My my. Who would have ever thought that our dear, sweet Metakron would ever stoop to such tactics.
Well. Let's look at the circumstances. Hercules had just said some pretty nasty words to Platonica. Why. She even said they made her cry. Maybe he was just reacting to that... But. No. That can't be. After all, he later says, "I didn't actually catch that when Hercules said it. Pathetic, isn't it? He has to call someone a conspiracy dumbass piece of shit because he doesn't understand the science."
So. He apparently didn't read what Hercules had said and was, instead, just throwing out spiteful words to all comers. To all the idiots who believe differently than him.
My.
Oh my.
And let's peer ahead to the next thing that our lovable hero says. Surely it'll be something which will redeem the harshness of his first post?
Oh. My. That's even worse.
Again, it's coached in ambiguity, but the intent is quite clear.
He's calling people who actually believe in AIDS... liars.
And he doesn't even provide any evidence as to why. He just throws out the accusation.
My.
Such abuse hurled by our hero.
Come, come. He will surely redeem himself with his next statements?
Surely?
Oh NO!
First he endorses the very activity which he states so often has damaged him and made him the eternal 'victim'. And then he goes on to insult Hercules' understanding of science itself.
My.
And where's his evidence? Where's his supporting statements?
I see none as of yet.
Just... abuse.
Please, Metakron. Your next statement. It will surely redeem you. If there is a GOD then your next statement will surely redeem you in our eyes!!
Aaargh!!
"Pathetic."
Insinutions of incomprehension of the topic with nothing to back up his assertions!
NO!!!!
Is there a GOD!@!?
Apparently.
No.
There is no god.
Metakron is an abusive person. But, I suppose he redeems himself by only being abusive in this medium of words. Why. He'd never throw his rage at a living being out there. So he says.
And we all know that his word is as good as law.
Yeah. You know all about that. Don't you?
Now. Instead of anecdotes about syphillis.
How about discussing the facts?
Or would you rather continue with your abuse?
Meta, PEOPLE are abusive to people in any situation. Disagreemants can be ugly. But there are people dying of an illness. a lot of them. Go to ANY hospice Meta. Tell me that they aren't dying. prove to me that it is the medication that is what is killing the kids in Africa. see? People lying or not, people are STILL very well Dying... Science found HIV. The found a reason as to WHY this might be happening. There is nothing in it for any one but knowledge... the world isn't out to get you.
in any situation. Disagreemants can be ugly. But there are people dying of an illness. a lot of them. Go to ANY hospice Meta. Tell me that they aren't dying. prove to me that it is the medication that is what is killing the kids in Africa. see? People lying or not, people are STILL very well Dying... Science found HIV. The found a reason as to WHY this might be happening. There is nothing in it for any one but knowledge... the world isn't out to get you.Psst.
That's where scientific research comes in.
Oh. But. That's right.
According to you, scientists are liars and abusers.
Hypocrite.
More abuse.
Non-specific.
Abuse.
You are completely unable to discuss the topic.
Your only contribution is that it's all lies.
Where then, do you get your information from?
Tell me.
If not science, then where?
What's so hard to understand? If you have problems understanding. Ask.
How would you know?
Have you asked about any of those 'statements'? I've seen nothing of the sort. All I've seen from you is blanket accusations and abusive behavior.
Yeah. Abusive behavior just like that.
You never question any 'statements'. Instead you spend all your energy hurling venom and accusations.
You insult people's intelligence.
You insult their honesty.
You insult their motivations.
You insult everything about them.
But you never, not once, question any of the statements.
PHPlatonica said:Meta, PEOPLE are abusive to people
According to just about any source you care to ask, before AIDS was invented 2 million people a year in Africa were dying of tuberculosis and malaria. There is also dysentery and cholera. None of these require any medication to cause death. The symptoms in Africa are different from the symptoms in America, and when you mentioned this, that's when Invert started calling you dirty names.
The simple fact is that in America it's medication, and in Africa it's the usual endemic diseases. Verbal abuse by potty-mouth will not change this, although it might compel a lot of people to pretend to believe it.
1. You lie.
I never called Platonica dirty names. What planet are you on?
2. This was addressed in my post.
People still die of tb. Malaria. Cholera.
It's not that these have been taken under the wing of AIDS. It's the fact that AIDS makes people more susceptible to these illnesses.
(So glad you finally addressed a point. Even if it is one that's already been addressed.)
Yes. It's different in Africa than in America.
Why?
Because there are different diseases in the different areas.
Not a whole lot of malaria or cholera making its way around the US. Is there?
However. It's easier to diagnose by illness in America because the illnesses that are killing aids victims are so rare outside of aids.
That's the numbers.
Those illnesses that are the killers in the US are so rare as to be practically non-existent outside of aids.
The illnesses that are the killers in Africa are killing people that would survive if it weren't for AIDS.
The simple fact of the matter is that I've already quoted studies that show that the medication does not bring about AIDS. These were control studies. Some being given medication. Some being given placebos.
Your defense? Are they simply lies?
Muaha!
Potty-mouth.
I love it when idiots such as yourself resort to such lame defenses. Next you'll be jumping on grammar patrol. But how could you do that and retain any plausibility with Duendy?
Hmm.
A dilemma, eh?
No. "Verbal abuse" will not change it. Nor will you verbal abuse do so either.
That's what the scientific research is all about.
But.
That's nothing but lies.
Right?
That's your stance?
Science is lies?
Even this source?
Last edited:
I adopted Nexus as my mentor Meta. eh. He didn't call me any dirty names.
But I give him full permission too if I mess up. I want to LEARN.
It seem silly to fight against a written science, if you don't know all the science behind why and where these ideas and situations came from.
In the case of HIV, people were mysteriously dying and the similarities where incredible. When they needed help, science looked into it. WHERE it came from, the virus, is any ones guess. But the fact that it IS killing is why science is here.
Now, I am not going to say that there isn't as much as possible being done. That IS about money resources. The conspiracy you hear about may lay in that. But the basic fundamental science in the epidemic is not a hoax. It's not, NOT real.
The idea is to help people. Those who do not want the help are welcome to curl up and die on their own, alone. But those who do want help, are asking for it. There is no conspiracy in that. In being sick. The wrong entity is being blamed because this is incurable so far. Nothing more.
As for pharmaceutical companies. I have my own opinion on that. I do not like the advertising they do, and the way they buy Dr.s dinners and such to get their medications prescribed. Maybe there is something in that. But please, don't blame the people who are trying to help. Knowledge is the key here. there is a lot of it out there. It may take a bit of time, but I know that when you aren't yelling and fighting with people, they will be more likely to help.
Well, so that is what I am thinking. I don't want any one wrongly accused of any thing. No bantering and name calling. Infact I think that it is real mature and sweet that Hercules apologized. After he explained that, I agreed with him. I DID sound like a lot of the people out there who refuse to believe in it. So I can understand where that came from. Communication was all we needed. So, it's ok. I am only asking questions for information on a situation and nothing more. I am not out to save or influence the world. Or believe or disbelieve any one. I just want to know what has already been studied and learned.
Any how Meta, remember when I jumped on your butt way back when? And then you jumped on mine. Then you said you were sorry. I felt terrible and I was sorry too. and since, even though we don't always agree with each other, we have been able to communicate and see each other as people. That takes a strong person. I feel it applys here in ways.
eh. He didn't call me any dirty names. But I give him full permission too if I mess up. I want to LEARN.
It seem silly to fight against a written science, if you don't know all the science behind why and where these ideas and situations came from.
In the case of HIV, people were mysteriously dying and the similarities where incredible. When they needed help, science looked into it. WHERE it came from, the virus, is any ones guess. But the fact that it IS killing is why science is here.
Now, I am not going to say that there isn't as much as possible being done. That IS about money resources. The conspiracy you hear about may lay in that. But the basic fundamental science in the epidemic is not a hoax. It's not, NOT real.
The idea is to help people. Those who do not want the help are welcome to curl up and die on their own, alone. But those who do want help, are asking for it. There is no conspiracy in that. In being sick. The wrong entity is being blamed because this is incurable so far. Nothing more.
As for pharmaceutical companies. I have my own opinion on that. I do not like the advertising they do, and the way they buy Dr.s dinners and such to get their medications prescribed. Maybe there is something in that. But please, don't blame the people who are trying to help. Knowledge is the key here. there is a lot of it out there. It may take a bit of time, but I know that when you aren't yelling and fighting with people, they will be more likely to help.
Well, so that is what I am thinking. I don't want any one wrongly accused of any thing. No bantering and name calling. Infact I think that it is real mature and sweet that Hercules apologized. After he explained that, I agreed with him. I DID sound like a lot of the people out there who refuse to believe in it. So I can understand where that came from. Communication was all we needed. So, it's ok. I am only asking questions for information on a situation and nothing more. I am not out to save or influence the world. Or believe or disbelieve any one. I just want to know what has already been studied and learned.
Any how Meta, remember when I jumped on your butt way back when? And then you jumped on mine. Then you said you were sorry. I felt terrible and I was sorry too. and since, even though we don't always agree with each other, we have been able to communicate and see each other as people.
That takes a strong person. I feel it applys here in ways.Good thing Im masochistic!MetaKron said:
come on, I will be ok.
The idea Meta, is to share idea's. No one is beating me down to absolutely believe their way Or I will be flogged to death. No one is out to physically harm me if I don't see their way completely. It's more like, I asked because I REALLY want to know what is known.
But, really, no one is forcing any one against their will. It's alright. But I think it's nice of you to be concerned, and thank you
But, really, no one is forcing any one against their will. It's alright. But I think it's nice of you to be concerned, and thank you