So, now you're going to run away right when you've been put on the spot to explain yourself? No, I'm not rattled at all. Go ahead, answer the questions?
A world with a loving God.
- Thread starter Xelasnave.1947
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So, now you're going to run away right when you've been put on the spot to explain yourself? No, I'm not rattled at all. Go ahead, answer the questions?
Xelasnave.1947
Valued Senior Member
How pleasant to log in and find your reply... just now..very convenient for me before lunch even...I can write whilst I wait for something to defrost.
What was the licence you gave me to use your words...something about coming up with the goods...can you come up with the goods?...no matter...there will be no goods in your games I suspect.
Now Jan or should I call you God may I ask why dont you do something to sort out the inequity in the world as leaving it in the hands of humans is just not working. Did you find your keys? I bet you have never lost them being God and all.
You mean I am going to have to go thru countless scientific papers and articles to get a hint of it all? Look God I will take you at your word ..if you can't rely on God really who can you rely on?
It's because I am so humble.
Atheists I bet.
Here I am sharing my inner most private thoughts and you throw them out in such a casual way...I am lost for words the hurt is so great.
Brilliant move..well played...
How did you ever become so wise..is it cause you are God..that's it isn't it?Because no one can produce any evidence for the fairytale, the next step is the endless stream of waffle. Believe me, when I tell you don’t want that in your thread.
What do you expect? We have selected our weapons you yours so I thought I would use the same.
And it should remain fun. You have your beliefs which I respect I have my beliefs that I respect. You do a great job here providing opportunity for folk to discuss delicate matters in a nice way. You certainly make me realise that...sorry it's gone...yes I just remembered...it is supposed to be fun.
It appears to have met the requirements of the philosophy of science, with research, observation, peer reviewed papers, compelling evidence...apart from that it's got nothing.
On this forum.
You apparently are a theist and from what I gather hold the Bible in high regard such that your core beliefs are no doubt formed by its general premise...now accepting that is your reality I expect nothing I could say an change your view and rejection and so there is no point in my trying to show you that your beliefs could be wrong...if you really want to know about science it is only a Google away ...maybe you could ask Ray.
Talk to you later in my prayers...I will make a list.
Alex
Yes Jan, run away, it's what you do best. Empty claims, empty explanations, empty head.
I know. Right?
Thank you.
This life is too short to be all dreary.
Hope you are having fun.
What would you say is the compelling evidence?
I said “established science”.
Perhaps you misread.
I always knew you couldn’t show me something that can’t be shown, I just wanted to see how you handled the question.
Not bad!
Xelasnave.1947
Valued Senior Member
Yes thank you. It is an honor to pass the time with you in a nice carefree way.
I think being able to see the basic layout of animals to a large degree ... You can see where there is a basic Patten...the fins of a fish translate to fingers on a human...that is the best I can offer at an entirely personal level.
However I can accept that layout could be designed by your intelligent designer for example or indeed even a remote possibility the theory could be flawed in some way...but I can't condense all that I have read that is supportive to give you the answer you seek. However you seem very dismissive without evidence.. I have read plenty of evidence in support which is credible. It's not just made up like a scripture.
If you had good evidence to support your contention that would be another matter.
I do however have reasonable confidence that the science is very solid...
Perhaps the most honest answer I can give is that personally I don't know but the work of others leads me to believe what you call Darwinism is way ahead of creation...when it all boils down Jan there are few things we can know without taking into account the work of others...but as I said I am confident because the theory is not something made up out of thin air and regrettably one can make that accusation of all scripture that it has high credibility...and I know it's becomes tiresome but one can't put any confidence in scripture given the ignorance of the authors...clearly the mistakes exclude scripture as God inspired so we deal with uninspired work which is basically useless. If there is a god we can't know anything via speculation or guessing yet that is the basis of all beliefs...not a thing that clearly shows the myth has any substance..science does not rely upon speculation or guess work so there is no point in accepting anything less. The only honest answer for a theist is to say they don't know cause they don't...there is no evidence that stands a reasonable test. Now the beauty of scientific papers we can expect a much higher degree of credibility given the peer review aspect and the research..it stands the test or is thrown out...there are scientists who make particular aspects their life work suggesting that they certainly will know more that the rest of us...and sure stuff gets thru that is wrong etc but the scientific method is way ahead of ancient scriptures written by folk who were hopelessly uninformed...as I repeat to drive home their ignorance ...they did not know where the Sun went at night and thought illness was caused by demons. These are not folk you go to for knowledge.
Well until you can show otherwise I see Darwinism as you call it as it is embodied in The Theory of Evolution to be established science and to me it certainly appears you trash that established science. If you wish to reject my view it is up to you to be very specific in your rejection and resist the urge to be casual and flippant...I know you like to stir folk up but if you want serious input from others you need to change your approach frankly. If you don't want to be serious I can play that game.
There is an inherent danger in putting expectations in the mix as it can only influence your processing of any data.
The general problem for most all humans is such..you see things having qualified them by your religious expectations or even your science expectations I guess..you are not alone... so it seems. It's what humans do. You have done it with me so rather than enjoy my honesty all you can say is "I knew it"...think of what such an approach robs you of.
Alex
foghorn
Valued Senior Member
Watch it JR, I hear Jan has a very powerful friend.
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Okay.
You don’t need to condense all the evidence.
Just give me what you think is compelling evidence.
What evidence have you read that makes you think there may be something to this theory of evolution malarkey?
The thing that could have made me go there, was the similarity between apes and humans.
I think you need good evidence to conclude that there is no God. I think darwinism was a pretty good attempt. And for a while it rocked. But as time went on, the holes started to get bigger and bigger. Now you can find it in the bargain bin, held together with bits of string.
I’m just pulling your leg.
It’s sad isn’t it, I have to qualify everything I joke about darwinism, so as not to get banned.
But others can say whatever they like about God. “A toast, to the death of free speech, on sciforums”.
I personally think Darwin was under pressure by factions of the establishment, to rush his theory through, because the time was right to rival the majority of the establishment which would have been Christian.
He seemed like a really decent fellow, and had a strong conviction for his discipline.
I totally understand that.
The mistake I think you make, is that they are comparable.
It’s the difference between eating food that you like, and the need to eat food in order to function.We only pay attention to the latter, when we have to think about the reality. But we pick and, love and hate, save and waste, to our hearts content, the former. Without ever having to think of reality.
“God” is not just a hypothesis, or theory. If that were the case, He wouldn’t be important. He would simply be a choice. God is the origin of everything. That’s why I say “God Is”. God is the reason we sit here today and decide if God exists or not. So asking for some kind of evidence for Go, so you come to the conclusion that He either exists or not. Is actually reinforcing in your mind, there is no God.
It’s a clever psychological trick that is hidden in plain sight.
You’re right. I thank God for science. It give us an insight into the mind of God. Think about that before you respond.
Do you want a plaque, or trophy?
Of course I enjoy your honesty. I told you that on numerous occasions (a bit long winded but...).
I gotten to understand why the Greeks coined the term atheist and theist. Them Greeks were pretty smart back in the day.
When you break the terms down, they are pretty deep. Both position are true, but from their own perspective. Neither position at their initial point are superior, or inferior to one another. But as we progress properly, within those perspectives, we realise that the real difference between the two, is simply, the atheist has a lack of the other. Hence the definitions.
You, simply have a lack of belief in God, which is why you cannot see it the way I see it.
But to add to that. Now you are a grown man, you are perfectly content with that lacking. I as a grown man, am content with my belief.
have a marvellous day Alex.
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No worry... i intend to stay neutral.!!!
Wasting everyone's time again, Jan? We know you're just going to deny whatever anyone writes.
Unlike Jan, who did not think before writing that remark.
Xelasnave.1947
Valued Senior Member
I don't intend doing more.
I know what you are doing and I accept that I probably believe the theory with less evidence than I think I have...yet I know I am right. And how your position re god is similar ... the thing is neither of us can prove something to the other we either believe something or not.
I can't make you. If you can't accept it that is up to you. I don't entirely accept the big bang theory so I know what it's like to take a position that rejects our best science.
I can understand you may feel that way but just as you seek from me specific evidence you are asked for evidence to support your claims that it's all rubbish.
Perhaps if your claims were specific they could be dealt with.
Why do you think that?
I agree they are two different approaches.
Of course you think that...I believe everything had no origin so no creator.
Neither of us has evidence to convince the other as we treat our speculation as fact.
To you god makes perfect sense to me the opposite makes perfect sense.
That is better than thinking it's somehow wrong. If there is a god science would be his doing.
I can see it your way but I prefer my way.
Jan you have a great day.
Alex
Xelasnave.1947
Valued Senior Member
The God proposition ....
God exists in eternity, what ever that is..how do we know this? Who is our eye witness to such a place..who is qualified to describe it? Could it be that this place is mere speculation?
God leaves eternity ( how long he has existed in eternity up to this point is unknown) to create a finite universe apparently for the purpose of creating humans...in his image...thinking this through makes one wonder why this god had a mouth, ears and other things that being a solitary god he would have no need.
The first batch of humans did not please him so he drowned most of them like unwanted kittens, and one must ask why keep any from this first apparently disappointing batch.
When humans became more numerous he select one small group as favorites neglecting all the rest it seems.
Still upset with the first batch he decides to send his son to Earth for the express purpose of having him sacrificed to forgive humans for things done in the early days. But his son is god so he can only be seen as sacrificing himself to himself to forgive humans for the mistake of the original batch...weird stuff.
Just is impossible to accept I find ...the story can only be myth...a story to tell another story...what is the real story? What parts need adjustment..all or none?
Knowing God can only be a guessing game in my view...really if there is a god humans can not know a thing ... Guessing is not truth.. truth is..I don't know.
Alex
God exists in eternity, what ever that is..how do we know this? Who is our eye witness to such a place..who is qualified to describe it? Could it be that this place is mere speculation?
God leaves eternity ( how long he has existed in eternity up to this point is unknown) to create a finite universe apparently for the purpose of creating humans...in his image...thinking this through makes one wonder why this god had a mouth, ears and other things that being a solitary god he would have no need.
The first batch of humans did not please him so he drowned most of them like unwanted kittens, and one must ask why keep any from this first apparently disappointing batch.
When humans became more numerous he select one small group as favorites neglecting all the rest it seems.
Still upset with the first batch he decides to send his son to Earth for the express purpose of having him sacrificed to forgive humans for things done in the early days. But his son is god so he can only be seen as sacrificing himself to himself to forgive humans for the mistake of the original batch...weird stuff.
Just is impossible to accept I find ...the story can only be myth...a story to tell another story...what is the real story? What parts need adjustment..all or none?
Knowing God can only be a guessing game in my view...really if there is a god humans can not know a thing ... Guessing is not truth.. truth is..I don't know.
Alex
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Are you just going to leave that hanging?
Xelasnave.1947
Valued Senior Member
Sorry I forgot a question mark it seems Jan. I have decided to indulge others reality so if you wish to edit yours go ahead...how shall we call you so I speak to you in your reality.Are you just going to leave that hanging?
If you wish to claim that you are god but god does not exist, at least that is my impression and perhaps it could be that impression that may cause you to edit to help adjust my impression.
Alex
Don’t you see it as a misrepresentation of what I said?