Agreed, their job is to teach sexual health including prevention of STD's and use of contraception. If they say "but abortion is wrong" ALONG with that information that doesn't play into their jobs. They should probably keep their opinions to themselves but have at least done their jobs.
Because they were dumb? I knew a lot of kids who sat through middle school science and learned not a thing. Because they were so overweight they had neither regular menses nor noticed the weight gain? Lots of potential reasons.
Here comes that anger again. Even though I agree with you you are calling me a liar.
You can't.
Both are examples. Neither is the standard. Like every other aspect of life, every person is different.
Well, you'll have to take that up with Ms. Lucysnow who said that they NEED abortions, rather than just want them.
BTW there is plenty wrong with abortions; it means that the first line of defense has failed, and a woman got pregnant against their desires. Abortion is a poor solution to that, but one I think should be available to women who want it. It's like discussing mastectomies. Are they bad? In general, yes; no one should have them unless they medically need them. They're traumatic, painful and can leave scars both physical and mental. But they should be available to women who want them, because in some cases the alternative is worse.
I think it's wrong to get pregnant and then abort a child purely for convenience. Depends entirely upon the circumstances. Was it medically necessary to prevent death, risk of death or suffering? Then that's not wrong at all. Did she try to use contraception, then have it fail? Then it's not all that wrong; it's a backup to a well-intentioned use of contraceptives. Did she plan to have the child, then the marital problems got in the way? That's also not all that wrong; no one can plan for every contingency. But did she just not care, and figured "what the hell, I'll just abort it if I get pregnant?" Then that is wrong, IMO. But again, she should be the one to make the decision.
See above; depends on the circumstances. She should always have the _right_ to get one.
I'd be careful there. If men should have no say over abortions, women should have no say over palimony. After all, you will never pay it.
IMO it should not be used for contraception. It is killing a potential human life, and that is not something we should do without good reason. Whether or not it is wrong in any specific case depends on the circumstances; a "one size fits all" answer almost never works.
No I was not calling you a liar. I was saying its dishonest to say someone teaching sex health and reproduction only has to teach about STD's and contraception. Its dishonest because its not the full picture. Is a male or female teenager to think they are always safe from pregnancy because they used a condom? What if it breaks and she becomes pregnant? Then what information does she have to go on? I'm saying that an honest assessment of a sexual health class includes ALL options.
Here you answered "Both are examples. Neither is the standard. Like every other aspect of life, every person is different." Which is why you cannot use Brian as an example of the whole pro life movement.
I said need and then I said I will give you that a woman want's an abortion instead of "need". I said I will give that to you and now you can answer the question of what exactly is wrong with a woman who wants an abortion if for example the reasons are not economic or health related.
What's the "first line of defense"? A woman gets pregnant against her desires but a male also impregnates the woman against his desires. It goes back to life being what it is. There are very few people who go to bed with sexual passion paying attention to their p's and q's dotting every i. That's just life. We would like it to be different but it isn't. Unwanted pregnancies happen. Sometimes they happen even when precautions have been taken. Sometimes no protection is used but like anyone can tell you you don't always get pregnant after having sex. But that's really besides the point unless it gets back to answering what is wrong with a woman wanting an abortion?
You say no one should have them unless its medically needed. Well that's an opinion and only your opinion, one I don't share. So now we get to the meat of the matter. A woman who wants an abortion because of an unwanted pregnancy is bad unless I am totally misunderstand what you wrote (correct me if I have). If that is your assessment, then you simply disapprove and so could never really say you "care" about a woman in such a circumstance as you've already judged her as bad. This is the same sentiment I think is shared with all pro lifers. Its tinged with some misogyny especially since males are never added to the equation. She is bad because she bares responsibility and if she decides to take responsibility by having an abortion she still remains bad. Having an unwanted pregnancy makes her what then? Good?
Abortions do not necessarily leave scares, nor are they necessarily traumatic. I know more than a few women who don't suffer from any of that and they have had abortions. Actually I have never known a woman who has had deep regrets or trauma from having an abortion (and I have known women who've had more than one), I'm not saying they don't exist I'm just saying I have never known one. Abortion like pregnancy to term is more common than you think. Women who have had a non-traumatic, painful etc abortion don't have to make a fuss about it. They did it and its done.
From a study conducted in 2000
The impact of an abortion on a woman's mental health has been questioned for years. Some studies have suggested that many women suffer depression, regret and even a form of post-traumatic stress disorder called 'post-abortion syndrome.'But a study out this month finds that 80% of women were not depressed after having an abortion. In fact, the rate of depression in the postabortion group was equal to the rate of depression in the general population. As for post-traumatic stress symptoms, the rate was 1% in the postabortion group compared with an estimated 11% in women of the same age in the general population.
The study's authors say the results agree with previous studies -- including one by former Surgeon General C. Everett Koop, MD -- showing that severe mental distress following an abortion is rare.
"Most women were satisfied with their decision, believed they had benefited more than had been harmed by their abortion, and would have the abortion again," writes study author Brenda Major, PhD. "These findings refute claims that women typically regret an abortion." Major is a professor of psychology at the University of California in Santa Barbara. For the study, published in the August issue of Archives of General Psychiatry, Major and colleagues interviewed 882 women undergoing abortion. The interviews were conducted prior to abortion, immediately after the procedure, and, for 442 women, again two years later.
Nearly 70% of women reported being satisfied with the decision, and 72% reported more benefit than harm. Of those who reported depression or regret after the abortion, most were depressed or had emotional problems prior to becoming pregnant. Experts express little surprise at the findings and say this study is more proof that for the majority of women, abortion has few aftereffects.
In an editorial accompanying the study, Nancy Adler, PhD, says that rather than contributing to mental stress, the studies suggest a significant decrease in mental distress and an increase in positive emotions and self-esteem.Adler, director of health psychology at the University of California in San Francisco, also points out that it is important to look closer at studies that have found psychological harm after abortion to evaluate whether distress really was the result of the abortion, or of other events.
"Experiencing an unwanted pregnancy is itself distressing, as may be the events associated with it. For example, a woman's partner may respond to the pregnancy by leaving her. The abortion then occurs in the context of loss and abandonment, yet depression or distress following the abortion would be attributed to the procedure," Adler writes. Facing hostile protesters and intimidation in seeking an abortion also may be factors that heighten risk for psychological problems postabortion in some women, she says.
http://www.webmd.com/women/news/20000822/study-says-most-women-dont-regret-abortion
You ask whether my friend used contraception. I told you she was married (she's now divorced) with two young boys. So no she wasn't using contraception. Sometime after the abortion she got pregnant again and then had a beautiful little girl who I believe is five or six years old now. You say you think its wrong to get an abortion out of convenience. But its convenient to be a male and say it is wrong since its not a decision you ever have to make. Its your opinion and I'm fine with that but doesn't make it wrong, it simply makes it your opinion and since you never have to get pregnant wanted or unwanted you are not really in a position to even claim you understand what an inconvenient pregnancy might mean. Its the main reason why I take male opinions on the subject with a grain of salt. After all, what do they know. But I asked you the question because the answer is ALWAYS subjective. Its always about what we personally would do, what we personally think is right and wrong for us. There is no way to say what are the right or wrong circumstances in any universal sense and that's what I am trying to point out to you. You cannot say what is convenient nor inconvenient for a stranger and pretend you know or understand or care about what you really don't know or understand. I tell my friends "Tell me what you decide and I will either accompany you or plan the baby shower". And that's it.
Palimony aside men don't have a say in terms of abortion and outside of the context of a personal relationship I don't think they should have a say.
Abortion is not a contraception, its what is used if there was no contraception or contraception failed. There is no "we". You can only say that potential human life is important to you and so its not something you would do without good reason. Outside of that you cannot determine for others whether potentials are relevant nor determine what is a good reason for another person. This is why "one size fits all" answer never works.