Age differences.

[Closet Philosopher]

When I was going to high school, Many senior 5th year students (mostly guys) would date Grade 9 girls.

We would teasr them in class and call them "cradle robbers" ans "cherry poppers". Since some of the guys were 18 or 19 and the girls were 14, it can technically be illegal for them to have sex. The biggest one was our school president who was going out with a 14-year old while he was 18. Many of her friends said that she was just going out with him because he was popular.

Do you think that it's ok for 18 and 19 year old guys to have sex with 14 year old girls who want to be popular? Do you think that the girls are old enough to make a decision like that?

My old high school buddies and I had a heated discussion about it.

I will only reveal my opinion later so that I don't sway any posts.

 

[robtex]

When I was going to high school, Many senior 5th year students (mostly guys) would date Grade 9 girls.

Do you think that it's ok for 18 and 19 year old guys to have sex with 14 year old girls who want to be popular?

I singled out those two statements to state an opinion. My opinion is most if not all boys in that age range put a tremendous amount of pressure on woman they interact with on a romantic level for sex.

That is awful tough on a 14 year old kid to have a much older, stronger kid pressuring them for sex. You stated the idea that dating implies sexual relations when it does not.

It is instead incorperated into the relationship. The question is by whom (one or both) and for what motives. Two things I want to point out on this since it is impossible to know the answer without knowing the couple or couples in question (as this is a hypothical based on reality).

One: There is a signifigant percentage of woman who will later wish they had not had sex at age 14. (as opposed to an insifigant # of men). Knowing that a reasonable percentage will be injured on the back end why would society want to condone that behavior.

Two: One of reason older boys (not the only reason but definetly one of them) choose younger woman is the control they can assert over them and in particular the control that can lead to sexual intercourse.

I read an autobiography once by an admitted serial rapist named Nathiel Mcall (sp?)who served time for armed robbery of a McDonalds. The book is titled, "Makes me wanna holla", and in it very vividly, he describes in two instances where he and the boys from "the hood" coehersed woman into "consentual" sex with a group of boys going one at a time.

The interesting things I learned from his experience (that he was so very brave to articulate in print), was that one, the culture he was in considered this behavior permissable --thus santioning it, and two at the age of 15 when he did much of this he saw it as something he wanted to do and than at age 40ish when he wrote the book looked back on it with regret. Deep regret.

Your schoolmates are in a similar boat in that they are in an enviroment that turns a blind eye reguarly on "dating younger girls for sex" as minors thus condoning and why they may see it cool today if many of them do (and most probably will) mature with a conscious, they will likely sincerely regret one day pressuring a younger girl into sex.

 

[Tiassa]

Do you think that it's ok for 18 and 19 year old guys to have sex with 14 year old girls who want to be popular? Do you think that the girls are old enough to make a decision like that?

No. If a girl is having sex to be popular, there's your answer right there.

 

[The Singularity]

Do you think that it's ok for 18 and 19 year old guys to have sex with 14 year old girls who want to be popular? Do you think that the girls are old enough to make a decision like that?

No ... in both cases. The 18/19 yr old guys aren't doing it to help the 14 yr old girls get popular ... they're doing it for themselves. They have no intention to help a girl reach popularity status ... they do it because they want to satisfy themselves with someone they know is fresh and untouched. It's sick to think of it ... yes ... but I've heard too many instances where such a thing happened.

Also ... girls aren't old enough to make such a decision because they aren't old enough to understand the long term implications of such an action. They think they're going to become popular but they're too naive to understand that having sex at such a young age will most likely lead to worst things than unpopularity ... considering that safe sex isn't getting throught the heads of most teenagers.

 

[§outh§tar]

I think you guys may be missing the reverse issue:

18/19 year old girls go out with guys much younger than them. I'm pretty sure the guys don't think "it's sick to think of it" or care that they are being taken advantage of, as some here have slanderously reported.

Most opinions of why older guys shouldn't go out with younger girls conflict with why older girls shouldn't go out with younger guys.

I say older girls can go out with younger boys because guys know what they are in for and can handle themselves better. This is a general saying however (obviously) so don't crucify me.

 

[whitewolf]

Girls prefer older guys throughout their high school time. 16 yr old girls date 20 yr old guys. Why do you question 14 vs 18 difference? I have a friend who got engaged to a guy 10 yrs older than her. Why is it that you think that a 14 yr old girl does not want to have sex for mere pleasure? What if she does? A girl of 14 knows perfectly well what an 18 yr old guy wants.

Um, 12th graders in my school were 17, not 18-19.

I, personally, date only people of the same age as me or one year older at most. I say, people seek younger partners because they can't satisfy partners of their own age for some reason.

 

[Fraggle Rocker]

When I was going to high school, Many senior 5th year students (mostly guys) would date Grade 9 girls. Do you think that it's ok for 18 and 19 year old guys to have sex with 14 year old girls who want to be popular? Do you think that the girls are old enough to make a decision like that?

This must be a burning question in high school. It came up a few months ago.

Women mature earlier than men. Fourteen-year-old girls tend to find fourteen-year-old boys to be as fascinating as cub scouts. Eighteen-year-old boys tend to find eighteen-year-old girls to be passionately interested in stuff that they don't even understand, it'd be like dating their mothers.

It's always been like this. In medieval times in many cultures, girls started having sex as soon as they hit puberty, and they preferred to give their favors to guys who were several years older, or even grown men. By the 1950s when I was in high school the pendulum had swung completely in the other direction. Very few high school kids had sex, despite the swaggering way we talked about it. Some senior girls were doing it with college boys, but except for the most popular jocks, most of the high school boys just had to wait.

The problem with what you're describing is that maturity is many-faceted, and a 13-year-old girl just isn't a match in emotions or judgment for an 18-year-old boy even if they can have fabulous sex. Men lead women on and then dump 'em. For a girl to learn that at 17 is one thing. To have it happen at 13 is traumatic. This is probably where many of the emotional problems come from that some of the younger female members of this forum keep posting. They feel betrayed, they feel like life won't ever give them what they want, like sex is just something to bargain with, not to take seriously.

As the elder here, I have to say that I see some wisdom in the doctrine of statutory rape. I'm not going to second-guess the parents of an 18-year-old boy and a girl who's only one year underage, and if a 14-year-old is out in the hayloft doing it with a 13-year-old I can't help smiling at the thought of two innocents discovering things together. But for an 18-year-old to be doing it to (that's the preposition that comes to mind, not "with") a 13-year-old... I just don't think that's right. For all the sophistication that today's eighth-graders may have that we lacked, this is still a young adult taking advantage of a child. I don't think it's right. Somebody is being screwed out of a normal growing-up experience.

All of us who are adults or nearly so have an obligation to take care of the people who are still children. You're not doing that if you're ballin' them.

 

[robtex]

The problem with what you're describing is that maturity is many-faceted, and a 13-year-old girl just isn't a match in emotions or judgment for an 18-year-old boy even if they can have fabulous sex. Men lead women on and then dump 'em. For a girl to learn that at 17 is one thing. To have it happen at 13 is traumatic. This is probably where many of the emotional problems come from that some of the younger female members of this forum keep posting. They feel betrayed, they feel like life won't ever give them what they want, like sex is just something to bargain with, not to take seriously.

excellent point.

 

[cyberia]

The reverse issue isn't any better there Southstar. They're both pretty sick.
And as much as guys act macho about doing it at such a young age. It screws them up just as much (though perhaps in different ways) Guys who grow up these kinds of experiences begin to see them as a normal part of a relationship. Taking advantage of situations becomes common place. As you said men lead women on, but is this a case of nature or nurture? As you fragglerocker stated, take the 1950's for example this statement was not true to the same extent. The early 1900's was a time where the search for stability and a happy home was top priority, in a highly chaotic world.

Either way, It's not healthy.

I have to say, Fraggle Rocker. That even though Teeny-bopper girls of this generation, while they may act more sofisticated are, in my opinion less mature, less advanced, and less able to handle the real world. Or sexual advances of older students. The media is constantly bombarding young people with HIGHLY sexual messages, while they get feeble attempts at sex-ed in the classroom. This was not happening (or at least no where NEAR the same extent) in the 1950's. And while girls did more commonly give favours in the middle ages, in a socially acceptable way at very young ages it does in no way make it healthy. Think about the families influence, "You're a girl and you are worth nothing. We just have to marry you off as soon as possible.".

 

[§outh§tar]

The reverse issue isn't any better there Southstar. They're both pretty sick.
And as much as guys act macho about doing it at such a young age. It screws them up just as much (though perhaps in different ways) Guys who grow up these kinds of experiences begin to see them as a normal part of a relationship. Taking advantage of situations becomes common place. As you said men lead women on, but is this a case of nature or nurture? As you fragglerocker stated, take the 1950's for example this statement was not true to the same extent. The early 1900's was a time where the search for stability and a happy home was top priority, in a highly chaotic world.

I am unaware that "taking advantage of situations" is "not healthy". For we have heard reports that men think of sex every 5 seconds of whatever, I do suspect that this statistic applies to women as well. But then again, no question men think of sex more often Which is actually a shameful thing, to burn in one's passions. But the point is if you are doing it with your girlfriend's mom, as a male, you become a "pimp" in the eyes of your friend, your status is elevated society-wise. The self confidence is boosted. The advantages, albeit temporal, are too glaring for most to see past. Besides, the older female knows what it's all about before getting into the relationships.


Imagine yourself a 16 year old guy. Would you possibly, in your right mind, say no if Anna Kournikova asked you over to her house?

 

[Tiassa]

Initiating sexual activity too young is one of the ways a woman can send her chances of developing cervical cancer through the roof. Is it really a decent tradeoff for anything? A woman will have plenty of chances to shorten her lifespan and dive headlong into behaviors that would make any risk-assessor shudder. Why rush them?

 

[cyberia]

Southstar, would you rather have a meaningful relationship with Anna or simply a sexual conquest.

Let me push your concept a little further and use a situation given to me by a friend. (Albeit he was talking about drug use but the same loss of innocence and self-abuse/disrespect is relevent). He was explaining about how in his Jr. High days he had experimented quite a bit, tried alot of things and at the time he felt really self-important about it. But now less than 2-3 years later he's highly embarrased about what he once thought was "cool". One thing he feels particularly bad about was that his first time having sex, was while he and his gf of the time were on E. Yes he "took advantage of a situation" but the thing is that he took advantage of himself. And when I say "Take advantage" I mean it in a negative way. (ie: Yes Mr. Burly McChildmolester has the advantage over the 12 yr old locked in his basement. Should he take that advantage.)

Tiassa: I completely agree, but why can't we (or society) see that there are just as many negative effects on the male partners involved in the same situations.

 

[§outh§tar]

Southstar, would you rather have a meaningful relationship with Anna or simply a sexual conquest.

I was strictly speaking in terms of a 16 year old's mentality. You tell me.

Let me push your concept a little further and use a situation given to me by a friend. (Albeit he was talking about drug use but the same loss of innocence and self-abuse/disrespect is relevent). He was explaining about how in his Jr. High days he had experimented quite a bit, tried alot of things and at the time he felt really self-important about it. But now less than 2-3 years later he's highly embarrased about what he once thought was "cool". One thing he feels particularly bad about was that his first time having sex, was while he and his gf of the time were on E. Yes he "took advantage of a situation" but the thing is that he took advantage of himself. And when I say "Take advantage" I mean it in a negative way. (ie: Yes Mr. Burly McChildmolester has the advantage over the 12 yr old locked in his basement. Should he take that advantage.)

You are saying your friend ripped a 12 year old girl? Well we must understand that rape has an entirely different meaning in society. No older guy (generally speaking) would want anything to do with a 12 year old, regardless of how rich they are. I mean think of it on the guys side. If Anna Kournikova had you locked in her basement, would you want her to take advantage? Here's a hint, as a 16 year old, the answer is not yes. Even if you were married, the answer is probably not yes. Even if you were the pope.. well.. Status among your friends is IMMEDIATELY raised once word gets out on your "sexcapade". It's also not something you would regret any time soon, unless you found out during intercourse she had green mold growing on her.. anyway, you get the idea.

Tiassa's post has NOTHING to do with the guy part of things. Society makes it acceptable but that does not mean it is righteous, or even that I approve of it. I am just saying from society's point of view, a guy's escapades with an older partner are considered less harmful than a girl's. Whether it is or not is what we are haggling now.

 

[Lemming3k]

Imagine yourself a 16 year old guy. Would you possibly, in your right mind, say no if Anna Kournikova asked you over to her house?

I'd say no, and i aint much past 16, partly because im taken and partly because i'd rather have a relationship than just mindless sex, no matter who with, plus shes overrated, and i would have given the same answer at 16.

I think its been overlooked in this thread that many women want to be sexually active at a young age without fully understanding it, not just due to male influence and encouragement, its just how society has become, women now want to 'get some' as much as guys do, its far from being one sided anymore.

 

[robtex]

This is RobTex's GF. I have to say that this is an interesting discussion. You see...I can see it from different points of view for several reasons. First...I was date-raped at 19 and that is how I lost my virginity. It wasn't violent, but it was a violation. Whether I was 19 or 14, pressure is what put me in that position. I was not mature enough to deal with the consequences and it seriously messed up my head. For several years afterwards, I had meaningless sex with a few boys while in college and regret all of it deeply.

As for the guy's point of view. I know you all THINK it is macho to have sex with an older woman, BUT it is still statutory rape if she is of age and you are not. My brother was raped by the babysitter when he was 12. She was 21. He claims that this was simply the loss of his virginity. Sadly, he went on to a string of meaningless one-night stands and a very destructive relationship with my former sister-in-law. They abused each other physically, emotionally, and mentally. Trust me, she did just as much as he did when it came to abuse.

She was initiated into sex at a very young age as well. From these examples, I have learned that initiating sex or being initiated into sex too early is a very destructive thing for a person. Sadly, many children nowadays believe that they are ready to have a "relationship" and sex at FAR too young of an age. I am 28 years old and only just now figuring out how to have a real relationship that includes caring and intimacy.

 

[§outh§tar]

@ robtex's girlfriend

I must then reveal to you that "caring and intimacy" is overrated. Now before you bash me in your reply, I want you to know where I'm coming from. For a 16 year old, in his societal circles, "caring and intimacy" is overlooked. If she is fat, she is fat. Caring and intimacy simply don't fit into that equation.

Thank you though for your female perspective. It is not good for one burn in one's passions. I do understand that certain people are emotionally fragile and are therefore susceptible to peer pressure and temporal pleasure. But, as I am only trying to speak through the mouth of a 16 year old male, generally, if she is good looking and older, the first thing you do when you see that bulge is not think of "caring and intimacy".

 

[§outh§tar]

I'd say no, and i aint much past 16, partly because im taken and partly because i'd rather have a relationship than just mindless sex, no matter who with, plus shes overrated, and i would have given the same answer at 16.

I think its been overlooked in this thread that many women want to be sexually active at a young age without fully understanding it, not just due to male influence and encouragement, its just how society has become, women now want to 'get some' as much as guys do, its far from being one sided anymore.

Well then you have a bias because you are "taken" and you don't like Anna Kournikova.. It's ok, we all swing different ways :m

I'm sorry, I couldn't resist that one time..

It is not good to pin it on society or "male influence". The fact is, women think about sex as much as men do. It is actually society that is held more or less accountable for supression. They want it just as badly, whether or not someone "encourages " them.

Of course, this is a general saying and must be applied loosely.

 

[cyberia]

Hey southstar perhaps it couldn't hurt to think outside your box considering this is a thread in the forum of PHILOSOPHY.

And while "Caring and intimacy" may be highly overrated. An active sex life with no real emotion, or "caring and intimacy" does not lead to a stable healthy home life. Which is the ultimate goal of the sexual drive. Procreation of offspring which leads (at least in most people) to Maternal and paternal instincts. Ie: Raising healthy children.

Southstar: I'm trying to understand your point of view. Here's the message (in summary) that I am getting. "It's okay for a young girl (or boy) Who doesn't fully understand why they want to have sex or what have you. Not to mention they are not physically ready for the results. To be engaged in sexual activity, by someone either the same age or older. Because women want sex just as much as men do. And any twelve year old boy would be absolutly delighted to be raped because he could then brag about it to his friends as a sexual conquest. And that caring and intimacy has nothing to do with the sexual act, or relationships in general.

Isn't the number one excuse of rapists "she wanted it."

 

[Asguard]

Here is an interesting twist on this argument

why is it that when a male teacher sleeps with a young female student its a moral outrage but i was watching a news artical a while back about a sports teacher who slept with a 15 year old boy (THINK that was how old he was) and she was acting like she was a victom and so were the media

Her lawyer actually put in a motion to dismiss the case because "he wanted it"

In Victoria the age of concent is 16 UNLESS THE PERSON IS UNDER YOUR CARE (it specifically states teachers as an example) in which case its 18

so why is it that this is being treated as a joke rather than a seriouse problem?

another case
i know this isnt age related but it shows a sociatial problem

The woman from tomb raider's husband (cant think of either of there names right now) was seing a shrink to help him overcome nimphomania. The shrink was female and he ended up sleeping with her and the media was all "thats so apaling of him" and nothing about her

Now to my way of looking at it if he had a legit problem and was seeking help for it and the person he turned to for help who is a trusted health professional took advantage of that surly SHE is the one the media should be going after. She should never work again for breching the trust placed it her. Thats what would happen if it was a male doc and a female patent isnt it?

seems to me that to offten women are held up as inocent when they really shouldnt be and that men are in the wrong by defult even when they are betrayed by those who should be helping and protecting them (do you know in some countrys a guy legally CAN NOT be raped? at all, its automatically consentual when its the guy)

as for younger girls are they always pure and inocent and only wanting atention?

are guys ALWAYS only wanting to pressure the girl into bed?

sometimes it seems to me that MY GF is hornier than i am, Because she is younger than me does that mean im still just using her for sex? (we have been going out for a year and a half and she lives in another state so i only see her ever couple of months) and i have no contact with her school friends apart from when she introduces me to then (ie they ALREADY like her so how does dating me help that)

 

[Lemming3k]

Well then you have a bias because you are "taken" and you don't like Anna Kournikova.. It's ok, we all swing different ways :m
I'm sorry, I couldn't resist that one time..

I figured someone wouldnt be able to resist it, but if your looking for a reason why im bias its not because im taken, its because im interested in relationships more than just sex, maybe if anna wanted to marry me i'd think about it.

It is not good to pin it on society or "male influence". The fact is, women think about sex as much as men do. It is actually society that is held more or less accountable for supression. They want it just as badly, whether or not someone "encourages " them.
Of course, this is a general saying and must be applied loosely.

I think thats mostly what i was trying to get at, its becoming an equal society, its accepted now that some women want no strings sex same as its accepted that some men want it, its no longer male encouragement thats to blame, women are simply finally being allowed to get what they want and some want no strings sex.

Asguard:

as for younger girls are they always pure and inocent and only wanting atention?
are guys ALWAYS only wanting to pressure the girl into bed?

No in both cases.
Also its a very good point that sometimes men are automatically blamed for certain things when the blame is much more equal.