After/If Jesus returns what purpose will we have?
- Thread starter nds1
- Start date
I can understand what you're saying. But still, it is interesting to think about what exactly our purpose will be when there are no more wars in heaven or an earth as we currently know it. Also, the bible seems to mention various heavenly incidents which occur which, if one believes in the bible, seems to give some insight into what goes on in heaven. For example:
Job 1
6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.
7 And the LORD said unto Satan, "Whence comest thou?" Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, "From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it".
King James Version
Here a meeting in heaven is taking place. The "sons" are presenting themselves. They are engaging in some kind of activity. They are doing something.
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1 Kings 22:19-22
19 And he said, Hear thou therefore the word of the LORD: I saw the LORD sitting on his throne, and all the host of heaven standing by him on his right hand and on his left.
20 And the LORD said, Who shall persuade Ahab, that he may go up and fall at Ramoth-gilead? And one said on this manner, and another said on that manner.
21 And there came forth a spirit, and stood before the LORD, and said, I will persuade him.
22 And the LORD said unto him, Wherewith? And he said, I will go forth, and I will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And he said, Thou shalt persuade him, and prevail also: go forth, and do so.
KJV
So here it seems that God is ordering spirits do things in heaven. Of course, back to my original point, with no "Ahab" or other earthly human to "persuade" in the "new world," there will be no orders for God to give.
it's fun.
and if you have fun, you're in heaven.
nds1 said:
there is no eternal heaven because nothing lasts forever.
only nothing.
and nothing can't exist.
the fact that everything changes is the only thing that never changes.
only the universe (life, change) is eternal: life comes from god (the source), then it returns to god, then it separates from god again. and so on. forever. because nothing (perfection, god) cannot be (because it includes everything).
there are humans on other planets.
C7, you bring up another interesting question. If there are humans on other planets, must there have been a "Jesus" on every one of those planets and did that "Jesus" succeed at being sinless in each case? Or is there only one "Son" of God so it then our duty as citizens of Earth to send missionaries to other planets and tell them about Jesus and that if they don't believe in him they will perish (kind of like how christians had to tell the indians that when they first arrived in North America because the Indians had no clue who Jesus was. Why would they? He lived on the other side of the world.)
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M*W: How do you know for sure there is a heaven?
when you drive somewhere with your car. don't think too much about what you will do when you get there. concentrate on the driving or you might have an accident.
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M*W: Good advice for happy motoring, but if there was a heaven, this life would be the accident.
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M*W: Actually, c7ityi_, just assuming you exist is enough for me. The question is, do you know you exist?
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M*W: I'm not really concerned about becoming non-existent. At least for the next couple of generations, I'm sure I will live on in the memories of my progeny long after I've become worm food.
nds You have stated that you are "currently neutral"
But then you come out with this, dripping with anti God sarcasm:
So are you neutral or not? It does not seem so at all. And why do you ask questions about the future when you seem to know more than most "christians" who never bother reading the book of Revelation let alone the OT books of prophecy?
You quote scriptures both OT and NT, seems to me you are probably well read in the scriptures, even if you have missed one elementary piece of wisdom that comes from the Gospels. But i will get to that later in this post.
The basic question you are asking is what we will do in eternity? (Well the ones who will be with God that is, you seem to already know what those who will not be with God will be doing.)
Now tell me why are you asking people what God has not revealed through scriptures??? What is the point of asking when you should now that the only answers you would get would be speculation and the ideas of men??? I could tell you that we will be making chocolate computers in eternity, but in the end what value would that be to you?
There is no point in asking humans a question that no human has the definitive answer for. So why ask.
Ok back to the basic Gospel point you seem to have missed from all your bible reading.
You state in your original post:
The belief of Christianity is that Jesus will return to the earth eventually as King and rule the earth. Satan and every other sinner will be cast out (but not destroyed I think) and everyone else will live with the Lord on the "new" earth.
Basic Christianity: Jesus came to save sinners from the wrath of The eternal lake of fire.
Now if every other sinner will be joining satan in the lake of fire then Jesus has saved no one. Because as you should have also picked up from your bible reading every human being is a sinner and no human being has lived a sinless life (apart from the little ones who die not yet knowing Good and Evil)
So a great number of sinners will be spending eternity with God and will not be in the Lake of Fire with satan in eternity. But of course they will not be sinning in eternity because they will be changed upon the resurrection.
All Praise The Ancient Of Days
But then you come out with this, dripping with anti God sarcasm:
So are you neutral or not? It does not seem so at all. And why do you ask questions about the future when you seem to know more than most "christians" who never bother reading the book of Revelation let alone the OT books of prophecy?
You quote scriptures both OT and NT, seems to me you are probably well read in the scriptures, even if you have missed one elementary piece of wisdom that comes from the Gospels. But i will get to that later in this post.
The basic question you are asking is what we will do in eternity? (Well the ones who will be with God that is, you seem to already know what those who will not be with God will be doing.)
Now tell me why are you asking people what God has not revealed through scriptures??? What is the point of asking when you should now that the only answers you would get would be speculation and the ideas of men??? I could tell you that we will be making chocolate computers in eternity, but in the end what value would that be to you?
There is no point in asking humans a question that no human has the definitive answer for. So why ask.
Ok back to the basic Gospel point you seem to have missed from all your bible reading.
You state in your original post:
The belief of Christianity is that Jesus will return to the earth eventually as King and rule the earth. Satan and every other sinner will be cast out (but not destroyed I think) and everyone else will live with the Lord on the "new" earth.
Basic Christianity: Jesus came to save sinners from the wrath of The eternal lake of fire.
Now if every other sinner will be joining satan in the lake of fire then Jesus has saved no one. Because as you should have also picked up from your bible reading every human being is a sinner and no human being has lived a sinless life (apart from the little ones who die not yet knowing Good and Evil)
So a great number of sinners will be spending eternity with God and will not be in the Lake of Fire with satan in eternity. But of course they will not be sinning in eternity because they will be changed upon the resurrection.
All Praise The Ancient Of Days
Exuse my sarcasm, and I'm sorry if I offended anyone. However, my sarcasm is not anti God, it is anti-religion or anti-bible. Anti God would imply that I said something against God, which I didn't. I was merely being sarcastic about the christian view of life as presented in Revelations. To me, most/all religious instiutions are corrupt. Also, the bible is questionable. So am I anti-god? Not by any means. Anti-Bible and Anti-Religion? Currently, yes.
But back to the arguement:
You stated that Jesus came to save sinners from the wrath of the lake of fire.
Question 1: How do you define sinners? I define a sinner in terms of christianity as "a person who was born as a human and as a sinner, never accepted Jesus as their personal savior, and lived a sinful life until they physically died." So if you continue to sin until the point that you physically die, you go to hell, or the Lake of Fire.
What defines a sinner is not what we were born as, but what we died as, or how we lived our lives.
What you are saying Adstar, and correct me if I'm wrong, is that because Jesus saved us we can now sin as much as we want on this earth and do whatever we want (murder, adultery, etc) and still "spend eternity with God" guaranteed. This is a very controversial assumption you have made. This means no human that lives on this earth can go to hell no matter what we do.
Question 2: Adstar, you also stated that "But of course they will not be sinning in eternity because they will be changed upon the resurrection."
There are two resurrections in the bible. The one where Jesus was resurrected three days after physically dying, and the one mentioned in Revelations. Which one are you referring to?
Question 3: If a person, born as a sinner, lives as sinful a life as possible to their death, and doesn't believe in God or Jesus to their death, what happens to that person in the afterlife?
Question 4: How did Jesus save us? Adstar, if you can answer that question you would seriously be helping me out a lot. In fact I have a whole other thread up on that question. It's great to say "Jesus came to save us from our sins," but if you can't generally explain how he saved anyone, then that statement isn't really saying much.
Yes, Jesus came to save "sinners" (humans born in the material world of the Earth). However, according to christianity, you cannot be saved unless you believe in Jesus and live a life worthy of being saved (meaning you put forth a certain amount of effort to "be like Jesus" on a daily basis until you physically die). So in effect, even if Jesus "came down" and sacrificed his life, he hasn't saved anyone. Each person must choose to be saved. This means that theoretically if every human on the earth right now doesn't believe in Jesus or isn't trying to live a "christian life," then every human on earth right now will perish and go to Hades, or hell. Then, when Jesus returns, all those people who were in hell will be reassigned to the lake of fire where they will be tortured forever. It's all right there in Revelations for everyone to see. So Adstar, unless you are prepared to state that Revelations is incorrect or should be omitted from the bible, this is what christianity proclaims.
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Isn't the point of a forum to discuss things which we don't have "the definitive answer for"? Otherwise there would be no use for forums.
Well, at least you've provided some evidence as to the origin of violence. Ironically, you theists keep asserting it has something to do with evolution.
Q, that is nonsense.
Well i do not take offence. To me your words where directed against God. Therefore the only apology that could ever be warranted or of value would be one to the God of Abraham.
The Bible to me is the Word of God. So your anti-bible stance to me is equal with an anti-God stance. So in my opinion you have said things against God. I believe that the Book of Revelation was given to John via the Holy Spirit. So your anti-Revelation stance is an anti-God stance.
Your definition is wrong. We are born with the sinning fault built in but for a short time we exist without the knowledge of Good and Evil. The knowledge that caused Adam and Eve to become unacceptable to God in eternity. Please refer to the Words of God in the OT where God Himself makes this statement:
Deuteronomy 1:39
"Moreover your little ones and your children, who you say will be victims, who today have no knowledge of good and evil, they shall go in there; to them I will give it, and they shall possess it.
All humans who pass this age of innocence are sinners because sin is not only the doing of a sinful act but the thinking of a sinful act. Jesus revealed this in His speech commonly called the beatitudes:
Matthew 5
28 But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.
So everyone who lives beyond the age of innocence sins and therefore fall short of the perfection of God. It matters no not a jot if they sin only once or 10,000 times.
I believe it is more correct to say those that reject Jesus as their personal Savior. Those who never heard about Jesus and the gift of grace can not have rejected Jesus as their Savior now could they? What do you think this portion of scripture is revealing?
1 Peter 3
18For Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive by the Spirit, 19through whom also he went and preached to the spirits in prison 20who disobeyed long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built.
I believe a sinner is anyone who has ever sinned by deed or thought. And that includes every human being that has ever lived beyond the age of innocence.
Firstly, i have not made that assumption. It is you who has attempted to put words into my mouth. Or should i say Words into my post. Please avoid speaking for me.
Secondly, Those who believe in the Word of God and are lead by the Holy Spirit do their best to resist their carnal (sin) nature. they "fight the good fight" against themselves, to put it in another way they have got the right attitude towards sin out of the love for God and the power of the Holy Spirit to convict their consciences of their sin. So no Gace has never been a licence to sin. What grace is for is when we fall down in our fight. Grace is for the contrite ones who are repentant of their sin nature. Is is just to grant mercy upon the repentant.
Actually if you have read the Bible with the guidance of the Holy Spirit then your eyes would have been open to the fact that there are 3 resurrections mentioned in the Bible.
1. Of Jesus. In the 4 Gospels
2. Of the Saints. Revealed by Revelation Chapter 20 verse 4 - 5
Revelation 20
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
3. Of the rest of the dead. Revealed by Revelation Chapter 20
Revelation 20
7 Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison 8 and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea. 9 They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them. 10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. 14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.
Now i am referring to the Resurrection of the Saints. But i also believe there will be those resurrected after the 1000 years who will also have eternity with God.
Well did they reject Jesus? Where they given the Gospel?
Jesus came to save us from the sting of our sins. The result of our sins. What is called the second death. Jesus saved us because He is the perfect unblemished sacrifice. That all the sacrificial laws of the Jews pointed to as shadows of the future perfect sacrificial Lamb provided by God. So that no one on earth can boast that they have gained eternity with God by providing their own sacrifice or reaching a level of righteousness to buy eternity with God. See it is all Gods doing. He has revealed why we are condemned and also revealed the way in which we are reconciled to Him and are made (by His Act) justifiably acceptable to dwell with Him in eternity.
Yes effort does not imply succeeding does it?
Putting an effort into doing the Will of Jesus reveals ones agreement with the Words of Jesus. The One who puts in an effort has the right spirit irrespective of how successful they are at actually succeeding at doing the will of Jesus.
Firstly one should Believe Jesus drop the "in" and your getting closer to the mark.
John 6:63
It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life.
Secondly. You think someone needs to live a life worthy of being saved before they are saved? If a person did live a life and where worthy of eternal life with God then why would they need to be saved? Surly if a person could live a life like that then they could justify their own place in eternity and would have no need for a Savior. People who need a Savior need one because they cannot justify their place with God in eternity.
Jesus has made it possible for men to be saved by accepting His gift of salvation. Yes men must accept Him as their Messiah. And it is an easy thing to do.
theoretically close to being correct. Drop the in word that is between Believe and Jesus and understand what "trying" means. And this may seem a bit pedantic but if Jesus returned to earth today then some of the people on earth would never experience death as we know it.
That happens 1000 years after the return of the Messiah Jesus. Read Revealtion 20 again and see.
Yes it is all there in The Book of Revealtion and you have not seen it. You do not have understanding as to what the Bible reveals but you rely on the traditions of men that have strayed from the truth of the Bible. It is those traditions that you refer to as "christianity" and it is good that you have used a lower case "c" in your statement. You have not known the Messiah Jesus. You have known another jesus.
2 Corinthians 11:4
For if he who comes preaches another Jesus whom we have not preached, or if you receive a different spirit which you have not received, or a different gospel which you have not accepted—you may well put up with it!
2 Peter 2
15 They have forsaken the right way and gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Beor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness; 16 but he was rebuked for his iniquity: a dumb donkey speaking with a man’s voice restrained the madness of the prophet.
17 These are wells without water, clouds carried by a tempest, for whom is reserved the blackness of darkness forever.
18 For when they speak great swelling words of emptiness, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through lewdness, the ones who have actually escaped from those who live in error. 19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are slaves of corruption; for by whom a person is overcome, by him also he is brought into bondage. 20 For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning. 21 For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them. 22 But it has happened to them according to the true proverb: “A dog returns to his own vomit,”[e] and, “a sow, having washed, to her wallowing in the mire.”
All Praise The Ancient Of Days
What is the point of seeking something that is beyond humanity’s ability to discover? Is it not vanity to waste time on an unachievable project?
A dead end journey, a waste of time.
All Praise The Ancient Of Days
Adstar, some solid points in your last post. The verse 1 Peter 3:19 was very interesting to me. I've never seen that verse before. It states that Jesus in the form of spirit "preached to the spirits in prison which disobeyed long ago." This does coincide with the judgement of the dead who were Hades, and the second death that followed. Does this mean that the prisoners will have a second chance to repent and therefore have a chance to live with God in the second coming of Jesus? In any case, that is an insightful verse.
The fact that Revelations mentions a first resurection, does imply a second one. So I think you might have something there. I'm guessing, the "prisoners" from 1 Peter 3:19 will be resurected in the 2nd one. Does this sound accurate?
This may be way off base, but here I what I interpret your belief to be:
Because Jesus came down to earth and sacrificed himself without sinning, God can now give us grace to do his will.
My question is, why does God need Jesus in order to give man grace to do his will? I know this a question that humans probably can't answer with our limited reasoning but it is still interesting to think about.
The fact that Revelations mentions a first resurection, does imply a second one. So I think you might have something there. I'm guessing, the "prisoners" from 1 Peter 3:19 will be resurected in the 2nd one. Does this sound accurate?
This may be way off base, but here I what I interpret your belief to be:
Because Jesus came down to earth and sacrificed himself without sinning, God can now give us grace to do his will.
My question is, why does God need Jesus in order to give man grace to do his will? I know this a question that humans probably can't answer with our limited reasoning but it is still interesting to think about.
I don't think Jesus is comin back, he should because we could sure use a saviour. The idea of the 2nd coming was just to keep people interested in this new religion that was establishing itself against the already ancient religions of paganism and Judaism.
I think Jesus and God can see us fine from where they are all up there and looking down. They know what's going on and they do try to help us by sending us good people, it is the people already here that will change the world. We shouldn't be looking up above for some1 to solve our problems, punish the wicked or take the righteous away to Heaven.
I think Jesus and God can see us fine from where they are all up there and looking down. They know what's going on and they do try to help us by sending us good people, it is the people already here that will change the world. We shouldn't be looking up above for some1 to solve our problems, punish the wicked or take the righteous away to Heaven.
The Holy Spirit sent back upon all flesh, wasn't sent to bring peace...
It was sent as a Sword, to divide the wheat from the chaff, a son from father, ect....
Christians are rejocing in the power to cast out demons, to speak with toungues, slay in the Spirit, ect....
But they don't remember Jesus warning to the disciples when they rejoiced in the same.
He told them; "rejoice not for these things, but that your name is written in that Book in heaven".......
Remember one thing, ........The rain falls on the just and unjust alike.
"Upon us all, a little rain must fall"
The church world has people looking for the wrong thing, a man in a white robe appearing in the skies to call them up.....
Didn't He say He would come as a theif in the night?
The generation that sees Israel become a nation.....1946 or so....plus 40 years........what does that leave you?
That night is long spent.
How did He act towards the religious leaders at His first advent?
His words were harsh;
"Generation of vipers, how shall you excape the damnation of hell"
"Woe unto you, Scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! ..for ye are like unto whited sepulchres... (that's dead people, see?)...which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones."
The most religious people on Earth, The Jews.....looking for Him for 2000 years....missed it.
Couldn't it be possible, again the people most prepared on Earth, looking for Him for 2000 years..."The Christians"......missed it.
For all the same reasons.
He is the same yesterday, today and forever.
"By their fruits you shall know them"...and those fruits are their "teachings"
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Well the scriptures of 1 Peter 3 are past tense. Peter revealed what had already happened. While the Book of Revelation being a book of Prophecy reveals what will happen in the future. From 1 Peter 3 we see that those who had disobeyed long ago had already been given an opportunity to accept Jesus as their Redeemer. Important: Not a "second chance". This was their first chance to accept Jesus as their Redeemer.
I believe that Peter revealed that all people get an opportunity to accept Jesus as their Savior. Either during this life. Or (if they never hear the Gospel during their lifetimes) during their "deaths" (The time between their death and their resurrection, call it what you like).
So while i believe that the uninformed dead will be given an opportunity to accept Jesus as Messiah and be saved, i do not know if they will be resurrected with the saints (who believed Jesus in their lives) in the First resurrection at the time of the Messiah's return. Or if they will take part in the final resurrection. Either way they will spend eternity with God
i certainly do believe in the two resurrections separated by 1000 years. If you read Revelation Chapter 20 you will see the chronological sequence of events given in order ( The Return of Jesus is already revealed in Chapter 19 the Word of God, LORD OF LORDS KING OF KINGS) here is a link to chapter 20
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation%2020;&version=50;
I am not sure so i cannot make any solid statement. All i know if that they will be resurrected and that they will be with God in eternity. That's if they accepted Jesus when He came to them with the truth?
The grace is forgiveness for our sins. God gave us the Holy Spirit as our Helper to guide us and to move us to love others and do good works.
The Helper also lets us know when we have sinned against God. So the Holy Spirit Helps us to do His will but it does not stop us from falling down, but He sure does let us know when we have. All Praise The Ancient Of Days
I have been dwelling on this question for some time. And thought of many different ways to takle it. But i think the best way to give an answer is direct from the bible.
Hebrews 9
(The Mediator’s Death Necessary)
16 For where there is a testament, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. 17 For a testament is in force after men are dead, since it has no power at all while the testator lives. 18 Therefore not even the first covenant was dedicated without blood. 19 For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and goats, with water, scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book itself and all the people, 20 saying, “This is the blood of the covenant which God has commanded you.” 21 Then likewise he sprinkled with blood both the tabernacle and all the vessels of the ministry. 22 And according to the law almost all things are purified with blood, and without shedding of blood there is no remission.
(Greatness of Christ’s Sacrifice)
23 Therefore it was necessary that the copies of the things in the heavens should be purified with these, but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these. 24 For Christ has not entered the holy places made with hands, which are copies of the true, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us; 25 not that He should offer Himself often, as the high priest enters the Most Holy Place every year with blood of another— 26 He then would have had to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now, once at the end of the ages, He has appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself. 27 And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment, 28 so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation.
1 For the law, having a shadow of the good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with these same sacrifices, which they offer continually year by year, make those who approach perfect. 2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? For the worshipers, once purified, would have had no more consciousness of sins. 3 But in those sacrifices there is a reminder of sins every year. 4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and goats could take away sins.
(Christ’s Death Fulfills God’s Will)
5 Therefore, when He came into the world, He said:
“ Sacrifice and offering You did not desire,
But a body You have prepared for Me.
6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin
You had no pleasure.
7 Then I said, ‘Behold, I have come—
In the volume of the book it is written of Me—
To do Your will, O God.’” (Psalm 40 6-8)
8 Previously saying, “Sacrifice and offering, burnt offerings, and offerings for sin You did not desire, nor had pleasure in them ” (which are offered according to the law), 9 then He said, “Behold, I have come to do Your will, O God.” He takes away the first that He may establish the second. 10 By that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
(Christ’s Death Perfects the Sanctified)
11 And every priest stands ministering daily and offering repeatedly the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. 12 But this Man, after He had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down at the right hand of God, 13 from that time waiting till His enemies are made His footstool. 14 For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified.
15 But the Holy Spirit also witnesses to us; for after He had said before,
16 “This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says the LORD: I will put My laws into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them,” 17 then He adds, “Their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.” (Jeremiah 31:33,34) 18 Now where there is remission of these, there is no longer an offering for sin.
All Praise The Ancient Of Days
Okay, so Jesus saved us because:
1) The Mediator’s Death Necessary - Who is the Mediator? Why is the mediator's death necessary?
2) Greatness of Christ’s Sacrifice - Not a reason, a description.
3) Christ’s Death Fulfills God’s Will - Why was it God's will? Also, Jesus was God, so that would mean God was doing his own will.
4) Christ’s Death Perfects the Sanctified - ?
There's a problem with the whole "Jesus = sinless" equation. Now if a normal human lived a sinless life, that would be impressive and worthy of God giving grace to all mankind. However, Jesus had the Spirit of God. He WAS God. So obviously God cannot sin against himself. Also, the Spirit of God has a far better chance at not sinning than the Spirit of Man.
Let's look at it this way. Take two Spirits that are in heaven. Spirit A is the spirit of an Angel. Spirit J is the Spirit of Jesus. Both of these spirits will be coming down to earth in two days as babies and will live out full human lives.
Let's assume someone offered you $2 million if you could guess which Spirit would live the least sinless life. Which Spirit would you choose?
Clearly you would choose Spirit J, because the Spirit of Jesus has a 100% of living a sinless life. Spirit A on the other hand has a 78% chance of living a sinless life. The fact that Jesus lived a sinless life is not impressive is in this case.
Keep in mind, don't look at my tone as being demeaning. I'm trying to ask the tough questions here so my language is going to be sarcastic sometimes to make a point.
1) The Mediator’s Death Necessary - Who is the Mediator? Why is the mediator's death necessary?
2) Greatness of Christ’s Sacrifice - Not a reason, a description.
3) Christ’s Death Fulfills God’s Will - Why was it God's will? Also, Jesus was God, so that would mean God was doing his own will.
4) Christ’s Death Perfects the Sanctified - ?
There's a problem with the whole "Jesus = sinless" equation. Now if a normal human lived a sinless life, that would be impressive and worthy of God giving grace to all mankind. However, Jesus had the Spirit of God. He WAS God. So obviously God cannot sin against himself. Also, the Spirit of God has a far better chance at not sinning than the Spirit of Man.
Let's look at it this way. Take two Spirits that are in heaven. Spirit A is the spirit of an Angel. Spirit J is the Spirit of Jesus. Both of these spirits will be coming down to earth in two days as babies and will live out full human lives.
Let's assume someone offered you $2 million if you could guess which Spirit would live the least sinless life. Which Spirit would you choose?
Clearly you would choose Spirit J, because the Spirit of Jesus has a 100% of living a sinless life. Spirit A on the other hand has a 78% chance of living a sinless life. The fact that Jesus lived a sinless life is not impressive is in this case.
Keep in mind, don't look at my tone as being demeaning. I'm trying to ask the tough questions here so my language is going to be sarcastic sometimes to make a point.
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Nothing, its just a bronze age myth..