Remarks on an interesting sequence of posts
Dwayne D.L. Rabon: I would recommend to any man that he should ask what every female he is dating if she has had abortion, as it may exist as a threat to any child he might want to have, also that it is better for a male to find a women that has not had a abortion, women who have not had a abortion are better the better pick.
Lucifers Angel: yeah ok, and when do you drop that into the conversation, i can see the conversation now ....
.... dont you think that some women need to keep it to themselves, if men walk away from women who have had abortions then the women is being victimised twice, great idea!
Asguard: LA not everyone would act that way. Your being rather harsh and sexist right there
To work backwards, I think ....
I'm not sure it's
sexist, per se, Asguard. I don't see a certain degree of generalization in large part because she's responding to a bit of a generalization. Or perhaps I'm taking you wrongly: you don't think "everyone" would act that way? Well, what everyone are we talking about here? The "everyone" that is truly all-encompassing? Well, that transcends the boundaries of LA's response. The "everyone" that would screen women on the basis of abortions? Well, I suppose you have a point, but inquiring about salad is probably the better route for that type of man to take at that point. I'm probably missing something, but for the moment it seems the potential responses only go downhill from there. I mean, what line would you write there? I'm having trouble coming up with a good one.
To the other, LA, I would propose that you might be looking at it wrongly. Sure, the insult might sting at first, but it seems to me she's better off without such a man. Furthermore, if we take our neighbor Dwayne as an example—
Dwayne D.L. Rabon said:
I would say that women in industrialized society don't give birth as frequenlty or as much as they should, that a social trend exist that influences women to believe that giveing birth is bad makeing abortion seem favorable, in this trend has lead to a decrease in stature of females of industrialzied nations and has increased the inbreeding rate of industrialized nations. So in end it becomes clear that women need to give birth more frequently, haveing a social medium where abortion is prevalient as a practice would work against the enviroment where females give more birth. Understanding female biological maturity and pregancy they go hand in hand and so to the intellctual women and the instinctual it appears natural, however in social trend society it appears unfavorable, and the intellctual women is usally to old to operate only the females existing in natural enviroment maintain the regular birth rate the insures the stature of the population.
—I would go so far as to suggest that the earlier she finds out, the better.
Obviously, it is a woman's business, and if a relationship is founded on a state of love and trust, that information will come up in due course, and it will be received and regarded properly. The flip-side is that if the woman only finds out how deeply judgmental her partner is after she marries him, the victimization becomes incalculable. Not only will he have kept something from her in order to get close to her, but that dishonesty will denigrate her constantly throughout the relationship.
If a man really feels that way, he ought to drop it into the conversation before the appetizer arrives. Best a woman stays clear of a man who looks at her as a meat factory.
Which brings me to confess that I really am puzzled by Mr. Rabon's outlook.
Increased the inbreeding rate of industrialized nations? I'm sorry, but
what? I mean, seriously, man:
What?
Additionally, while there is some sentiment against childbirth, I think you're overstating it somewhat. There certainly are some women who don't want to put their bodies through pregnancy and childbirth. And, frankly, it's difficult to take issue with that. But the most part of the social trend against childbirth that I'm aware of is actually about the
number of children people have. Sustaining the population equals one child per parent. A theoretical married couple that never gets divorced and never remarries maintains the population by having two children, one to replace each parent. Having only one child (or zero children) theoretically reduces the population. There are some who would argue the human species would do better with a lower population, and numbers float between 3.5 to 5 billion, depending on who you ask. This is an issue about resource and environmental sustainability. And that's all well and fine, and it's academic theory. But even so, I really do find it absurd that some people have so many children as they do. Some of them just make decisions I don't agree with; because adoption is an unacceptable idea to them, they decide to try fertility drugs and end up with eight children. Even stranger to me are people who have their eight children one at a time. Think about that for a moment: three hundred twenty weeks of pregnancy; that's over six years.
Ten years of infants around the house. That is a very difficult proposition.
What's that? A more reasonable number? What, four? Five? If that's what a woman wants to do, that's her decision. I personally find it socially irresponsible. And something that really confuses me is the connection between religion and rampant reproduction. I've heard half-assed explanations for Catholics and no useful explanations for Latter-Day Saints.
Given that a woman's obligations to parenthood remain greater than the man's even beyond pregnancy and childbirth, I would suggest that your argument that women should be having more children, in addition to being detrimental to the species, is at its root misogynistic°. As Susanne Pichler wrote:
The right to make childbearing decisions has also enabled women to pursue educational and employment opportunities that were often unthinkable before Roe. The Supreme Court noted in 1992 that "the ability of women to participate equally in the economic and social life of the Nation has been facilitated by their ability to control their reproductive lives."
(
Pichler and Golub)
Indeed, as she pointed out, Justice Blackmun, who authored the Court's opinion in
Roe, noted that the decision was "a step that had to be taken as we go down the road toward the full emancipation of women". The right to make childbearing decisions has
improved women's quality of life in our society. And bearing in mind the slogan, "Every child a wanted child", we should remember that this improved quality of life also makes her capable of delivering better care to any children she does have.
But you, apparently, would take all of that away in order to protect against a truly bizarre, superstitious concern: an increased inbreeding rate in industrialized nations.
Especially in the rapidly-globalizing world community, increased inbreeding rates in industrialized nations would suggest more about people's criteria for lovers and spouses than anything else.
In an
earlier post, I suggested that "one of the things that needs to be addressed is whether or not men should be obliged to carry around signed affidavits attesting that they will support any child they help conceive". Originally, I made the suggestion simply to make the point about a man's responsibility in creating a child at a time when I felt some people were focusing too much on the woman's role. You've given me yet another reason to consider the notion.
In the meantime, perhaps someday you will come to understand that love is a far more powerful thing than picking women like you're shopping for a car. Until then, you really are missing out. Seriously, there is a state of love and trust between people that I would do damn near anything for. And it seems you don't want it at all.
People are more than machines, else all our struggles are for naught. Even this one. After all, what's one aborted machine, more or less?
____________________
Notes:
° misogynistic — I suppose I should consider the possibility that such an outlook is not specifically misogynistic. One could, theoretically, hold the whole of the human species in such low esteem. Of course, in the abortion debate, we so rarely address anything remotely related to the role of the male in the human endeavor that we should not be surprised that people see misogyny afoot.
Works Cited:
Pichler, Susanne and Deborah Golub. "Roe v. Wade: Its History and Impact". PlannedParenthood.org. Updated May 16, 2007. See http://www.plannedparenthood.org/newsroom/press-releases/roe-v-wade-6578.htm