Abortion= WRONG
- Thread starter cma
- Start date
That's another question I have. Why? But I guess they wanted to differ from Jews in more ways. Actually, I think it was either not healthy to eat pork in Israel's climate, or not profitable because pigs ate too much. Point being, there was some practical reason why Jews didn't eat pork that apparently wasn't relevant for Christians.
I agree. Pork in a desert's just begging for trichonosis. But the sexual hysteria evident in Deuteronomy, like the wandering for forty years thing, had a practical purpose as well. When you're a technologically primitive people, trying to forcibly evict another technologically primitive people from your "Promised Land," sheer numbers are a major advantage. Also, I believe the Hebrews had a primitive concept of reproduction, believing that women basically incubated the guy's sperm, without providing any genetic material of their own. If you'll notice the verse condemning homosexuality as an abomination refers to men with men. Nothin' about women. 'Course, it could just be that Moses was down for some hot Jewess-on-Jewess action.
hehe, "abortion= WRONG"
i assumed this thread had been started by PM, apparently not
btw
is contraception evil?
is abstaining from sex evil?
both of those deprive a human being of life, why are you out there having sex right now you selfish person!!!
i assumed this thread had been started by PM, apparently not
btw
is contraception evil?
is abstaining from sex evil?
both of those deprive a human being of life, why are you out there having sex right now you selfish person!!!
I think your beginning this argument wrong, cma. A fetus is not just a potential human being but a human being who has the potential to develop into a normal functioning human being.
Correct.
I think this is true. If everybody who believed in the existence of the soul was against abortion, this wouldn't even be an issue.
Its the woman`s right to decide for herself. No lunatic religious fundy should have any say in her private matters.Its not a human being, its a collection of cells. UK law states that until the umbilical cord is cut, it is not independent life. An ex -girlfriend of mine had to suffer the rants of some of these bastards when she unfortunatly found herself pregnant.Poor girl ,in turmoil because of her unwanted pregnancy having a bunch of religious nutters harping on at her.If i was with her at the time i would of stabbed a few.Bastards all of them and their supporters.
Its a womans right to choose, though if she doesnt want the baby and the man does she should give it away to him and have nothing more to do with it, likewise if she wishes to keep it against the mans wishes she should expect anything from him and should have to deal with it on her own, you cant force somebody into being a parent but you cant take it away from them either. Of couse prevention is the best method and im not aware of anyone that uses abortions in the way thats been stated most people prevent things first and the option of an abortion is there if needed.
And you believe you are a collection of cells as well, correct?
If you wish to get technical the baby doesnt even eat on its own it drains the mothers energy, its like being on life support for 9 months and without life support(the mother) it would die, like many people in hospital, do you propose keeping all life support systems on for 9 months or indefinately incase the person starts to breathe on their own again? Is turning it off murder?
And you believe you are a collection of cells as well, correct?
If you wish to get technical the baby doesnt even eat on its own it drains the mothers energy, its like being on life support for 9 months and without life support(the mother) it would die, like many people in hospital, do you propose keeping all life support systems on for 9 months or indefinately incase the person starts to breathe on their own again? Is turning it off murder?
Fraggle Rocker
Staff member
Oh shit. Once again, a bunch of (mostly) men, pontificating about a decision they'll never have to make.
Once again, I quote my wife (except that I've toned down the language for your sensitive eyes): "I'll give a flying fuck about what men think about abortion, the first time one of you assholes gets PREGNANT!"
You say you really care about children, that this is an an issue that concerns you, you're just all tied up in knots about the plight of the little motherfuckers?
Well then go out and do something to PROVE IT! Join the Big Brothers. Become a mentor. Become a teacher. Join one of the groups that tracks down and hounds men who abuse their children, abandon their children, or don't make their child support payments.
A warrior is a person who defends those who can't defend themselves. The world respects a warrior. But a warrior goes out and does things, he puts his life on the line for what he believes in. He stops men from hitting their children even though he might get hit himself. He stops women from screaming at their children even though our twisted laws might get him put in jail for assaulting her. He rats on men who get paid under the table to avoid being garnished for child support, even though he might run afoul of the local gangsters. He doesn't sit at home writing on his computer about something that for him can never be much more than a philosophical abstraction.
Hey, to the guy who occasionally shows up and bitches that his wife had an abortion and he was really torn up about it: Okay, you get half credit. I just wonder how supportive you would have been if she'd had the goddamned baby and it had made HER life miserable. Would you be out somewhere playing poker and telling all your buddies what a bitch your wife is?
Every woman I've ever met -- EVERY DAMN ONE OF THEM AND THAT'S A WHOLE BUNCH -- who decided to complete a pregnancy she was ambivalent about after being influenced by a man who insisted that it was "the right thing to do" -- is SINGLE!
Once again, I quote my wife (except that I've toned down the language for your sensitive eyes): "I'll give a flying fuck about what men think about abortion, the first time one of you assholes gets PREGNANT!"
You say you really care about children, that this is an an issue that concerns you, you're just all tied up in knots about the plight of the little motherfuckers?
Well then go out and do something to PROVE IT! Join the Big Brothers. Become a mentor. Become a teacher. Join one of the groups that tracks down and hounds men who abuse their children, abandon their children, or don't make their child support payments.
A warrior is a person who defends those who can't defend themselves. The world respects a warrior. But a warrior goes out and does things, he puts his life on the line for what he believes in. He stops men from hitting their children even though he might get hit himself. He stops women from screaming at their children even though our twisted laws might get him put in jail for assaulting her. He rats on men who get paid under the table to avoid being garnished for child support, even though he might run afoul of the local gangsters. He doesn't sit at home writing on his computer about something that for him can never be much more than a philosophical abstraction.
Hey, to the guy who occasionally shows up and bitches that his wife had an abortion and he was really torn up about it: Okay, you get half credit. I just wonder how supportive you would have been if she'd had the goddamned baby and it had made HER life miserable. Would you be out somewhere playing poker and telling all your buddies what a bitch your wife is?
Every woman I've ever met -- EVERY DAMN ONE OF THEM AND THAT'S A WHOLE BUNCH -- who decided to complete a pregnancy she was ambivalent about after being influenced by a man who insisted that it was "the right thing to do" -- is SINGLE!
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We were all once fetuses. Considering that, we should all have a personal stake in this just as much as a mother who kills two year-old babies. Sure, we won't ever be a mother who kills her own but we can give a definite answer this is wrong.
We're not debating whose morally superior but whether abortion is wrong. Anyway, I do not have to prove to anyone my love of children but to God. I do not consider my self superior to a women who has an abortion.
Yes at the end of the day we are all just a collection of cells. Some of us make it against all the odds and enjoy life. Some don`t . But its still the womans right to choose whats best for her. I work in an operating theatre and see terminations all the time. So i can say with confidence that it is just a bunch of cells,that has the capacity to evolve into a human being. But law states that it is not a sentient being until the umbilcus is cut. So thats my position on the subject really. If life is so sacred to all these religious nutters outside abortion clinics, why did some of them get convicted for murder of a doctor a while back?
Yes that is just plain wrong. If she'd been told beforehand the man doesnt want it and she keeps it he is not respnsible for her decision to ruin her life, why should it ruin his to?(i dont mean to imply it ruins everyones life who keeps a kid just if you dont want it), this would also stop entrapment, but if he(or she under my opinion) waivers the responsibility of the kid they waiver any rights aswel.
so cma = okinrus, right?
it takes two to tango. if he was in that bed, he has responsibility to that child for life. if he doesn't want that responsibility why hasn't he had a vesectomy yet?
it takes two to tango. if he was in that bed, he has responsibility to that child for life. if he doesn't want that responsibility why hasn't he had a vesectomy yet?
I was suggesting it was an 'accident' and he didnt want the kid, if he gives up the responsibility he gives up the rights that go with it, i consider that fair, if they are trying for a baby then why would he leave in the first place?
How about the reverse, he wants to keep the kid she doesnt, after all:
it takes two to tango. if she was in that bed, she has responsibility to that child for life. if she doesn't want that responsibility then why doesnt she have a historectomy?
okinrus: "I do not have to prove to anyone my love of children but to God."
In my eyes "God" is a word that is open to interpretation. I prefer to use "all" which means if your concept of god is something that is other-worldy or supernatural or any other depiction as not including your fellow humans and the rest of the life that sustains your environmental systems, then that is an excuse to sin. I see a lot of those who claim themselves as "anti-abortion" to profess afilliation with one of the various sects of Christianity. Their anti-abortion stance is wrong as it is blanket and abortions happen naturally and for healthy reasons. Humans and other animals would not sustain this option if it hadn't of been a survival process for the species more than the individual and still serves as such. With the new stresses and strains that us humans should recognize include our impact on the environment, we should be able to facilitate abortions despite its natural occurence to promote survival of the species and sustainable human liberty.
Seems to me, a lot of people who profess Christian affiliation do so more from a stand point of joining a power block to protect their wanton use of resources and the ignorance that allows them to avoid the responsibility to become joint stewards of the planet. Their claim to self-righteous truth in the matter of abortions serves largely as obfuscation from the fact of their general sociopathos. Sorry, okinrus, but those who invoke "God" as a base judgement platform appear to usually be more a part of the problem than any solution. Since I understand religious terms to be nonliteral, I do believe that the Christian "God" has more features of satanism than reality.
In my eyes "God" is a word that is open to interpretation. I prefer to use "all" which means if your concept of god is something that is other-worldy or supernatural or any other depiction as not including your fellow humans and the rest of the life that sustains your environmental systems, then that is an excuse to sin. I see a lot of those who claim themselves as "anti-abortion" to profess afilliation with one of the various sects of Christianity. Their anti-abortion stance is wrong as it is blanket and abortions happen naturally and for healthy reasons. Humans and other animals would not sustain this option if it hadn't of been a survival process for the species more than the individual and still serves as such. With the new stresses and strains that us humans should recognize include our impact on the environment, we should be able to facilitate abortions despite its natural occurence to promote survival of the species and sustainable human liberty.
Seems to me, a lot of people who profess Christian affiliation do so more from a stand point of joining a power block to protect their wanton use of resources and the ignorance that allows them to avoid the responsibility to become joint stewards of the planet. Their claim to self-righteous truth in the matter of abortions serves largely as obfuscation from the fact of their general sociopathos. Sorry, okinrus, but those who invoke "God" as a base judgement platform appear to usually be more a part of the problem than any solution. Since I understand religious terms to be nonliteral, I do believe that the Christian "God" has more features of satanism than reality.
My point, Mr. Chips, was that I certainly do not have to prove my "righteousness" to call abortion for what is. Unless if your also willing to prove to me how righteous you are over the Internet, which is practically impossible, I see this as just an attempt to divert the issue. If I must prove I'm righteous to state a moral fact, then you, who state the opposite, must also do the same.
I'm only trying to be fair minded here. The claim that anti-abortionist are self-righteous religious fanatics can also be said of the abortionists, provided they actually believe they are right. And as you amply said, Satan is whoever he wants to appear to be.
I'm only trying to be fair minded here. The claim that anti-abortionist are self-righteous religious fanatics can also be said of the abortionists, provided they actually believe they are right. And as you amply said, Satan is whoever he wants to appear to be.
yeah i'm always pretty iffy about religious people who claim they are morally superior on a religious basis. i know people who follow all the rules to the letter and i think they're terribly immoral. do you kill anything or steal it's milk or eggs? do you support gross violations of human rights through consumerism? do you destroy the earth by your mere presense and not care? do you look the other way and allow politicians run your country without morals? do you pretend not to see the hungry/needy/abused?
my list of commandments is different than the ones i learned in sunday (saturday at my church actually) school. your morals don't mean anything to me. in my eyes, you're a pig. if i were to believe in a god, in my god's eyes you are also a pig. oink baby!
my list of commandments is different than the ones i learned in sunday (saturday at my church actually) school. your morals don't mean anything to me. in my eyes, you're a pig. if i were to believe in a god, in my god's eyes you are also a pig. oink baby!