Adam and Eve
- Thread starter one_raven
- Start date
I'm neither being facetious nor playing at semantics at all.
Answer me this...
Stubbing your toe is unpleasant, is it not?
How is it, or the bed you stubbed yor toe on, evil?
They are simply not the same thing.
so if there not similar then from your reasoning we can conclude that, adam and eve had fore-knowledge of bad, wrong, unpleasant, etc...., but absolutely no knowledge of good, right, pleasant etc... as they would not know anything of good until that ate from the tree, of good and evil.
so their prefall existence,
that's so often been stated as one of perfection was nothing but nasty bad stuff.
when adam and eve learnt of evil they learnt of the total meaning of the word including all it's Synonyms, you cant take one part of the meaning away just so it suits your arguement, it's just make's a mockery of the whole thing, as I have done above with the word good.
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geeser,
I will get back to you.
I am doing some research that I hope will clarify things a bit.
In the mean time, please explain this reasoning...
Going further...
If a child does not know the difference between right and wrong, does he still know that it hurts when he falls down and feels nice when he gets comforted by his mother?
Does he have to understand morality to know something is pleasurable or not?
The two are very different things.
Just because they are synonyms, in certain contexts, in the English language, does not mean the terms are interchangable.
You never answered my question...
When you stub your toe on the bed, that is unpleasent, is it not?
What does that have to do with evil at all?
It wasn't the Tree of the Knowledge of Pleasent and Unpleasent, it was the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil - which is an obvious metaphor for personal morality.
But let me finish my research, and I will get back to you.
Thanks.
So do I.
I have no clue where it will take me, but I can't help thinking about this old thread.
I'm not sure why, though...
I will get back to you.
I am doing some research that I hope will clarify things a bit.
In the mean time, please explain this reasoning...
...because I have no clue how that could possibly follow from what I said.
Going further...
If a child does not know the difference between right and wrong, does he still know that it hurts when he falls down and feels nice when he gets comforted by his mother?
Does he have to understand morality to know something is pleasurable or not?
The two are very different things.
Just because they are synonyms, in certain contexts, in the English language, does not mean the terms are interchangable.
You never answered my question...
When you stub your toe on the bed, that is unpleasent, is it not?
What does that have to do with evil at all?
It wasn't the Tree of the Knowledge of Pleasent and Unpleasent, it was the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil - which is an obvious metaphor for personal morality.
But let me finish my research, and I will get back to you.
:roflmao:
Thanks.
So do I.
I have no clue where it will take me, but I can't help thinking about this old thread.
I'm not sure why, though...
What is your opinion on the matter?
The Biblical tale of Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden is based on actual events which happened nearly 200,000 years ago.
A religious belief in One God has dominated the thinking of western society for more than a thousand years, leading to considerable difficulties with the concept of flesh-and-blood ‘gods’. However, such an idea did not present any problems to the world’s first known civilisation — the Sumerians — who lived alongside these divine rulers and depicted them as human-like beings.
The Sumerian scribes and their Akkadian successors inscribed clay tablets with a wealth of information about the gods. One such text, commonly known by the name of its hero, Atra-Hasis, describes the background to the creation of man, when the gods themselves were involved in the painstaking extraction of minerals from Earth.
The Biblical Garden of Eden is not a mythological place but a real location. In order to understand what happened there, it is necessary to appreciate that the word Eden is derived from the Sumerian term E.DIN. Whilst the first syllable ‘E’ meant ‘Home’, the second syllable was an abbreviation of DIN.GIR, commonly translated as ‘the gods’. Eden or E.DIN was therefore the ‘Abode of the Gods’.
Ancient texts describe more than one abode of the gods, with the Earth being divided geographically between two rival groups, headed by the brothers Enlil and Enki respectively. Whilst the Enkiites inhabited the African continent, the Enlilites occupied Asia and particularly the fertile lands of Mesopotamia. We are thus dealing with both a western Eden and an eastern Eden.
Adam and Eve’s embarrassment at being naked, along with Biblical references to the acquisition of ‘knowledge’, clearly suggest that they were the first human pair to become sexually aware. The Old Testament suggests that this change was caused by the consumption of a ‘fruit’. This is a significant detail because, according to the scenario outlined so far, man was created by the gods as a hybrid creature, and hybrids are nearly always born sterile. The tale of sexual knowledge being granted in the Garden of Eden therefore carries a distinct ring of truth.
Why did it suddenly become necessary for him to expel them and safeguard the Tree of Life with a ‘flaming sword’? The answer is amazingly simple. Originally mankind was designed as a slave workforce which could be easily controlled, and his sterility was an essential control mechanism. However, with the granting of sexual knowledge to Adam and Eve, man acquired the means to independent reproduction. The longevity offered by the Tree of Life thus changed from an asset to a liability, creating a serious risk of an out-of-control population explosion.
The texts in the bible didn't materialize from thin air, they all have their origins and if you do your research correctly you would find the sources to these events!
A religious belief in One God has dominated the thinking of western society for more than a thousand years, leading to considerable difficulties with the concept of flesh-and-blood ‘gods’. However, such an idea did not present any problems to the world’s first known civilisation — the Sumerians — who lived alongside these divine rulers and depicted them as human-like beings.
The Sumerian scribes and their Akkadian successors inscribed clay tablets with a wealth of information about the gods. One such text, commonly known by the name of its hero, Atra-Hasis, describes the background to the creation of man, when the gods themselves were involved in the painstaking extraction of minerals from Earth.
The Biblical Garden of Eden is not a mythological place but a real location. In order to understand what happened there, it is necessary to appreciate that the word Eden is derived from the Sumerian term E.DIN. Whilst the first syllable ‘E’ meant ‘Home’, the second syllable was an abbreviation of DIN.GIR, commonly translated as ‘the gods’. Eden or E.DIN was therefore the ‘Abode of the Gods’.
Ancient texts describe more than one abode of the gods, with the Earth being divided geographically between two rival groups, headed by the brothers Enlil and Enki respectively. Whilst the Enkiites inhabited the African continent, the Enlilites occupied Asia and particularly the fertile lands of Mesopotamia. We are thus dealing with both a western Eden and an eastern Eden.
Adam and Eve’s embarrassment at being naked, along with Biblical references to the acquisition of ‘knowledge’, clearly suggest that they were the first human pair to become sexually aware. The Old Testament suggests that this change was caused by the consumption of a ‘fruit’. This is a significant detail because, according to the scenario outlined so far, man was created by the gods as a hybrid creature, and hybrids are nearly always born sterile. The tale of sexual knowledge being granted in the Garden of Eden therefore carries a distinct ring of truth.
Why did it suddenly become necessary for him to expel them and safeguard the Tree of Life with a ‘flaming sword’? The answer is amazingly simple. Originally mankind was designed as a slave workforce which could be easily controlled, and his sterility was an essential control mechanism. However, with the granting of sexual knowledge to Adam and Eve, man acquired the means to independent reproduction. The longevity offered by the Tree of Life thus changed from an asset to a liability, creating a serious risk of an out-of-control population explosion.
The texts in the bible didn't materialize from thin air, they all have their origins and if you do your research correctly you would find the sources to these events!
Oh come on, that's bullshit, even monkeys are sexually aware in their orgies!
p.s. Imo, Adam and Eve legend has no factual basis whatsoever, it's a myth with all the attributes of a myth.
The ancient astronaut hypothesis by Van Daniken et.al. is a miserable attempt at explaining poetry as prose.
if it was the Tree of the Knowledge of Benevolent and Evil, I could understand your arguement.
because Benevolent and Pleasant/Good are not necessarily synonyms.
Benevolent assumes Compassion.
it was the tree of Good and Evil, so if Evil is not the same as Bad. and A&E could not have known Evil before they ate, they therefore could not have known Good also.
however when your talking about something as important to the xian as this, you have to use the whole meaning else it becomes farcical.
for instance, Plato, believed that evil was a deficiency of judgment resulting in ignorance.
Do many of us not have this problem in regards to food? We know we should eat less but we choose to eat more because it feels good. This is an evil in respect to our own bodies, in so much as overeating can kill you and create a host of other medical problems. What is smoking but a short term pleasant, with long term unpleasent/evil results?
The problem with these type of definitions are that they come with a lot of baggage. If you try to tell someone that there choices might be “evil”, they look at you as if you are telling them that they might be red with horns. They can’t seem to get beyond the notion of evil as something allied with the murderers and not necessarily really evil. evil is simply the absence of something good.
so in this case you do have to use the whole meaning.
nothing, but we must refer to the whole meaning.
and it wasn't the Tree of the Knowledge of Benevolent and Evil.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Original_sin
I think I know where Raven is going with this. What of the serpent in the Garden who persuaded Eve to eat from the tree? What would be the metaphor for such a creature? The Devil on her shoulder...possibly?
I think I know where Raven is going with this. What of the serpent in the Garden who persuaded Eve to eat from the tree? What would be the metaphor for such a creature? The Devil on her shoulder...possibly?
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Bowser;1363723 What would be the metaphor for such a creature? The Devil on her shoulder...possibly?[/QUOTE said:
Raven,
Maybe you are working this concept: Spiritual Death
Maybe you are working this concept: Spiritual Death
"Tilling the soil" and "The Garden..." They were not nomads.
*************
M*W: Please re-read my post. I did not claim that Adam and Eve were nomads, what I said was ancient nomads created the myths of A&E and the GoE. The zodiac (12 constellations) represented the GoE.
I'm glad ONE of us does, because I don't know where I'm going.
Maybe you can tell me.
I was wondering about that too.
It wouldn't be the "Devil", as what they did was not wrong...
If this was an act of grasping self determination, the what would have convinced her to do so?
What would have convinced the first men to leave their trees and safe river to explore the desert?
What drives man to constantly push, strive, learn and explore?
I don't know.
What do you think?
MW,
I just don't see a similarity between the two forms of people's. The story of Adam and Eve suggests evidence of an agrarian birth--if I am to look at it as originating from oral accounts,
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?r=2&q=agrarian
Nomadic life does not figure into the story. My stretch of such would be to suggest a reason for a nomadic lifestyle--banned from the garden.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/nomads
As Raven said, how can we be certain of such things?
I just don't see a similarity between the two forms of people's. The story of Adam and Eve suggests evidence of an agrarian birth--if I am to look at it as originating from oral accounts,
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?r=2&q=agrarian
Nomadic life does not figure into the story. My stretch of such would be to suggest a reason for a nomadic lifestyle--banned from the garden.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/nomads
As Raven said, how can we be certain of such things?
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I don't believe the story is a lesson in that sense, but keep thinking on it. I will keep reading. I am expecting something sensational though.
I really hadn't thought about that.
Would the development of mankind have gone from arboreal to exploring the boundaries to nomadic to agrarian to city building?
Or would they have been an agrarian people in their habitat before they decided to venture into the unknown?
If man developed in a riparian zone (which he likely did) would population growth causing the lack of food force them to migrate through the desert and seek new pastures, or would it cause him to learn about cultivating the plants in the area?
Or, was there never a lack of food to begin with, and did they have time to simply foster and nurture the growth of the plants that they preferred to eat, and that stability give them the courage and strength to explore and start venturing in the unknown, knowing there was a stable home to return to?
Is it not human nature to explore and learn?
So why did they leave the river?
Was it necessity or curiosity?