Abortion

[Lori_7]

lori: does this mean that it is impossible for someone male to know how they feel about abortion?

Just because the child is inside the woman's womb doesn't mean that it's not just as much the man's child or responsibility. She didn't make it and put it there herself. The man is the father...and the man is just as responsible, if not more.

When I spoke of having an abortion I wasn't referring to the procedure so much...I should have said "until you have a baby who was aborted", or "until you are responisble for an abortion". I mean, I refer to a man as "having a baby", though the mother is actually the one giving birth. I would also refer to a man as "having an abortion", even though the mother is the one experiencing the procedure.

I'm sure that a man would get a different perspective of the experience, not having to lay on the table while your baby is sucked out of you by some womb vacuum, chopped into pieces, and disposed of. But I think that ultimately, the man is held just as accountable as the woman if not moreso. Circumstances vary, and sometimes things, especially according to the law, are out of a man's control...well, when it gets to that point anyway. Because, of course, a man could always just keep his dick in his pants until he's ready to be a father. But the father of my aborted baby didn't know until after the fact.

 

[Lori_7]

I knoew how I really feel, now.
For the first, last, and eternally final fuckin' time: It's the woman's child, it's the woman's choice. She is carrying it, she decides the fate.

Pussy.

 

[Lori_7]

this is unfortunate. the entirety of your life is politics. understanding this is a first step into success at any given endeavour.

Speak for yourself. My life is the real deal. Fuck the campaign...no lies, no games, no more. The buck stops here.

 

[Cottontop3000]

Abortion is not murder. Abortion is compassion. If you disagree, I couldn't care less.

 

[water]

So many abortion debates are pointless, and it is for one reason: they focus on the wrong thing.

Some people seem to be forgetting that it is SEX that leads to pregnancy, and it is pregnancy that can end in abortion.

The abortion debate should be focusing on sex, and not on the fetus.

So many people basically believe that we are ENTITLED to consequence-free sex; that is, that we are entitled to having sex and not conceiving.
But we have no such right, this universe does not work that way.

In this universe, particular actions have particular consequences. We may affect the course of the consequences a bit, but we cannot change it. We cannot 100% prevent conception.


So the questions are:
Why do people have sex when they don't want to have children (and thus a child conceived in such sexual relations will be aborted)?
Is such sex justified?
Is sex for the sake of sex justified?
Is abortion an acceptable price to pay for the sexual pleasure?

 

[water]

Abortion is not murder. Abortion is compassion.

Compassion for WHOM? The woman?

If you disagree, I couldn't care less.

And you would say that your pregnant girlfriend, expecting her to have an aobrtion?

 

[Cottontop3000]

Some people seem to be forgetting that it is SEX that leads to pregnancy, and it is pregnancy that can end in abortion.

What leads to SEX? Humanity.

The abortion debate should be focusing on sex, and not on the fetus.

Focus: Humanity. Not sex.

So many people basically believe that we are ENTITLED to consequence-free sex;

Who's to say we are not? You?

that is, that we are entitled to having sex and not conceiving.

Only religious nuts are holding us back.

But we have no such right, this universe does not work that way.

Your universe? Or mine?

In this universe, particular actions have particular consequences.

According to you?

We may affect the course of the consequences a bit, but we cannot change it. We cannot 100% prevent conception.

Like hell we can't.

So the questions are:
Why do people have sex when they don't want to have children (and thus a child conceived in such sexual relations will be aborted)?

Humanity?

Is such sex justified?

Not in your universe, obviously.

Is sex for the sake of sex justified?

In my universe, who the fuck cares?!

Is abortion an acceptable price to pay for the sexual pleasure?

Fuck yes. I wish I had been aborted. I wish I had not been born with such "immaculate" intelligence, and thus been subjected to a life with moronic fucks.

 

[Cottontop3000]

Compassion for WHOM? The woman?

For the fucking aborted fetus! Are you that deluded?

And you would say that your pregnant girlfriend, expecting her to have an aobrtion?

Whatever floats her god-damned boat.

 

[okinrus]

I think the real issue is when dose the child become sentient and I think the real answers is we don’t know. We have done a lot of research on the topic but what it comes down to is that we don’t know how to define our own conscious self so we can’t define what it should represent in others.

Lacking proof for either side it becomes a moral decision for the individual and one that I at least feel nobody has a right to infringe on. If you think there is such a thing as a soul and that a child has one from the moment of conception then don’t get an abortion. Other people, though, don’t agree and it would be rather intolerant to force them to follow decisions based on an unproven opinion.

Sabian_bel, assuming we have no way to tell if the unborn child is sentient and sentiency is the measure of our worth, why would us not knowing make us leave the decision to the individual. Take for instance the army. They don't use an area for target practices unless if they can be certain no one lives there. If they're unable to do so, they simply won't use such an area.

Lacking proof for either side it becomes a moral decision for the individual and one that I at least feel nobody has a right to infringe on. If you think there is such a thing as a soul and that a child has one from the moment of conception then don’t get an abortion. Other people, though, don’t agree and it would be rather intolerant to force them to follow decisions based on an unproven opinion.

Well, it's like saying I don't believe Jews have a soul but you do. And therefore, I will kill as many Jews as I want, and you, confident in them having a soul, won't stop me. .

 

[Hapsburg]

Compassion for WHOM? The woman?

The Fetus.
Look at it this way: A kid is born in horrible surroundings. The kid slowly starves because the parent(s), though loving, can not afford food. The child dies or a disease from a weakened body, and weakened immune system, slowly, painfully, horribly.
Do you want a child to suffer such a fate?
No? Then take care of it before it becomes an actual human, while it's still in the embryo stage. Abort it.

 

[Prince_James]

Hapsburg:

So what? Even if it were murder, I see nothing wrong with it.
There are far too many humans on this planet, anyway. Spawning any more would be a crime against humanity...

Murder is unlawful, hence, abortion is wrong. That is my only point. MOreover, eugenics is a far better way to deal with over population whilst getting something out of it, rather then simply murdering children indiscriminately.

Lori_7:

If you're a Christian, according to your own doctrine, the spirit of an aborted baby would go straight back up to heaven. While the probability occurs (as the path is narrow), that if the child had been born, they would have not received Christ and become born again, and so upon death would then go to hell. Sooooo what does that mean exactly?

Actually, Christians (non-Catholics and perhaps Orthodox) claim that aborted babies go to Hell.

Sabian_bel:

The key part there is “as mentioned above” you are passing an opinion off as the scientific definition of humanity. I will agree that one aspect of humanity, and all life, is that we are unique, but I don’t see how it has any bearing on being alive.

An opinion? Try science. The genetic evidence and the fact that only that which is alive can grow is rooted in scientific fact. Unscientific bias is unworthy of being considered as anything remotely valid, and thus a definition not in accords with what science declares to be right, is simply, completely, and absolutely, wrong.

 

[c7ityi_]

sometimes abortion is wrong.

 

[(Q)]

we are entitled to having sex and not conceiving. But we have no such right, this universe does not work that way.

By whose authority, yours?

Why do people have sex when they don't want to have children

Obvioulsy, you've never had sex, if you did, you wouldn't be asking that question.

 

[Prince_James]

c7ityi_:

No, abortion is always wrong, as it is murder. There is no excuse for what is conceived as murder under the law of most societies throughout history.

 

[KennyJC]

Well, I like sex, but don't want a baby and never will. Yet the pope tells me I cant wear a condom. So either I don't have sex, or I don't commit the sin of using contraception. Then what if there is a pregnancy, I have been good to God by not making him cry tears all over his nice white gown by wearing a condom, but now I have a baby I don't want.

Or if I take the option of never having sex to please God... Sorry, but I'm having sex, and I'm using contraception, and if it fails and she goes pregnant, she better abort or I'm outta there.

Is anyone here against abortion who isn't a religious retard?

 

[SnakeLord]

In my opinion, having an abortion is the most hideous and heinous thing I've ever done. And the same people who abhor and condemn the Christian God of the OT for his violence and judgement are pro-abortion...hypocrits.

Well I think you're all as bad as each other. There ya go, I'm not a hypocrite. I condemn your god for being the fuckhead the bible makes him out to be, and condemn you for, (kinda -though you're only a woman so pretty meaningless), being made in his image and acting just like he would.

It reminds me of you believers that have an issue with Hitler and claim him evil for killing some jews, when the very god you claim to love has killed 100 times as many jews and nobody even bats a fucking eyelid. That's hypocricy Lori.

 

[SnakeLord]

Is anyone here against abortion who isn't a religious retard?

Yeah.

Even if it were, what's wrong with killing people? There's too many humans upon this wretched planet as it is.

So.. what gives you more right to life? From what I can tell, you're just a kid with a bad attitude and little else. What have you done that makes you have more rights than someone who is not yet big enough to talk for himself? If there's too many humans I can think of millions worth killing - and not one of those is an unborn child.

 

[c7ityi_]

No, abortion is always wrong, as it is murder.

It's subjective and dependent circumstances. Ex: some people think it's ok to kill animals and eat them, so to them, it is ok, but there are others who feel bad about it, so to them, it would be wrong.

Many women think it's ok to make an abort, for example, if she had a baby by mistake or if she was raped.

 

[beyondtimeandspace]

Justice demands equal exchange of goods produced. You get what you earn, you take what rightfully belongs to you by virtue of the effort you put out. It is a crime against justice to take that which you have no right to take, even if you take it with the best intentions.

 

[Hapsburg]

Murder is unlawful, hence, abortion is wrong. That is my only point

YOUR laws and YOUR morals say that murder is wrong. Do not assume that all think it is a wrong, and don't assume that I care about the law.
Fuck the Po-lice. Fuck the Po-lice.