A Nightmare Scenario for Homosexuals

[spidergoat]

Thinking about Woody's proposition, I fail to understand why this would be a nightmare for gay people. It's not like they have an interest in creating more of their own kind. Besides, only rich people can afford abortions, and you would need total compliance for it to work.

 

[Woody]

Thinking about Woody's proposition, I fail to understand why this would be a nightmare for gay people. It's not like they have an interest in creating more of their own kind. Besides, only rich people can afford abortions, and you would need total compliance for it to work.

What about planned parenthood. Who pays for those abortions?

 

[Woody]

You said we are all born sinners? So what is it, we are all born potential sinners, but not quite sinners as such. We choose whether or not to become sinners. Does this work for people that grow up without any knowledge of religion, are they not under the penalty of law for reasons of ignorance?

By the knowledge of the law is the knowledge of sin. Those who do not know the law are not under the penalty, however the law itself is written in our hearts -- not to kill, not to steal, etc. Adults know these things are wrong without a bible. Small children do not.

 

[Woody]

Adam was gay!?? Shouldn't somebody tell Eve!??

It was Eve's idea to get it started. Adam, was not gay, he had Eve, and she had his children.

 

[Woody]

Maybe it does, maybe it doesn't.. I'm still at a loss as to the relevance or worth of an old papyrus.

Please, provide a decent argument, (or any argument because your last response certainly wasn't one), as to why women should not be allowed to have abortions.

Because the unborn child is a human being. Nobody argues that point. Instead a woman's right to choose is greater than a child's right to live.

Watch this abortion of an 11 week old fetus and see what you think about it. I'm eager to hear your response:

silent scream video

Supposedly it is not legal to photograph or make movies of abortions. If it were then the abortion argument would be over.

 

[Giambattista]

By the knowledge of the law is the knowledge of sin. Those who do not know the law are not under the penalty, however the law itself is written in our hearts -- not to kill, not to steal, etc. Adults know these things are wrong without a bible. Small children do not.

And so it naturally follows that the act of falling in love with a member of one's own gender instead of the opposite gender is against the law written in "our" hearts?

Apparently, we don't all have the same heart.

Thank God!

 

[Giambattista]

Thinking about Woody's proposition, I fail to understand why this would be a nightmare for gay people. It's not like they have an interest in creating more of their own kind. Besides, only rich people can afford abortions, and you would need total compliance for it to work.

How do you know gay people (or whatever they are) aren't interested in creating more of their own kind? What exactly does that mean? That they don't want children? Or that they don't want their children to be gay?

I know there are plenty who want children (their OWN children, genetically speaking) and I'm sure there are quite a few who would like to see their children (or someone else's) grow up to be like them.

 

[spidergoat]

What about planned parenthood. Who pays for those abortions?

Planned parenthood only exists in the US. There are humans outside of the United States, believe it or not.

 

[spidergoat]

How do you know gay people (or whatever they are) aren't interested in creating more of their own kind? What exactly does that mean? That they don't want children? Or that they don't want their children to be gay?

I know there are plenty who want children (their OWN children, genetically speaking) and I'm sure there are quite a few who would like to see their children (or someone else's) grow up to be like them.

I think Woody thinks that they resemble the church, in that they want to increase their numbers and influence, even recruit new members. While some may actually have this view, I think most just want to be treated equally. I notice many church people think there is some kind of gay agenda to make everyone gay.

 

[Woody]

Planned parenthood only exists in the US. There are humans outside of the United States, believe it or not.

Yeah, like china. A whole lot more there. Haven't they been practicing abortion now for many decades? Government funded of course.

So where is the cost of an abortion (or morning after pill) an obstical to having one?

 

[Mystech]

You need to look at the footnotes. A lot of their information came from studies prior to politicizing the gay movement. There were no gay activists nor was there a NARTH. There is no way you could have researchedt the scientific evidence provided, no way in hell.

Read again, NARTH is specifically cited. There's no valid scientific research or conclusions reported here, just more ridiculous propaganda - science is so far on the side of gay-rights advocates. Say here's a study out from the AAP just recently discussing the effect of same-sex marriage on Children:

http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/full/118/1/349

Hmm seems like homophobes are the ones that are against children. I just wish you wanted what's best for them! But then, I supposed to get any real value out of the study you'd have to be able to tell the difference between a legitimate medical organization and a political think-tank with a social agenda.

So tell me Mystech, what do you think about therapy by coup d'etat? It has your vote, doesn't it?

Coup de'tat? Haha, you're a real crack, up, you know that? I've never been one to believe a bunch of break-away Christian nut-job right-wing political think-tanks who accuse the APA and AAP of being a politically motivated organization, especially when their own colors show so brightly.

Do you honestly believe that one of the most prestigious and credible medical organizations in the world was swayed entirely by the political "power" of the gay rights movement in the early 70s? Haha, what a powerful lobby, the APA must have been shaking in their boots. Too bad that now that the Christian right is back in power they haven't changed it back, wonder what's causing all the foot dragging.

 

[Woody]

Mystech says:

Coup de'tat? Haha, you're a real crack, up, you know that?

OK, so you think it is ok for people to vote on science. I call it political science myself. What do you call it? Truth by majority?

Let's try it out: Let's get in our time machine, roll back to the early 1400s and have a vote: Is the earth flat or is it round?

Why the earth is flat of course. How do ya know sir? Well it's called the Mystech Principle. And if you don't like the answer then just vote different.

Sounds kind of like that TV show "family feud", you know, where they poll the audience first, and the contestants try to guess the number one choice. Like:
What happened to Mystech's brain? Survey sezzzz frontal lobotomy.

 

[Mystech]

Mystech says:



OK, so you think it is ok for people to vote on science. I call it political science. What do you call it? Truth by majority?

Let's try it out. Let's get in our time machine, roll back to the early 1400s and have a vote: Is the earth flat or is it round?

Why the earth is flat of course. How do ya know sir? Well it's called the Mystech Principle. And if you don't like the answer then just vote different.

Frankly I have no idea what you're going on about. As professionals they got together, looked at the body of research they had, debated, came to a consensus, and that consensus was that homosexuality is not a mental disorder and is not in and of itself either a harmful condition nor therapeutically treatable state of being. This is called Science - understanding changes as more information is gathered. Since human sexual study really got under way in the US in the 50s we have learned a great many things! Did you know that even women have orgasms, and circumcision doesn’t actually keep young boys from masturbating later in life? AMAZING!

Homosexuality in the DSM was a throwback to the decades prior when we'd castrate homosexuals, lock them up, or just hang them.

 

[Woody]

Frankly I have no idea what you're going on about. As professionals they got together, looked at the body of research they had, debated, came to a consensus, and that consensus was that homosexuality is not a mental disorder and is not in and of itself either a harmful condition nor therapeutically treatable state of being. This is called Science - understanding changes as more information is gathered. Since human sexual study really got under way in the US in the 50s we have learned a great many things! Did you know that even women have orgasms, and circumcision doesn’t actually keep young boys from masturbating later in life? AMAZING!

Homosexuality in the DSM was a throwback to the decades prior when we'd castrate homosexuals, lock them up, or just hang them.

They did not come to a consensus, but it's irrelevant anyway. DSM is just a starting point for a therapist, they went on doing their job the same anyway. The Zur report, which is really pro-gay for the most part goes into the DSM. Homosexual is treated as "other sexual disorder".

The Zur Institute covers it a lot better than we can here. Check out the link.

DSM can result in screw-ups. How about this one:

“ A review of the literature from the past reveals an interesting tidbit from behavioral psychologist Joseph Wolpe. Wolpe once reported an unexpected cure in a case of homosexuality. No--not with electric prods or lobotomy. In fact, his original therapeutic goal was to reinforce and affirm the 32-year-old patient's homosexual orientation and desensitize his Catholic guilt. This strategy, Wolpe later explained, was due to his belief at the time that homosexuality was biologically determined.

To the surprise of both the patient and Wolpe, the man gave up his homosexual lifestyle and relationship and began to date women. Wolpe explained this spontaneous reversal as a consequence of the patient's feeling more socially assertive, independent and accepted by men for the first time in his life. Four years later, a follow-up showed that the patient had gotten married, was reporting a very satisfactory sex life, and his wife was expecting a baby. ”

ref: Dr. Joseph Wolpe, The Practice of Behavior Therapy (Pergamon Press, 1969, pg 255-262).

Isn't that the position held today in the APA, that homosexuality is biologically determined? error, error, does not compute, error, error.

 

[Giambattista]

OK, so you think it is ok for people to vote on science. I call it political science myself. What do you call it? Truth by majority?

Let's try it out: Let's get in our time machine, roll back to the early 1400s and have a vote: Is the earth flat or is it round?

Why the earth is flat of course. How do ya know sir? Well it's called the Mystech Principle. And if you don't like the answer then just vote different.

You know, I'd really like to be able to read the Gospel of the Hebrews, or other various gospels that were attested to in ancient documents and correspondences, but it seems that the leaders of the larger, more popular churches of the day didn't feel it necessary to preserve them. And no, they weren't all considered heretical by everyone. And does that matter if some of them were?

I think they were voting. And I think they did a great disservice to us here in the future they didn't know or care about.

Of course, being the foundation of the Catholic church, they were absolutely right in everything they did, regardless of how stupid it might have been. Just ask Lawdog.

 

[Mystech]

ref: Dr. Joseph Wolpe, The Practice of Behavior Therapy (Pergamon Press, 1969, pg 255-262).

Isn't that the position held today in the APA, that homosexuality is biologically determined? error, error, does not compute, error, error.

Oh no, a single poorly recounted anecdotal case! You've blown my worldview wide open, Woody! Quick get on the horn, turns out homosexuals just aren't trying hard enough!

Resent research has shown strong biological indicators that are linked to homosexuality, but it is not the APA's position that they know exactly what the cause is any more than they can pinpoint why someone is heterosexual.

 

[Giambattista]

OK, so you think it is ok for people to vote on science.

Seriously, when talking about psychology and to a lesser extent, psychiatry, there is no way around voting on some issues.
The mental health field (counseling, psychology, etc.) is filled to the brim with opinions.

Even the "harder" science of regular medicine has opinions and opposing viewpoints, especially when it comes to gray areas that may be new and unexplored.

Homosexuality is viewed much differently today than it was fifty years ago, for good reason.

There used to be a time when it was considered immoral for women to expose more than ten percent of the flesh on their bodies.

 

[Giambattista]

There used to be a time when it was considered immoral for women to expose more than ten percent of the flesh on their bodies.

Do you still live in that bygone era, Woody? Do you shudder to even think of your wife wearing pants?

 

[redarmy11]

It was Eve's idea to get it started. Adam, was not gay, he had Eve, and she had his children.

So Adam and Eve's children were gay then? If not, exactly when did the gay bloodline emerge?

And do you honestly believe all of that crap anyway - that we came from Adam and Eve!?? Which other patently ridiculous parts of the Bible story do you subscribe to - that God made the Earth in 6 days? That the Earth is only 10,000 years old? That Noah built an ark? Do tell!

 

[Absane]

So Adam and Eve's children were gay then? If not, exactly when did the gay bloodline emerge?

And do you honestly believe all of that crap anyway - that we came from Adam and Eve!?? Which other patently ridiculous parts of the Bible story do you subscribe to - that God made the Earth in 6 days? That the Earth is only 10,000 years old? That Noah built an ark? Do tell!

Apparently incest was ok back then... but not today. And let's not forget to mention the problems of incest breeding are overlooked.