A too funny response..?

[Cris]

Chosen,

It's not natural to be homosexual. Because it's counter-productive against natural reproduction, you can't surely say it's "natural" to be gay. But I can say it's natural to be heteorsexual, it is required for reproduction.

But being natural means being in accord with nature. Nature produces homosexuals; hence homosexuality must be natural. The only way you can conclude that homosexuality is unnatural is if a guiding intelligence deliberately altered the development phase of early life within a fetus, and clearly that has not happened.

Natural selection can result in conditions where the traits in a species do not favor survival and the species will become extinct. Many known species have already become extinct. Extinction is natural. Continued reproduction is a trait that tends to favor survival of a species, and is also a natural process. If the trait of homosexuality become increasingly common such that sexual reproduction became less and less common (assuming no IVF, or cloning), then the eventual result would be that the human race would become extinct. This would still be natural.

There is nothing about evolution that says a positive trait is natural and a negative trait is unnatural, both are equally natural. In this respect homosexuality is as natural as heterosexuality.

Cris

 

[GB-GIL Trans-global]

I agree with everything Cris has said. In fact, I agree so much I want his ass

j/k

Although this may seem counterproductive: if humans and many other spiecies were meant to have only straight sex, how do you explain the asshole? I've always wondered, why not have an asshole for one person (animal) and a hollow penis for the other? They could let out both types of waste thru it (food and blood waste from the liver), and to reproduce sperm could be passed thru the end of this massive hole... thingy... lol.

 

[Cris]

GB-Gil,

Hmmm, I think I'm glad we are seperated by the internet. LOL.

Cris

 

[Adam]

You two make a cute couple. I think I hear violins...

 

[Cris]

Chosen,

Really?? I don't think it is commonplace. I don't believe animals are completely homosexual in which they refuse to open to the other sex.

Oh OK, I guess it depends on what is meant by commonplace. I stopped searching after the first 1000 web sites that showed animal homosexuality is very commonplace.

Here is just one reference.

http://www.allaboutsex.org/AnimalSexuality101.html

Evidence is a far more powerful basis for belief than just speculative imagination.

Cris

 

[Cris]

Adam,

You two make a cute couple. I think I hear violins...

Oh man, now we have voyeurs as well.

Cris

 

[~The_Chosen~]

Originally posted by Cris
Evidence is a far more powerful basis for belief than just speculative imagination.

Cris

Good link.

Evidence is a far more powerful basis for knowing, but belief is a far more powerful basis for learning.

But thanks, you do realize the error in your statement, right? (if it's related to religious belief)

 

[Cris]

Chosen,

Evidence is a far more powerful basis for knowing, but belief is a far more powerful basis for learning.

But thanks, you do realize the error in your statement, right? (if it's related to religious belief)

No.

People are free to believe whatever they wish.

The value of any belief depends on the basis of the belief.

If you read a children’s fairy story and choose to believe the story is true then the value of your belief is equal to a fictional fantasy.

If you study a scientific paper explaining how snake poison can kill humans and which shows examples and proofs, and you choose to believe this then the value of your belief has real practical value.

When someone says they believe something then that is really a shorthand phrase for stating that they believe that the proposed claim is a representation of a truth.

You state: .. belief is a far more powerful basis for learning.. You should be able to see from my explanation above that your statement is untrue. If the basis for your belief is a fairy story then nothing has been learnt, and in fact you will have reached an invalid conclusion and further search based on a fairy story will be fruitless.

You may choose to believe something as true that you do not know as true (you have no evidence or proofs). This is defined as irrational or illogical thinking.

Choosing to believe something that you know is true (has supporting evidence and proof) is logical reasoning.

Without any supporting evidence or proofs then the basis for religious beliefs are no different to that of the children’s fairy story. I.e. Has no practical value.

Cris

 

[Xev]

You two make a cute couple. I think I hear violins...

That's me with the fiddle.

Chosen:

It just ruins the trust and any more hopes for a real relationship. Other than that, she might challenge you and her female "friend", in the end she will pick her female friend, so it's no use fighting over such a woman (no offense) or having a relationship with one

None taken, it's virtually impossible to offend me, but you're confusing lesbians and bisexuals. You would never get any action out of a true lesbian because she would be frankly - disgusted or at least uninterested in sex with a man.

As for "natural", well, there is a possible evolutionary reason for homosexuality. And I note that most homosexuals can and do have children - simply not with their partner.

Oscar Wilde, who I presume you know of, had children. Most homosexuals CAN stomach the thought of sex with a person of the opposite gender, although they may prefer their own. It is only nowadays that homosexuals can truely excersize this choice.

I (and Richard Dawkins, give credit where due) submit that homosexuality is a natural form of population control, keeping resource use down.

BTW, I'm not sure you wish to get into the realm of what is "natural" in sex.

(The easily offended may wish to skip the following


Is a blowjob natural? Cunnigilitis? How about plushie fantasies? Rape fantasies? Roleplaying? S&M? Beso negro? Catholic Schoolgirl fantasies? Are - okay, I've made my point.

Yet these are all relatively common sexual acts or desires. Other than strengthening the pair bond, few have real reproductive use.

 

[~The_Chosen~]

Originally posted by Cris
You state: .. belief is a far more powerful basis for learning.. You should be able to see from my explanation above that your statement is untrue. If the basis for your belief is a fairy story then nothing has been learnt, and in fact you will have reached an invalid conclusion and further search based on a fairy story will be fruitless.

Cris

Yes, if it is a fairy story. But belief can cause determination, faith can be used as a catalyst for knowledge.

So we are both right, according to what we state, but my statement still stands.

 

[~The_Chosen~]

Originally posted by Xev
None taken, it's virtually impossible to offend me, but you're confusing lesbians and bisexuals. You would never get any action out of a true lesbian because she would be frankly - disgusted or at least uninterested in sex with a man.

Well she wasn't a total lesbian, a bisexual actually to date me, but she was swinging more towards the lesbian side.

As for "natural", well, there is a possible evolutionary reason for homosexuality. And I note that most homosexuals can and do have children - simply not with their partner.

Then they can raise another homosexual.

Oscar Wilde, who I presume you know of, had children. Most homosexuals CAN stomach the thought of sex with a person of the opposite gender, although they may prefer their own. It is only nowadays that homosexuals can truely excersize this choice.

Just donate sperm, how hard is that?

I (and Richard Dawkins, give credit where due) submit that homosexuality is a natural form of population control, keeping resource use down.

Yes I agree 100%

BTW, I'm not sure you wish to get into the realm of what is "natural" in sex.

The only thing I can think of that is natural in sex is pleasure.

Is a blowjob natural? Cunnigilitis? How about plushie fantasies? Rape fantasies? Roleplaying? S&M? Beso negro? Catholic Schoolgirl fantasies? Are - okay, I've made my point.

Yet these are all relatively common sexual acts or desires. Other than strengthening the pair bond, few have real reproductive use.

Whoa whoa, someone sounds spontaneous and exciting here...hmmm...you probably had experience with such...

Actually to quote one thing, rape fantasies. Some women actually dream and want such a thing, or at least one girl I was with. (Some women don't know what they want!) Guys, this is totally misleading, such fantasies are that, fantasies, No women ever wants to be raped. The schoolgirl thing, cunniglis, roleplaying - they all want...so please do know if your women's fantasy remains just that, fantasy.

Humans are at a higher level than *just sex* - we are indeed evolving.

 

[Xev]

Chosen:

Well she wasn't a total lesbian, a bisexual actually to date me, but she was swinging more towards the lesbian side.

I see. Sorry to hear about that.

The only thing I can think of that is natural in sex is pleasur

Agreed.

Whoa whoa, someone sounds spontaneous and exciting here...hmmm...you probably had experience with such...

Not quite or all. I actually find the idea of the baso negro to be - disgusting.

Actually to quote one thing, rape fantasies. Some women actually dream and want such a thing, or at least one girl I was with. (Some women don't know what they want!) Guys, this is totally misleading, such fantasies are that, fantasies, No women ever wants to be raped. The schoolgirl thing, cunniglis, roleplaying - they all want...so please do know if your women's fantasy remains just that, fantasy.

Correct. Actually, I'd class them as a lower - more primitive, less well understood by the fantasizer - form of S&M.

 

[Tyler]

"Then they can raise another homosexual."

Studies have shown that you are neither more or less likely to be homosexual if raised by 0, 1 or 2 homosexual parents.


"Is a blowjob natural? Cunnigilitis? How about plushie fantasies? Rape fantasies? Roleplaying? S&M? Beso negro? Catholic Schoolgirl fantasies? Are - okay, I've made my point."

No you haven't. Rape is quite natural. Rape is probably the most natural of all sexual urges. Every man has that urge. Why? Rape would ensure only the strong reproduce. Evolutionary tool. You know that. Schoolgirl fantasy is also quite normal. The prime woman to get pregnant is one between the ages of 16-21 (I may be wrong here, it may be 15-19). So for a man to have an instinct towards a young girl he would generally link it to a common image of youth in girls - the catholic uniform. Same with College Co-eds. Search the internet and find how many College Co-Ed porn sites you can find.


Just had to throw in my two cents.

 

[Joeman]

Originally posted by Cutie
Is a blowjob natural? Cunnigilitis? How about plushie fantasies? Rape fantasies? Roleplaying? S&M? Beso negro? Catholic Schoolgirl fantasies? Are - okay, I've made my point.

This thread is pretty boring until this. I don't even know what a lot of them mean. I have nothing else to add. How can I be more sexually naive than an 18 year old? Geez. Okay back to your regularly scheduled homosexuality debate.

 

[Xev]

Joeman:

This thread is pretty boring until this.

*Bows*

Just living up to the example my namesake set.

I don't even know what a lot of them mean.

How explicit should I get?

Is a blowjob natural? - You know this one

Cunnigilitis? - I probably misspelled. Mi speling iz horribel. Oral sex with a woman as the recipient.

How about plushie fantasies? - The use of stuffed animals as a, er, "aid". I do NOT want to go into this in detail.

Rape fantasies? - More common than one might imagine, especially in women who have been raised to repress their sexual urges.

Basically, the fantasy of being "forced" to have sex.

Roleplaying? - Basically, the partners will "act out" scenes from fantasy or fiction, only with their own unique erotic spin on the scene or whatever.

Common in Trekkies, who might dress up as characters from Star Trek and - er, go at it.

S&M? - Sadomasocism. I'm sure I used too many "c"s there. Or maybe forgot an "h".

Whatever. It's not on my SAT wordlist.

Beso negro? - Er, I frankly find this rather gross. Spanish for "black kiss" - the act of inserting one's tounge into one's partner's rectum.

*Xev bows*

See the value of a classical education?

Tyler:

No you haven't. Rape is quite natural. Rape is probably the most natural of all sexual urges. Every man has that urge. Why? Rape would ensure only the strong reproduce. Evolutionary tool. You know that.

And I followed with "fantasy". You've not shown that it is natural for a woman to fantasize about being raped.

*Ascends soapbox*

To say "this sex act is not natural" is to open up a veritable Pandora's box. How do we define "natural", anyway? I have above described some of the accouterments of heterosexual sex - and homosexual, of course, but in no way limited to gays.

I am sure that everyone here could find something either "wrong", "unnatural" or "disgusting" in the above. I myself find the idea of the baso negro to be - icky - as I've noted. Yet who am I to judge?

I doubt very much that the label of "natural" or "wrong" has any real basis when applied to sex. There is no real rational basis to pass judgement on what consenting adults do in the privacy of their own homes*.



*Of course, some find publicity stimulating....but I think you are all looking at me a little :bugeye: ed already.

 

[Joeman]

Xev, that is why I find you intriguing and scary at the same time. I mean it in a good way You really make me want to find out what else is in the dirty little mind of yours

 

[wet1]

There's only one thing I have to say about homo-sexuality. It is not clear to a person whether he/she is homo-sexual or not, till a certain age when it becomes clear to them they prefer humans of the same gender.

I do not think it has to do with choice. It is something that is already there, a feeling, if you wish.

I do not see anything wrong in homo-sexual people, raising a child. It is the child him/herself who finally gets to know his/her true love, may it be for the opposite sex or for the same as they are.

"Rules", coming from the bible are just made up to force upon people. As always, there are always exceptions on that "rules". It's rather ridiculous to live by those "rules" anyways, 'cause it says that you may not use birth control. No, just make the women pregnant, so they can spend most of their lifetime being pregnant and look after all the little ones they already have.

My goodness, what a fair system...

 

[GB-GIL Trans-global]

Err... before giving my partner a "beso negro", I'd wipe their ass myself. or... bedet, anyone?

And Banshee-- I find myself right at that age, yet I'm not sexually attracted to men or women, but rather snakes-- upon seeing snake genitalia or nipples (male or female), I get very hard and begin having fantasies about an... err... "intimate relationship" with a snake.

What to do?

 

[GB-GIL Trans-global]

Originally posted by GB-GIL Trans-global
Err... before giving my partner a "beso negro", I'd wipe their ass myself. or... bedet, anyone?

And Banshee-- I find myself right at that age, yet I'm not sexually attracted to men or women, but rather snakes-- upon seeing snake genitalia or nipples (male or female), I get very hard and begin having fantasies about an... err... "intimate relationship" with a snake.

What to do?

I've even had "orgasmes reptiliques" :X

 

[Tyler]

"You've not shown that it is natural for a woman to fantasize about being raped."

Perhaps a woman has the instincts as well to produce the strongest species? Anywho you question what is natural?

"Conforming to the usual or ordinary course of nature"

Dealing with sex, rape would be quite natural as it is an evolutionary tool.


"I am sure that everyone here could find something either "wrong", "unnatural" or "disgusting" in the above."

Many people have this kind of thought implemented in them before they even know of all the sex acts that will repulse them.