Abortion and Suicide laws

[Asguard]

Um...I was afraid if you figured out major trauma takes about five minutes to do more than sting really hard...
Well, that and that nasty grating feeling bone ends make....but it takes a bit for you to feel it.

maybe, maybe not, depends on the trauma, the releace of adrenilin, the concious state of the pt and a heep of other factors.

for instance someone who is blown up but who only gets superfical to partial thickness burns but to a large percentage of there body (thats concidered major trauma especially if the burns are to the face) will be in HUGE amounts of pain quickly and the pain wont deminish unless major shock sets in (or you give analgisics), cuts on the other hand i belive tend to depend on how they are caused, the sharper the instriment the longer pain free, spinal injuries tend not to hurt at all (unfortunatly, pain is good in those cirumstances)

Pain responces tend to be personal, all this is rather achademic though because i have never come across any victoms of trauma where they WERNT in pain imidiatly (and i volenteer at BMX so im there when it happens, not just ariving latter with the ambulance service)

 

[chimpkin]

Pain responces tend to be personal,

True that...

Back to the OP topic...what would be the social consequences of permitting assisted suicide for everyone on demand?

Just thought I'd throw it out there.

 

[wynn]

exactly..when it all boils out it comes down to selfishness..you care more about your own problems than you do about others.

And what is wrong with that??

One would be stupid to care more about other people's problems than one's own.

If anything, some people are suicidal because they in fact care about other people's problems more than their own.

 

[KilljoyKlown]

Back to the OP topic...what would be the social consequences of permitting assisted suicide for everyone on demand?

Who said anything like that? People usually don't want to die until they know without a doubt that their lives are not worth living anymore and they aren't going to be getting any better. Sure there might be a few exceptions, but damn if we can't tell the difference by now, how stupid are we?

 

[kx000]

Life can always get better. If you cant make your own life better make someone else life better.

 

[KilljoyKlown]

Life can always get better. If you cant make your own life better make someone else life better.

So every year millions of people should have to needlessly suffer because of some fantasy notion you have that life can always get better. Sorry I don't believe in miracles and if your life isn't worth living how do you expect to make someone else's better? I'll bet you wouldn't even treat your dog that badly.

 

[NMSquirrel]

One would be stupid to care more about other people's problems than one's own.

In a Perfect World....rolleyes
if we were each focused on taking care of someone else's problems, our problems would be on the attention of another..

If anything, some people are suicidal because they in fact care about other people's problems more than their own.

this is not a perfect world..those ppl should be treated as a national resource..

 

[chimpkin]

KilljoyKlown:
People usually don't want to die until they know without a doubt that their lives are not worth living anymore and they aren't going to be getting any better.

Umm...
I don't feel like dying...today...
I was kind of taking the OP and running with it...

Knowledge91:
Life can always get better.

Maybe.
Can always get worse too...I have thought several times since November of last year "Oh, this has got to be the worst of it, I'm going to start climbing..."
Then it got worse.
Then the PTSD flashbacks started happening...
In the saner moments I know I'll get better...when is a good question, and whether I'll still be married and employed and housed...

 

[NMSquirrel]

In the saner moments I know I'll get better...when is a good question,

when you are better do you feel guilty about feeling good?

IOW how much of that cycle do we do to ourselves?

 

[chimpkin]

when you are better do you feel guilty about feeling good?

Less these days. Able to actually be nice to myself at times without feeling what my mom always called me, "Selfish little brat!"
I actively get pleasure, as well as a sense of some value, in being kind and useful to others...and when I'm in agony it's next to impossible to do that.
So for practical reasons, it is best to be not in pain. I don't have to be happy, but if I'm internally preoccupied, I'm not of much help.
Self-care then becomes a practical good thing.

IOW how much of that cycle do we do to ourselves?

Haven't quite ironed that out yet. Some. Not all...and since mine includes PTSD, at this point it's not just depression ... the first trip through PTSD Bat Country I was raging for years...now the dominant theme seems to be sorrow. Panic attacks and alienation are just perennial.

It seems if I go on and have the flashback the depression lifts for a little...I just don't always realize that's what needs to occur...or that the emotions I'm feeling are canned ones from 30 years ago. I feel worthless, disgusting, contaminated, horribly abandoned and want to die right now.

The holding myself, rocking and wailing thing really does help...

 

[wynn]

In a Perfect World....
if we were each focused on taking care of someone else's problems, our problems would be on the attention of another..

Why not take care of one's own problems?



The Blessed One said, "Once upon a time, monks, a bamboo acrobat, having erected a bamboo pole, addressed his assistant, Frying Pan: 'Come, my dear Frying Pan. Climb up the bamboo pole and stand on my shoulders.'

"'As you say, Master,' Frying Pan answered the bamboo acrobat and, climbing the bamboo pole, stood on his shoulders.

"So then the bamboo acrobat said to his assistant, 'Now you watch after me, my dear Frying Pan, and I'll watch after you. Thus, protecting one another, watching after one another, we'll show off our skill, receive our reward, and come down safely from the bamboo pole.'

"When he had said this, Frying Pan said to him, 'But that won't do at all, Master. You watch after yourself, and I'll watch after myself, and thus with each of us protecting ourselves, watching after ourselves, we'll show off our skill, receive our reward, and come down safely from the bamboo pole.'

"What Frying Pan, the assistant, said to her Master was the right way in that case.

SN 47.19

 

[NMSquirrel]

Why not take care of one's own problems?

no matter what the discussion, no matter how practical the solutions,
this is what it always ends up being.


some ppl do not have the skills to take care of their own problems, so they get left behind.this does not mean they do not have value.
i often wonder how many more genius/artists we would have if the focus was not on chasing money..

 

[wynn]

some ppl do not have the skills to take care of their own problems, so they get left behind.this does not mean they do not have value.

In survival terms: Yes, it does mean that they do not have value.

 

[NMSquirrel]

In survival terms: Yes, it does mean that they do not have value.

even in survival terms they have value when they can still contribute to the whole.

once upon a time, the focus for survival was on the community..not everyone needed to know how to do all things,

these days the community attitude tends to be sacrificed for the individual.

how sad is it when one has the skill to help another, and uses the excuse that the other should know how to do these things, as an excuse to not help.

 

[wynn]

even in survival terms they have value when they can still contribute to the whole.

once upon a time, the focus for survival was on the community..not everyone needed to know how to do all things,

these days the community attitude tends to be sacrificed for the individual.

Life nowadays is as it is.
Each man on his own, essentially.

how sad is it when one has the skill to help another, and uses the excuse that the other should know how to do these things, as an excuse to not help.

I do not think this is what is happening.

 

[NMSquirrel]

Life nowadays is as it is.
Each man on his own, essentially.

this attitude gets my goat, especially for christians!
this is not what the bible teaches,it upsets me when i hear a christian use 'God helps those who help themselves'(or any such excuse) as an excuse to not help another person.

I do not think this is what is happening.

granted my attitude on this is tainted by my own lack.
i am not meant to do this world by myself, yet the world continues to make me do it all by myself.

 

[wynn]

Perhaps it's simply that you are relying on others too much.

 

[NMSquirrel]

Perhaps it's simply that you are relying on others too much.

there is a line..(see 'how much do we do it to ourselves')

 

[chimpkin]

One of the reasons I help others is because I want a world in which those who fall down are lifted back up.
Reminds me, I have to see how_______ is doing tonight...

 

[wynn]

When the blind lead the blind
both shall fall into the ditch!