A too funny response..?

W

wet1

Wanderer
Registered Senior Member
Dr. Laura Schlessinger is a US radio personality who dispenses advice to people who call in to her radio show. Recently, she said that, as an observant Orthodox Jew, homosexuality is an abomination according to Leviticus 18:22, and cannot be condoned under any circumstance.
The following is an open letter to Dr. Laura penned by a US resident, which was posted on the Internet. It's funny, as well as informative:

Dear Dr. Laura:
Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's Law. I have learned a great deal from your show, and try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. End of debate.

I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some of the other specific laws and how to follow them.

1. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord - Lev. 1:9. The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them.
Should I smite them?

2. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?

3. I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual cleanliness - Lev.15:19-24. The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.

4. Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?

5. I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself?

6. A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is a abomination of Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this?

7. Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?

8. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev. 19:27. How should they die?

9. I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?

10. My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev. 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? - Lev.24:10-16. Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)

I know you have studied these things extensively, so I am confident you can help. Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging.

Your devoted disciple and adoring fan, Jim




;)
 
That is hilarious and goes a long way toward pointing out the glaring difference between "Old Testement" (Old Covenant) Jewish ceremonial law and our current social paradigm (many of us here are Gentiles, meaning non-Jewish, and so these specific laws do NOT neccessarily apply to us).

As I've heard it said, that the "Old Testement" was written FOR us (Christians), but not TO us.

However, on the question of homosexuality, you don't need to look to Leviticus, and old Jewish ceremonial law, to see that homosexuality is wrong (as are MANY other things). Here is an informative scripture from the "New Testement" that delineates around 28 "deadly sins":

"...God gave them over and abandoned them to vile affections and degrading passions. For their women exchanged their natural function for an unnatural and abnormal one,
And the men also turned from natural relations with women and were consumed with lust for one another-- men committing shameful acts with men and suffering in their own bodies and personalities the inevitable consequences and penalty of their wrong-doing and going astray, which was their fitting retribution.
And so, since they did not see fit to acknowledge God or approve of Him or consider Him worth the knowing, God gave them over to a base and condemned mind to do things not proper or decent but loathsome, until they were saturated with every kind of unrighteousness:

iniquity
grasping
covetous greed
malice
envy
jealousy
murder
strife
deceit
treachery
ill will
cruel ways
secret backbiting
gossip
Slander
hateful to and hating God
insolence
arrogance
boasting
inventors of new forms of evil
disobedient and undutiful to parents
without understanding
conscienceless
faithless
heartless
loveless
merciless

Though they are fully aware of God's righteous decree that those who do such things deserve to die, they not only do them themselves but approve and applaud others who practice them." -- Romans 1:26-32

I think too much emphasis is placed on homosexuality alone. There are many sins. Homosexuality is by no means the worst. But it is just another sinful act. Those who live in sin (any sin) and flaunt it proudly, the Bible says will wind up being "lost" if they die in their sin. When the Bible says here "die" it is referencing the second death, namely death of the spirit, or the "death" of the lost soul.

We must hate the sin, but NEVER the sinner!!!!!!!!

Still and all I think the response to Dr. Laura is great!

-Mike
 
Ekimklaw:

<i>Homosexuality is by no means the worst [sin]. But it is just another sinful act.</i>

Do you have any reason <b>other</b> than what is written in the bible for thinking there is something wrong with homosexuality?
 
Originally posted by James R
Ekimklaw:

<i>Homosexuality is by no means the worst [sin]. But it is just another sinful act.</i>

Do you have any reason <b>other</b> than what is written in the bible for thinking there is something wrong with homosexuality?
Click to expand...

Ekimklaw: "Of course. God says so too."

JamesR: "Where does God say that?"

Ekimklaw: "In the bible..."

:bugeye:
 
Banshee,

LOL, Nice one.

I think the point was lost on Ekimklaw. Isn't it the point that the good doctor is advocating exactly that the OT Leviticus texts are to be obeyed. The point isn't that homosexuality may or might not be wrong but that the OT texts are so ludicrous that anyone would choose to use them as real advice to anyone in this more enlightened age.

Cris
 
Originally posted by James R
Ekimklaw:

<i>Homosexuality is by no means the worst [sin]. But it is just another sinful act.</i>

Do you have any reason <b>other</b> than what is written in the bible for thinking there is something wrong with homosexuality?
Click to expand...

I have nothing against homosexuals personally. I just believe their conduct is a sin. Simple as that.

I simply see homosexuality as wrong. However, if two homosexuals want to live together in a consensual relationship, that is their own private business. I have a problem with militant "gays" trying to force straight people to declare their lifestyle "normal", when it is not. If you want to be gay, go ahead. That is your business. But don't try to force me to say your lifestyle is "normal".

This is all my opinion based on personal belief and is not meant to impugn anyone personally in any way. Again, I am against the sin, not the sinner.

-Mike
 
Originally posted by Adam


Ekimklaw: "Of course. God says so too."

JamesR: "Where does God say that?"

Ekimklaw: "In the bible..."

:bugeye:
Click to expand...

What is your point here?

-Mike
 
I'm an orthodox Jew as well. Although I don't do everything perfectly "orthodox" I still try to follow the teachings of the Torah. That still doesn't mean without Question.

So I'd wonder why it says Homosexuality is a sin? In another portion, it says that it's a mitzvot to have many children, and very well, it should be. By being gay, and living that way, don't you lend yourself to not doing this mitzvot, and thereby commiting a sin since we're supposed to do these good deeds whenever we can! Ha.

I don't hate homosexual people. My christian and Jewish friends don't. Infact, it's a scientific fact that much of homosexuality is natural. We should hate the general sin of sterelity and rebelling against our position of spreading our genes and having Sex, with the opposite gender,ofcoarse (which is also one of the best mitzvot we can do)! Now, I guess if you consider that some homosexuals adopt kids or have test tube babies, they might not be doing such a bad thing, afterall. The sin doesn't lie in the actions, but rather the effects, IMO.
 
Ekim,

I have nothing against homosexuals personally. I just believe their conduct is a sin. Simple as that. I have a problem with militant "gays" trying to force straight people to declare their lifestyle "normal", when it is not.
Click to expand...
But why is homosexuality considered a sin? And why do you consider it not normal?

There is now considerable evidence that shows that homosexuality is partly genetic and partly due to hormonal imbalances during the early stages of life. The role of the sex hormones during those early stages define the final gender despite the X and Y chromosome counts. These imbalances can also result in hermaphrodites, those with both male and female genitalia, or in many cases incomplete genitalia of either type. These hormonal irregularities result in a wide range of sexual biases. Other early developmental irregularities can result in malformed bodies, blindness, left-handedness, etc. But all these aspects are biologically natural, i.e. they occur without any intelligent direction.

But most of those who survive any developmental variations are real people and should have every right to be considered ‘normal’. Where is it stated that a majority outcome must be considered the only normal outcome? Dwarfism, or little people as they like to be known, could almost be seen as a different race, but they have all the emotions and intellectual capabilities as everyone else. But they are different to the majority, and homosexuals are also different to the majority, and the same for left-handed people. The differences make for a society with wonderful diversity that should be encouraged, explored and welcomed. There should be no place for hate and discrimination of anyone because they are considered different in some way.

If you are going to consider homosexuals who practice their natural tendencies as abnormal then you should be consistent and consider those who are left-handed as abnormal. This might sound humorous but even into the 20th century left-handedness was considered wrong and many thousands of children have been forced to be right-handed and have suffered terribly because of discrimination born of ignorance.

Christianity has a significant pre-occupation with sex, and I have had great difficulty understanding why. The recent sex farce of Catholic priests and the revelation that a large percentage of Catholic priests are gay indicates a real problem for Christian perspectives.

But the reason why Christianity sees natural and normal biology resulting in homosexuality as abnormal is that the science of biology wasn’t known at the time the bible was written. In other words The Word of God was born of ignorance, and is another good indication that the Christian god doesn’t exist.

The discrimination you practice is that you believe what an ancient outdated book says is true rather than evaluate the issues for yourself. And yes you are practicing discrimination because as you state, you consider their activity is abnormal whereas you consider your activity normal. While you might not actively shun people who are ‘different’ many other Christians do actively persecute and make a considerable effort to hate and make the lives of homosexuals quite miserable. I consider that an intolerable attitude.

This is all my opinion based on personal belief and is not meant to impugn anyone personally in any way. Again, I am against the sin, not the sinner.
Click to expand...
I suspect that as a Christian you consider yourself a sinner, as you do every person, correct? We can then consider sin as ‘normal’? I.e. practiced by the majority, or in the Christian view everyone. How then are you any different to the homosexual, who you consider as just another sinner? Shouldn’t you consider both yourself and the homosexual as normal as you both sin? But your words betray your real discriminatory indoctrination since you consider your sins as normal and homosexual sins as somehow abnormal.

Cris
 
You know what the problem with fundies is?

Not enough lesbian porn.


P.S: The OT texts forbid the taking of the passive or female role in male homosexual acts.
 
Homosexuals...

I think homosexuality was not meant to be in the first place. There are males and females for a reason. I have nothing against gays though, that is their life and I have no contempt towards them because I understand their perspective.

Women lesbians...never ever have a relationship with one...she'll definitely ask you about her female partner and lack of trust and downhill from there..
 
I think homosexuality was not meant to be in the first place.
Click to expand...

True. It was an evolutionary mistake. For example, its thought that 15% of male homosexuals are a product of a mother devoloping an immunity towards a certain brain devolopement chemical during gestation. That's why males are more likely to be homosexual if they've had many male siblings before them.



I think it's also important to point out that science still doesn't understand female homosexuality.
 
Chosen,

I think homosexuality was not meant to be in the first place. There are males and females for a reason.
Click to expand...
You are presuming some form of guiding intelligence for life and as yet that remains pure speculation, e.g. “meant to be”, “there is a reason”. Evolution doesn’t indicate any such influence and quite the contrary.

Homosexuality is quite commonplace in most animal species, humans are simply no different.

But our intellect and intelligence has enabled us to create IVF. Effectively sex between males and females is no longer needed for reproduction. In effect the human race could continue to grow and survive even if everyone was homosexual. And with cloning and genetic engineering then eventually there will be no need to have males and females, e.g. males could become redundant first, and then females once artificial wombs could be produced. Diversity could be maintained through directed and planned genetic engineering.

Males and females have been necessary because of the evolutionary path we have traveled, but with our directing intelligence and scientific capabilities then all that can change if we so wish.

Cris
 
Ummm..no Xev

Originally posted by Xev
Chosen:


Well yeah, especially since you won't be getting any action....;)
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It just ruins the trust and any more hopes for a real relationship. Other than that, she might challenge you and her female "friend", in the end she will pick her female friend, so it's no use fighting over such a woman (no offense) or having a relationship with one

Other than that, they are there for pleasure only (no offense)
 
Cris

Originally posted by Cris
You are presuming some form of guiding intelligence for life and as yet that remains pure speculation, e.g. “meant to be”, “there is a reason”. Evolution doesn’t indicate any such influence and quite the contrary.
Click to expand...


Not at all atheistic friend. It's not natural to be homosexual. Because it's counter-productive against natural reproduction, you can't surely say it's "natural" to be gay. But I can say it's natural to be heteorsexual, it is required for reproduction.

Homosexuality is quite commonplace in most animal species, humans are simply no different.
Click to expand...


Really?? :bugeye: I don't think it is commonplace. I don't believe animals are completely homosexual in which they refuse to open to the other sex.

But our intellect and intelligence has enabled us to create IVF. Effectively sex between males and females is no longer needed for reproduction. In effect the human race could continue to grow and survive even if everyone was homosexual.
Click to expand...


No way Cris, you are going to be some mad scientist. :D Sex is definitely needed.

And with cloning and genetic engineering then eventually there will be no need to have males and females, e.g. males could become redundant first, and then females once artificial wombs could be produced. Diversity could be maintained through directed and planned genetic engineering.
Click to expand...


That's crazy science...:confused: How did you come to such a perspective?

Males and females have been necessary because of the evolutionary path we have traveled, but with our directing intelligence and scientific capabilities then all that can change if we so wish.

Cris
Click to expand...

Asexual is natural in some organisms, sex between male and female is natural, homosexuality is not natural.

It's not required in evolution. That is what I meant by "it's not meant to be."
 
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