Afterlife and Pre-life

[heresJohnny]

I have a question I've been wondering about for a while.

We all heard about what is called 'Afterlife', the spiritual term in which a person's soul is passing out of this world whereas the material body remains in the ground. Now, unfortunately for us, we don't really know if this whole process is even true since no one has ever came back from the dead to back this story up with scientific evidence. Instead, we only have people who had near-death experiences, telling the same old stories over and over about a bright light, seeing dead relatives, etc.

So, assuming we can never know what kind of experience it is to die since (fortunately) we haven't come to our end yet, one could only imagine what happened BEFORE all of this, before we were born into this world or in simple - Pre-life. That is, If it's said that our soul can feel and see when we die, then why not before we are born? It came from the same place, same way... But how is it even possible when my oldest memory is from my 4-5 years old childhood, being alive? The rest is blank..

Would Afterlife be like Pre-life; an unlimited and unknown void in our entire life-time?
How does religion explain it?

 

[cosmictraveler]

Instead, we only have people who had near-death experiences, telling the same old stories over and over about a bright light, seeing dead relatives, etc.

So, assuming we can never know what kind of experience it is to die since (fortunately) we haven't come to our end yet.

But there are other people , like myself, who died for a period of time and have not seen any white lights, sounds or anything what so ever dealing with supernatural things. I was given a shot of radioactive iodine once that I didn't realize I was highly allergic to which caused me to die for about 3 minutes but was revived by the doctors giving me the exam. They told me that my heart stopped for about 3 minutes which meant I was dead. So I for one can attest that there's absoluly nothing that happens that would suggest any type of "afterlife" at all.

 

[Balerion]

But there are other people , like myself, who died for a period of time and have not seen any white lights, sounds or anything what so ever dealing with supernatural things. I was given a shot of radioactive iodine once that I didn't realize I was highly allergic to which caused me to die for about 3 minutes but was revived by the doctors giving me the exam. They told me that my heart stopped for about 3 minutes which meant I was dead. So I for one can attest that there's absoluly nothing that happens that would suggest any type of "afterlife" at all.

That says it all.

 

[heresJohnny]

They told me that my heart stopped for about 3 minutes which meant I was dead. So I for one can attest that there's absoluly nothing that happens that would suggest any type of "afterlife" at all.

Glad you're with us =]

Perhaps to doctors the medical term "dead" refers to 3 minutes of zero heart beat, but I know that people can be revived during CPR by much longer. In those 3 minutes you were unconscious but you still had enough oxygen to sustain some sort of brain activity. That's why it's so important to act fast when a person is having a heart attack, because the longer it takes the bigger the damage that is done to your brain.

Therefore, from my point of view, you can't claim there is nothing beyond this world as you never actually died.

 

[cosmictraveler]

Glad you're with us =]



Therefore, from my point of view, you can't claim there is nothing beyond this world as you never actually died.

Thank you, its good to be here at least for awhile longer.

Since my heart stopped my brain DID NOT receive any blood to it therefore it wasn't active without any oxygen circulating through it. My brain activity was also non existent as well. So for you to disagree with the medical professionals isn't something I'd think is right for you to do without at least consulting with them. You're not knowledgeable enough to determine whether I was or wasn't dead, only the doctors there were. They said I was dead so I believe them and not you and your "opinion" about what happened to me.

I did not have anything happen other than nothing at all when I was dead and I'm not trying to get attention but no one ever has wanted to get my story to write about, why do you think that has happened? All you get to read about is what they want you to hear and be told about, not all the other stories that are out here awaiting for someone to write about us. I guess there's no profit to be made by telling the other side of the story is there?:shrug:

 

[wynn]

Therefore, from my point of view, you can't claim there is nothing beyond this world as you never actually died.

Indeed.

There is quite a bit of controversy around what exactly constitutes death.

According to some definitions, death is certain only once rigor mortis sets in.

 

[heresJohnny]

Since my heart stopped my brain DID NOT receive any blood to it therefore it wasn't active without any oxygen circulating through it. My brain activity was also non existent as well. So for you to disagree with the medical professionals isn't something I'd think is right for you to do without at least consulting with them. You're not knowledgeable enough to determine whether I was or wasn't dead, only the doctors there were. They said I was dead so I believe them and not you and your "opinion" about what happened to me.

I agree. I am not a doctor, nor am I an expert in medical terminology. But if they said you were dead, then shouldn't I be talking to a dead person?
Or do doctors see death as something dynamic with flexible interpretation, because as for me, it could only mean one thing and that is you have reached the point of no return. There is no way back. That is why I believe you had a "near-death" experience and not a "total-death" one which is a good thing btw

I did not have anything happen other than nothing at all when I was dead and I'm not trying to get attention but no one ever has wanted to get my story to write about, why do you think that has happened? All you get to read about is what they want you to hear and be told about, not all the other stories that are out here awaiting for someone to write about us. I guess there's no profit to be made by telling the other side of the story is there?:shrug:

Of course, it's easier to get attached to the basic and simple concept of things. But putting this aside, lets say they start paying attention to you and they even listen to you, what would you tell them? That we are driven into a dead end? That life has no meaning? That we have been blessed with the questionable gift of knowing we are about to die, just so we can accomplish nothing?

 

[Enmos]

Therefore, from my point of view, you can't claim there is nothing beyond this world as you never actually died.

Then, for the same reason, people that do claim to have experienced an afterlife during a near-death experience are full of shit.

 

[Balerion]

I agree. I am not a doctor, nor am I an expert in medical terminology.

Should have just stopped there.

 

[cosmictraveler]

what would you tell them?

That we are driven into a dead end?

That life has no meaning?

I'd tell them that, in my opinion, there is no "afterlife" and to just try to do the best you can while you're alive and believe in yourself not some supernatural being that is supposed to control everything. Knowing the truth, in my opinion, is better than being led down a path that's full of deceit and lies for I'd rather know truth rather than conjecture, wouldn't you?

So life isn't , to me, a dead end, we just become one with the universe again as our atoms drift away into space and join other atoms to become something new somewhere again one day. We are made from the stars and we will just return to them.

Meaning to life is what you want it to mean not what some religion tells you it should be. Everyones different and believe in many things and many various life styles that get them through life. :itold:

 

[Mind Over Matter]

Life After Death: The Evidence

 

[michael_taylor]

How does religion explain it?

The Abrahamic ones say that there is no pre-life. The immortal soul (which is what makes you a person) is implanted by god at the moment of conception. You'd have to look further afield than the usual three flavours to hear anything about pre-life. Reincarnation features in some of the far eastern religions. Hinduism and Jainism definitely, maybe Sikhs believe something similar. With Buddhism, you can interpret it that way is you want, but it's not necessary.

From a naturalistic point of view, it doesn't seem a sensible speculation unless you have some reason to believe that a human mind can exist without a human brain, and some explanation for the fact that as far as we can tell destroying the brain destroys the mind.

If "it's god's invisible magic" satisfies you as a solution, I'd argue your contentment would benefit from leaving it at that.

 

[michael_taylor]

Evidence

Not what that word means. The word you're looking for is "opinion" or "belief".

(If that was some sort of joke I apologize for spoiling it.)

 

[wynn]

Meaning to life is what you want it to mean not what some religion tells you it should be. Everyones different and believe in many things and many various life styles that get them through life.

What makes you so sure that for some people, it is not the case that the meaning of life as they see it corresponds to what a religion teaches?

 

[Adstar]

I have a question I've been wondering about for a while.

We all heard about what is called 'Afterlife', the spiritual term in which a person's soul is passing out of this world whereas the material body remains in the ground. Now, unfortunately for us, we don't really know if this whole process is even true since no one has ever came back from the dead to back this story up with scientific evidence. Instead, we only have people who had near-death experiences, telling the same old stories over and over about a bright light, seeing dead relatives, etc.

So, assuming we can never know what kind of experience it is to die since (fortunately) we haven't come to our end yet, one could only imagine what happened BEFORE all of this, before we were born into this world or in simple - Pre-life. That is, If it's said that our soul can feel and see when we die, then why not before we are born? It came from the same place, same way... But how is it even possible when my oldest memory is from my 4-5 years old childhood, being alive? The rest is blank..

Would Afterlife be like Pre-life; an unlimited and unknown void in our entire life-time?
How does religion explain it?

The bible does not reveal a pre life existance. It states we are created We have a start point of our existance. From that time on we are eternal, that is we will never cease to exist after being created.

Explain it? whats to explain. And since as you say it is unprovable to someone who has not experianced it. Then how can it be explained?


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[Enmos]

Explain it? whats to explain. And since as you say it is unprovable to someone who has not experianced it. Then how can it be explained?

Then nothing needs to be explained since there is no indication whatsoever that an afterlife exists.
Why make stuff up?

 

[Jan Ardena]

heresJohnny

Instead, we only have people who had near-death experiences, telling the same old stories over and over about a bright light, seeing dead relatives, etc.

I would have thought that the stories being the same or very similar would be a case for the transmigration of the soul, as opposed to being against.

So, assuming we can never know what kind of experience it is to die since (fortunately) we haven't come to our end yet, one could only imagine what happened BEFORE all of this, before we were born into this world or in simple - Pre-life. That is, If it's said that our soul can feel and see when we die, then why not before we are born? It came from the same place, same way... But how is it even possible when my oldest memory is from my 4-5 years old childhood, being alive? The rest is blank..

Some people can remember when they were one.
My clearest memory is from about the age of three.

Would Afterlife be like Pre-life; an unlimited and unknown void in our entire life-time?
How does religion explain it?

The explanation is that we are pure spirit/consciousness/ego, who, due to our desires, take on bodies, in the material world, that is suited to our level of consciousness (compramised through desire). These bodies come into being, grow, get old, then die, at which point the spiritual soul, moves on to another body, suited to it's conscious level (karma and reincarnation). Once the spiritual soul realises it's real identity (pure spirit), it then can go back to it real plane of existence (spirit). That is a very crude explanation, but I hope it helps.


jan.

 

[heresJohnny]

Then, for the same reason, people that do claim to have experienced an afterlife during a near-death experience are full of shit.

I wouldn't go making harsh conclusions like that, especially when we could be talking about hundreds of thousands of people. However, it is possible they did experience something that has nothing to do with the spirtual world, like a dream. This phenomenon could then be explained as physiological and neurological effects associated with our dying brain. Hence, it can only occur under extreme health conditions.

 

[Enmos]

I wouldn't go making harsh conclusions like that, especially when we could be talking about hundreds of thousands of people. However, it is possible they did experience something that has nothing to do with the spirtual world, like a dream. This phenomenon could then be explained as physiological and neurological effects associated with our dying brain. Hence, it can only occur under extreme health conditions.

Therefore, from my point of view, you can't claim there is nothing beyond this world as you never actually died.

Well, in your view, people can't claim that there is anything beyond this world as they have never actually died.
If they then do claim that there is something beyond this world then they are full of shit :shrug:

full of shit (rude)
completely wrong, false, or worthless
http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/full+of+shit

full of shit
adjective
(idiom), (vulgar) characterized by speaking nonsense or falsehoods
http://www.allwords.com/word-full+of+shit.html

full of shit
1) Totally unfounded, not credible, or ridiculous...usually refers to something somebody just said.
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=full of shit

 

[heresJohnny]

Well, in your view, people can't claim that there is anything beyond this world as they have never actually died.
If they then do claim that there is something beyond this world then they are full of shit :shrug:

That's just the point. We can't know because it's possible we haven't been there yet. According to that logic, they can't claim there is something beyond this world as much as you can't prove otherwise. That is why I suggested to focus on what happens "before" instead of "after".