After/If Jesus returns what purpose will we have?

[Adstar]

Okay, so Jesus saved us because:
1) The Mediator’s Death Necessary - Who is the Mediator?

The Mediator is Jesus. I am surprised you had to ask this.

Why is the mediator's death necessary?

Because it is only by Blood that sin is atoned for. Perfect blood makes us perfect.

2) Greatness of Christ’s Sacrifice - Not a reason, a description.

Are you asking a question or giving a statement?

3) Christ’s Death Fulfills God’s Will - Why was it God's will?

Because it is only by Blood that sin is atoned for. And the Blood of Jesus is perfect.

Also, Jesus was God, so that would mean God was doing his own will.

Ahhh the mystery of the trinity.

4) Christ’s Death Perfects the Sanctified - ?

It is through the Blood of Jesus that our sins are covered and we are acceptable to God to be perfected upon the day of the Reasurection. We are Sanctified by His Blood not by our own rightiousness.

There's a problem with the whole "Jesus = sinless" equation. Now if a normal human lived a sinless life, that would be impressive and worthy of God giving grace to all mankind. However, Jesus had the Spirit of God. He WAS God. So obviously God cannot sin against himself. Also, the Spirit of God has a far better chance at not sinning than the Spirit of Man.

Who said it was impressive? I am not impressed by the fact that Jesus lived a perfect life. He was born perfect and it was a natural outcome that He would live a perfect life. So what is the problem?

Let's look at it this way. Take two Spirits that are in heaven. Spirit A is the spirit of an Angel. Spirit J is the Spirit of Jesus. Both of these spirits will be coming down to earth in two days as babies and will live out full human lives.

Let's assume someone offered you $2 million if you could guess which Spirit would live the least sinless life. Which Spirit would you choose?

I would not have to guess. there would be no risk about it i would pick Jesus and take your $2 million.

Clearly you would choose Spirit J, because the Spirit of Jesus has a 100% of living a sinless life. Spirit A on the other hand has a 78% chance of living a sinless life. The fact that Jesus lived a sinless life is not impressive is in this case.

How do you come to the 78% chance for the angel? And once again why do you think it should be impressive that Jesus lived a sinless life? I don't.

Keep in mind, don't look at my tone as being demeaning. I'm trying to ask the tough questions here so my language is going to be sarcastic sometimes to make a point.

Ohhh most of the replies in here are demeaning and sarcastic, it's natural behaviour for atheists. Am i offended? I am about as offended as i am impressed that Jesus lived a sinless life. I accept that the level of discourse with atheists will be low, that’s natural.



All Praise The Ancient Of Days

PS: Actually your sarcasm and demeaning is relatively mild compared to the norm in here.

 

[nds1]

Who said it was impressive? I am not impressed by the fact that Jesus lived a perfect life. He was born perfect and it was a natural outcome that He would live a perfect life. So what is the problem?

I was under the impression that all humans were born natural sinners. So Jesus wasn't human then?

We both agree that Jesus not sinning was not impressive by any means. The fact that Jesus couldn't sin takes away the signifigance of his existence and sacrifice. He was basically going through the motions.

Back to that 1 Peter verse for a minute:

1 Peter 3
18For Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive by the Spirit, 19through whom also he went and preached to the spirits in prison 20who disobeyed long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built.

Here is my interpretation of this verse:

If a human is an atheist, lives as sinful and pleasurable a life as possible, then dies without believing in God, let alone Jesus, they will go to a hell type prison. While in prison, they will be preached to by Jesus and see him face to face. Then, after the 1,000 year First Resurection, they will be let free because Jesus preached to them in prison and believed in him because they saw him face to face. So we can live as sinful and as pleasurable life as we want right now, and then get a "get out of jail free" card because of Jesus. Sounds like a good deal.

Rev 20:12-15
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
KJV

I see no relation from the 1 Peter verse to this in Revelations. Adstar, please explain your interpretation of the 1 Peter verse and how it relates to Revelation. Thanks.

 

[Adstar]

I was under the impression that all humans were born natural sinners. So Jesus wasn't human then?

Jesus came in a human body and experienced the pain of death. But you are right that He was not the same as us humans. Because He never sinned.

We both agree that Jesus not sinning was not impressive by any means. The fact that Jesus couldn't sin takes away the signifigance of his existence and sacrifice. He was basically going through the motions.

I don't understand why you think Jesus sin status has a negative effect on the effectiveness of His sacrifice to Redeem those who rely on it? All it does is make it more effective. Jesus is a Perfect sacrifice and gives us access to eternity in a perfect existence. The only effect is positive not negative. So what if Jesus knew what was to happen. So what if He was going through the motions. The motions work to bring salvation to the world.

Back to that 1 Peter verse for a minute:

1 Peter 3
18For Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive by the Spirit, 19through whom also he went and preached to the spirits in prison 20who disobeyed long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built.

Here is my interpretation of this verse:

If a human is an atheist, lives as sinful and pleasurable a life as possible, then dies without believing in God, let alone Jesus, they will go to a hell type prison. While in prison, they will be preached to by Jesus and see him face to face. Then, after the 1,000 year First Resurrection, they will be let free because Jesus preached to them in prison and believed in him because they saw him face to face. So we can live as sinful and as pleasurable life as we want right now, and then get a "get out of jail free" card because of Jesus. Sounds like a good deal.

Not if they have heard the Message of Jesus and have rejected Him. You do not have this possible luxury nds, neither does anyone who has heard the truth of Jesus. atheists who have rejected Jesus in this life will not get a second chance in death. i believe that only atheists who have never been told of Jesus and have never rejected Him will get the option.

Rev 20:12-15
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
KJV

I see no relation from the 1 Peter verse to this in Revelations. Adstar, please explain your interpretation of the 1 Peter verse and how it relates to Revelation. Thanks.

What is inconsistent with the two portions of scripture?

Everyone will face judgement. But that judgement in relation to those who have accepted Jesus as Messiah will not include the possibility of the eternal lake of fire. While those who have rejected Jesus as Messiah will be heading for the eternal lake of fire after their judgement.

Those who believe in Jesus will be declared guilty but forgiven.

Those who reject Jesus will be declared guilty and unforgiven.

The book of life records all the people who will have eternal life with God


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[nds1]

The Mediator is Jesus. I am surprised you had to ask this.

I thought the mediator could have been God.


Adstar, I asked why the death of the mediator was necessary. You responded as follows:

Because it is only by Blood that sin is atoned for. Perfect blood makes us perfect.

Let me translate into my interpretation of what you have said here:

It is only through the physical death of the mediator that God can forgive us for our sins.

My response: Why can't God simply find it in his heart to forgive us without the Blood, or death, of Jesus? Also, since we both agree that Jesus's death wasn't impressive, how could his Blood, or death, have impressed God enough to forgive us?

How do you come to the 78% chance for the angel?

lol. I guessed. Michael the archangel probably would have a 93% chance, but I just figured an average angel would be around 78%.


Also I made the following statement:

So we can live as sinful and as pleasurable life as we want right now, and then get a "get out of jail free" card because of Jesus. Sounds like a good deal.

You responded:

Not if they have heard the Message of Jesus and have rejected Him. You do not have this possible luxury nds, neither does anyone who has heard the truth of Jesus. atheists who have rejected Jesus in this life will not get a second chance in death. i believe that only atheists who have never been told of Jesus and have never rejected Him will get the option.

Let me present a different situation:

Let's assume there was a Native American man who lived in North America before Jesus was born. He had no way of even considering the existence of Jesus. Let's also assume that this man was an atheist, and didn't believe in God. In fact, this man murdered people who did believe in a God, just because he felt like it. Also, this man commited mamimum sins per day and lived a life of complete self-satisfaction until he died.

According to you I think, Adstar, after his physical death this man's spirit would be sent by God to the spiritual prision presented in 1 Peter. Then, this man would be preached to by Jesus himself and see him face to face. Then, if the man now accepts Jesus as his savior, this man could still live on the "new earth/heaven" eternally with God.

So this man could do whatever he wants on this earth, not even believe in a God, and still live in heaven eternally. It just sounds kind of unfair to me. Also, not only do humans today have to believe in a God, but we also have to believe in a Gospel written by mostly unknown writers 2000 years ago. This Gospel is in a Bible which contains many myths:
Myths:
1) Adam and Eve
2) Murder by Cain of Abel
3) etc.

You seem to have a firm belief in Jesus Adstar. I respect your belief and hope I can end my own confusion as well. However, I wonder if you would still be such a believer if you born in a Middle East Islamic family with parents who had firm beliefs in the Muslim religion, and if you went to the Muslim church every week and worshipped there and saw all the other firm Islamic believers there who worshipped with firm belief and great joy.

Reasons why existence of Jesus is unfair for everyone after his existence:
1. Those who existed before Jesus could gain access into heaven without believing in a God or living a holy life. Those after Jesus don't have that luxury.
2. It is very hard for many to believe in a story about Jesus written 2000 years ago by unknown authors, some of which never even met Jesus. Before Jesus, you didn't have to believe in any far-fetched mythical stories to get into heaven. In fact, you didn't even have to believe in God. After Jesus, however, if we don't believe in this far-fetch miracle filled story, then we will go to the lake of fire forever simply because we have heard from some source that it could have been true.
3. Those people who died before Jesus who were sinners went to a spiritual Prison mentioned in 1 Peter. They got to see Jesus face to face, spirit to spirit, up close and personal so that there is no room for doubt of his existence. Everyone after Jesus however doesn't have that luxury. We have to believe in the myth filled symbolic book called the Bible with Dr. Suess type stories like Adam and Eve eating apples, Cain murdering able, seas parting, people flying, etc. If we don't believe in Jesus from this book, we go to hell forever and suffer for ever.
4. Let's take a look at the Catholic Church today. What if you went to church and listened to a Reverand your life about Jesus only to find out that the Reverand you came to trust was a child molester. If you decided that everything the Reverand had taught about Jesus was BS because now you're extremely confused, you go to: The infamous lake of fire.
5. Let's say you were born in a Middle East Islamic family with parent's who believed whole-heartedly in the Muslim faith. So you do as well because you grew up under that religion. Apparently, you will die after living a holy life commited to God and you will burn forever in the Lake of Fire.

I could go on and on but I don't have the time. The point is, getting into heaven after Jesus is now extremely hard. For people before him, it was extremely easy. Something's not right here.

 

[Adstar]

I thought the mediator could have been God.


Adstar, I asked why the death of the mediator was necessary. You responded as follows:

Because it is only by Blood that sin is atoned for. Perfect blood makes us perfect.

Let me translate into my interpretation of what you have said here:

It is only through the physical death of the mediator that God can forgive us for our sins.

My response: Why can't God simply find it in his heart to forgive us without the Blood, or death, of Jesus? Also, since we both agree that Jesus's death wasn't impressive, how could his Blood, or death, have impressed God enough to forgive us?

Because God must be Just. He must demonstrate Justice to the Hevenly Host. God is not just dealing with humans. He is also dealing with the Angels. God demostrates His love for us by willingly taking the punishment that Justice demands we take for our sins. By the Death of Jesus God satisfies two needs. 1 To provide a way to salvage a sabotarged humanity and 2. Provide a way to demostrate to the Hevenly host His justification for being the One and Only God. He satisfies Justice and defeats the satanic challenge to His ultimate Authority. Remember satan and one third of the angels are in rebellion against God. Sometimes i think the universe was created to ensnare satan in his own cunning.

lol. I guessed. Michael the archangel probably would have a 93% chance, but I just figured an average angel would be around 78%.

Weird lol.

Also I made the following statement:

"So we can live as sinful and as pleasurable life as we want right now, and then get a "get out of jail free" card because of Jesus. Sounds like a good deal."

You responded:

Not if they have heard the Message of Jesus and have rejected Him. You do not have this possible luxury nds, neither does anyone who has heard the truth of Jesus. atheists who have rejected Jesus in this life will not get a second chance in death. i believe that only atheists who have never been told of Jesus and have never rejected Him will get the option.

Let me present a different situation:

Let's assume there was a Native American man who lived in North America before Jesus was born. He had no way of even considering the existence of Jesus. Let's also assume that this man was an atheist, and didn't believe in God. In fact, this man murdered people who did believe in a God, just because he felt like it. Also, this man commited mamimum sins per day and lived a life of complete self-satisfaction until he died.

According to you I think, Adstar, after his physical death this man's spirit would be sent by God to the spiritual prision presented in 1 Peter. Then, this man would be preached to by Jesus himself and see him face to face. Then, if the man now accepts Jesus as his savior, this man could still live on the "new earth/heaven" eternally with God.

So this man could do whatever he wants on this earth, not even believe in a God, and still live in heaven eternally. It just sounds kind of unfair to me.

First one protests that it is unfair that people who have never heard of Jesus will go to the eternal lake of fire and when i reveal that those who died without knowing Jesus will be given the opertunity to hear the gospel and accept Him and be saved I hear that it is again unfair... Damned if you do damned if you don't.

Maybe you have visions in your head of Jesus going the the prison preceded by 1000 angels blowing their golden trumpets heralding His arrival and then Jesus walks in with His glowing white garment a dazzeling vision for all to see?

What if Jesus went to the prison in His beaten up body with the marks of His execution with dried blood on his back for all to see. What if Jesus looked like a man who had been executed for blsphemy? What would the people in prison think of His message about being the Messiah? About being their to save them? I think a large number would start to laugh out loud and think that another crazy man had arrieved in the prison destined for the lake of fire.

You think it is a forgorn conclusion that everyone in the prison would accept Jesus as the Messiah. Maybe your conclusion is based on a preconcieved misconception?

Also, not only do humans today have to believe in a God, but we also have to believe in a Gospel written by mostly unknown writers 2000 years ago. This Gospel is in a Bible which contains many myths:
Myths:
1) Adam and Eve
2) Murder by Cain of Abel
3) etc.

Well thats the thing isn't it. You see myths i see wisdom and revealtion. You see foolishness i see the power and Love of God.


1 Corinthians 1
18 For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. 19 For it is written:

“ I will destroy the wisdom of the wise,
And bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.”

20 Where is the wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the disputer of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? 21 For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through wisdom did not know God, it pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe. 22 For Jews request a sign, and Greeks seek after wisdom; 23 but we preach Christ crucified, to the Jews a stumbling block and to the Greeks foolishness, 24 but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. 25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men.

You seem to have a firm belief in Jesus Adstar. I respect your belief and hope I can end my own confusion as well. However, I wonder if you would still be such a believer if you born in a Middle East Islamic family with parents who had firm beliefs in the Muslim religion, and if you went to the Muslim church every week and worshipped there and saw all the other firm Islamic believers there who worshipped with firm belief and great joy.

What has this got to do with anything? If i was a Muslim and i heard the Gospel and rejected it then i would be damned as much as the hindu or atheist who rejected the Gospel. I was brought up in a catholic family, with a devout father i never missed a sunday mass for 17 years. I was an alter boy for 10 of them. I prayed the hail mary more times than i could count. But when i read the Gospel i had to make a decision. Honour the will of God or honour the will of my dad and family and community. I choose God and the Gospel. It was hard but it was necessary. I have talked to a former Egyptian army officer who read the Gospel, one day he had to make the same decision, his muslim family attempted to have him killed. He had to leave everything and go into hiding even the local coptic’s would not have anything to do with him out of fear of the muslims (a blessing in disguise). He was alone but he was not alone because he had the Holy Spirit. Each and every person who hears the Gospel must make their decision to accept it and if necessary forsake all else or reject it.

Reasons why existence of Jesus is unfair for everyone after his existence:
1. Those who existed before Jesus could gain access into heaven without believing in a God or living a holy life. Those after Jesus don't have that luxury.

The only way to have eternity with The God of Abraham is to accept the gift of salvation that Jesus has obtained. No one has eternity in any other way but via Jesus. Have you been listening to what i have been revealing? If you had then why make this statement? All these people before the time of Jesus would be given the opportunity to accept Him or reject him.

2. It is very hard for many to believe in a story about Jesus written 2000 years ago by unknown authors, some of which never even met Jesus. Before Jesus, you didn't have to believe in any far-fetched mythical stories to get into heaven. In fact, you didn't even have to believe in God. After Jesus, however, if we don't believe in this far-fetch miracle filled story, then we will go to the lake of fire forever simply because we have heard from some source that it could have been true.

Why do people keep on using the age of a revelation to try to debunk it? If someone dug up a 6000 year old clay tablet in Egypt that proclaimed that grass was green would it be of lesser validity because of its age? It matters not a jot if a revelation is one year old or 10.000 years old if it is true then it is true. And once again there is only one way to God that that is through Jesus. And miracles? It is easy to believe in miracles if one believes that a Creator God exists. When one looks at the majesty of the universe the miracles of Jesus look like child’s play.

3. Those people who died before Jesus who were sinners went to a spiritual Prison mentioned in 1 Peter. They got to see Jesus face to face, spirit to spirit, up close and personal so that there is no room for doubt of his existence.

And the people who lived in the time of Jesus saw him face to face also and ended up killing Him. and you and i can read His words and love them or hate them. You assume that the people in prison would have no room to reject Jesus. Maybe your very wrong in your preconception.

Everyone after Jesus however doesn't have that luxury. We have to believe in the myth filled symbolic book called the Bible with Dr. Suess type stories like Adam and Eve eating apples, Cain murdering able, seas parting, people flying, etc. If we don't believe in Jesus from this book, we go to hell forever and suffer for ever.

Read the Gospels Matthew Mark Luke and John, Read the letters of the apostles read it as a whole and make your mind up. There is enough in the Word of God to give the necessary information for one to make a choice.

4. Let's take a look at the Catholic Church today. What if you went to church and listened to a Reverand your life about Jesus only to find out that the Reverand you came to trust was a child molester. If you decided that everything the Reverand had taught about Jesus was BS because now you're extremely confused, you go to: The infamous lake of fire.

Then that person has been a follower of a man and not a follower of the Messiah Jesus. When people place their faith in priests, pastors, reverends, popes or preachers then they are placing their faith in faulty men. Ones relationship with God should be via Jesus not via some overdressed and overpaid TV evangelist who flashes charisma and a plastic smile. So what if the reverend is caught molesting children? so what is the evangelist is caught in adultery? So what if the pastor commits murder? Are they God? Are they Jesus? No. People should rely on the Word of God and test what the reverends and evangelists preach against it. Not rely on what the reverend preaches and get demoralized when his sin is found out.

If the foundation of ones faith is another person then one has built their faith on quicksand.

5. Let's say you were born in a Middle East Islamic family with parent's who believed whole-heartedly in the Muslim faith. So you do as well because you grew up under that religion. Apparently, you will die after living a holy life commited to God and you will burn forever in the Lake of Fire.

You have not been listening to what i have been saying have you. How many more times must i tell you that every person will be given a chance to either accept Jesus or reject Jesus.

I could go on and on but I don't have the time. The point is, getting into heaven after Jesus is now extremely hard. For people before him, it was extremely easy. Something's not right here.

It is dead easy to accept the gift that Jesus is offering you. Because it is not through achieving perfection but via belief that we are saved through Jesus.

Romans 10
8 But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart”(that is, the word of faith which we preach): 9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.” 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[Chatha]

Okay, so Jesus saved us because:
1) The Mediator’s Death Necessary - Who is the Mediator? Why is the mediator's death necessary?
2) Greatness of Christ’s Sacrifice - Not a reason, a description.
3) Christ’s Death Fulfills God’s Will - Why was it God's will? Also, Jesus was God, so that would mean God was doing his own will.
4) Christ’s Death Perfects the Sanctified - ?

There's a problem with the whole "Jesus = sinless" equation. Now if a normal human lived a sinless life, that would be impressive and worthy of God giving grace to all mankind. However, Jesus had the Spirit of God. He WAS God. So obviously God cannot sin against himself. Also, the Spirit of God has a far better chance at not sinning than the Spirit of Man.

Let's look at it this way. Take two Spirits that are in heaven. Spirit A is the spirit of an Angel. Spirit J is the Spirit of Jesus. Both of these spirits will be coming down to earth in two days as babies and will live out full human lives.

Let's assume someone offered you $2 million if you could guess which Spirit would live the least sinless life. Which Spirit would you choose?

Clearly you would choose Spirit J, because the Spirit of Jesus has a 100% of living a sinless life. Spirit A on the other hand has a 78% chance of living a sinless life. The fact that Jesus lived a sinless life is not impressive is in this case.

Keep in mind, don't look at my tone as being demeaning. I'm trying to ask the tough questions here so my language is going to be sarcastic sometimes to make a point.

The lord works in myserious ways, nds1

 

[nds1]

Sometimes i think the universe was created to ensnare satan in his own cunning.

I think this a valid theory. I can't think of any other reason for God to create this material universe other than as a response to Satan's fall, and mankind'
s purpose then is probably to restore the earth to God from Satan since Satan has corrupted it.

What if Jesus went to the prison in His beaten up body with the marks of His execution with dried blood on his back for all to see. What if Jesus looked like a man who had been executed for blsphemy? What would the people in prison think of His message about being the Messiah? About being their to save them? I think a large number would start to laugh out loud and think that another crazy man had arrieved in the prison destined for the lake of fire.

Good points. We don't know what the prison is like.

If someone dug up a 6000 year old clay tablet in Egypt that proclaimed that grass was green would it be of lesser validity because of its age?

True. But we can see that it is valid by simply looking outside at the green grass. It's a bit harder to prove that Jesus was the Son of God or performed any miracles since there is 0 first-hand written accounts.

When people place their faith in priests, pastors, reverends, popes or preachers then they are placing their faith in faulty men.

I fully agree with you here. These guys do more harm than good most of the time.

 

[Adstar]

I think this a valid theory. I can't think of any other reason for God to create this material universe other than as a response to Satan's fall, and mankind'
s purpose then is probably to restore the earth to God from Satan since Satan has corrupted it.

Dwelling on it more i believe God often does things that achieve multiple objectives at the same time. God probably did intend to create Humans and the universe for a reason independent of the satanic challenge but why not achieve two things with one action. There could be 10 reasons why God willed for the universe to exist. We can only speculate.

Good points. We don't know what the prison is like.

True We don't. And i don't really want to find out. LOL

True. But we can see that it is valid by simply looking outside at the green grass. It's a bit harder to prove that Jesus was the Son of God or performed any miracles since there is 0 first-hand written accounts.

The important thing is not the miracles. The important thing is the message of Jesus. Look at His message, look at the incredible wisdom of it. Look how counter it is to worldly wisdom. Think of how incredible it is that His message has survived in this world. Such a faith that preaches loving your enemies and turning the cheek should never survive in this world. It runs counter to the needs of the powers that be in this world. It runs counter to every theory of human survival and self-preservation. Such a faith should have died centuries ago, but the Word is still preserved. How awesome is God that He could use those who sought to infiltrate and sabotage the Gospel to actually carry the Gospel truth to the world. Even in rebellion they end up being used to serve Gods ultimate goal.



All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[nds1]

In any case though, we can still observe what the state of everything will be according to Revelations:

Rev 21:1-5
21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.
KJV

So here is the new state of things:

Heaven and Earth are still separate. The old heaven and old earth are gone though, and both are new. However, God will come down from out of heaven and live with his people on the earth. So God will live either solely on the earth, or on the earth and in heaven at the same time.

Adstar, this still presents a scary situation. We know that two thirds of the angels didn"t fall, however they are still capable of falling as Lucifer did. This means that another angel might fall just as Lucifer did, and then the earth will be corrupt again and the process of restoration will start over again.

Those angels which didn't fall all still are capable of sinning. Just something to consider.

 

[Adstar]

Adstar, this still presents a scary situation. We know that two thirds of the angels didn"t fall, however they are still capable of falling as Lucifer did. This means that another angel might fall just as Lucifer did, and then the earth will be corrupt again and the process of restoration will start over again.

Those angels which didn't fall all still are capable of sinning. Just something to consider.

Interesting thoughts.

Well angels are eternal and the angels that where present when satan first made his challenge to Gods Authority are still there now, and they have seen the whole string of events play out. So in the end the two thirds will known just how absolutely overwhelming is the wisdom and power and love of God is.

So thinking as a human, why would they attempt to rebel against God again when they have seen one of their fellows (one greater then them all) fails so dismally and so conclusively?

Also we believe that upon the resurrection we will be made Good by the power of God. We will become knowledgeable in all these things. So if another angel tried to deceive then their efforts would fall to the ground immediately.

I have no fear about any future potential rebellions of angels, I believe God will only need to demonstrate once His abilities to put any thoughts of rebellion out of the minds of anyone in the Heavenly Host.

We can look at ourselves as an example. Most wars start when people who have never experienced war think it is a good idea. Most people who are the greatest anti war thinkers are ones who have seen the reality of war and it’s suffering. In a human context we continue to repeat warfare because we forget as a people just how terrible war is. Just like how people keep on moving back to live on the flanks of a volcanoe that has not erupted for a few generations. memories of disaster die with the generation that experienced it and their warnings become a distant forgotten echo of the past or even a myth.. lol.

But when we have eternal life we are the ones who have experienced the disaster and we know first hand just what the effects of rebellion against God are. Remember satan and his angels will be writhing in pain in the lake of fire. So how will anyone be able to forget the futility and ultimate consequences of rebellion?


All Praise The Ancient Of Days