A little question to god

ShyRebel,

the thing I'm grateful for is that i didn't read books to become atheist. I mean I'm 100% sure that I didn't undergo any kind of brainwashing to become an non-muslim/atheist..
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That's good. But if you believe you were brainwashed into being a muslim, can you be sure that brainwashing mechanism is completely defunct?

I don't have the answers for everything but I can see that the secret of the universe is bigger than religion
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Would you say you know everything about religion?


why do you like the Quran? no one likes it, except the brainwashed
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I guess I must be brainwashed then.

But why I like it, is because I recognize the oneness of God (to my conscious level) which is in all the major scriptures, and I don't believe a) man is capable of the wisdom it takes to create this philosophy, b) that there has been a concerted effort over two and a half thousand years (at least), by man, to maintain this one philosophy without change.

jan.
 
ShyRebe,

This is weird. Isn't better for her to be educated?!

I don't know. Do you think educated people are happier than uneducated, or are less likely to harm other beings than the uneducated?

I wish she aborted me.
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That's like.... really heavy man. And well above my pay grade. :)

jan.
 
ShyRebel said:
That's not the question I wanted to ask here but since I had a funny start in this forum I thought of starting this thread :p

I live in a Middle Eastern country and I cover my face with the face veil and wear the black abaya etc but I'm not Muslim any longer and I wish I could move to another country but I don't want to leave my family behind

I'm Atheist today, and I want to ask god one question.

Since my family circumcized me under the name of Islam, would you bring my genitals back if I told you that I'm Atheist today? I chose not to believe in you, so how can you be fair with me? What would you do to make it up to me?

Ok I'm not so serious here :D

but I won't forgive the Muslim god.
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I'm not a muslim myself but it struck me that your question is quite illogical.

If the teachings said that you had to be circumcized because of Allah, then why wouldn't you forgive him? How can you have hatred against a god that you don't believe exists? If he exists then your hatred towards him is true but then the teachings would be true as well and it would be good that you were circumcized. So you can have hatred against the establishment and religion but not towards Allah himself as only if he exists would your hatred be justified, but then only if you were circumcized and he failed you for unfair reasons.
 
Jeeves: Of course. But nature doesn't demand to be worshiped and prayed-to;
wynn: And God does? Where? When? How do you know God indeed demands such things?

There are some quite specific instructions in that fat book all the Christians swear on.

Jeeves: All gods were more or less bad ideas, but Big Omni is the worst idea humans have ever had.
wynn: You are soooo stuck on mainstream Christianity! How come?

The subject at hand was Islam. But they adopted the same Jewish god that the Christians promoted - and are still promoting. It happens to be Christianity that`s causing most of the trouble in my part of the world at the moment, and has done for about 1700 years.
 
Cyperium said:
I'm not a muslim myself but it struck me that your question is quite illogical.

If the teachings said that you had to be circumcized because of Allah, then why wouldn't you forgive him? How can you have hatred against a god that you don't believe exists? If he exists then your hatred towards him is true but then the teachings would be true as well and it would be good that you were circumcized. So you can have hatred against the establishment and religion but not towards Allah himself as only if he exists would your hatred be justified, but then only if you were circumcized and he failed you for unfair reasons.
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I know that it was an illogical question.

Thanks.
 
Jan Ardena said:
ShyRebel,



That's good. But if you believe you were brainwashed into being a muslim, can you be sure that brainwashing mechanism is completely defunct?



Would you say you know everything about religion?




I guess I must be brainwashed then.

But why I like it, is because I recognize the oneness of God (to my conscious level) which is in all the major scriptures, and I don't believe a) man is capable of the wisdom it takes to create this philosophy, b) that there has been a concerted effort over two and a half thousand years (at least), by man, to maintain this one philosophy without change.

jan.
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I know everything about Islam and I know little about Christianity, but the internet gave me the opportunity to see that the religious mentality is the same, whether you were Muslim or Christian. Their mentalities function in the same way..

I'm sure that you haven't studied the quran in depth because those who studied Islam in depth but still respect it have a serious problem in the head. Forget about what you know about abrahamic religions and try to be realistic when you read the Quran.

What I like about the Quran? because of if Arabic hasn't experienced major syntactic changes for a very long time.

So as I already said, you have to be realistic/objective when you read the Quran. The Quran is evil. I'm sure you hate evil
 
I understand religion is guilty of horrid atrocities including FGM. I feel bad that this type of thing can be a part of any culture.

I also however will argue briefly that I was an atheist, but I have come to believe that thought seems to attract and create reality as noted with people who believe in Wicca or law of attraction.

The idea of focusing your thought and being able to alter reality seems far fetched, but I will argue that I am convinced it is real based on personal experiences that are hard to convey in a public forum, and would be doubted or written off here anyhow.

So I believe there is a collective conscious that is inside and part of everything and that this consciousness also can think and is what I call a "god".

So I blame religion and idiots for causing harm in the name of gods. It is sad.

I think religions are often confused with god, but as far as i know god has never started any religion.

I have fought against religions, and refuse to acknowledge Middle Eastern Religions altogether, however the Hindu also seem to focus thought to create their intentions by having multiple gods with multiple purposes. If they want to be healthy they pray to this god. If they want to bring wealth they ask that god, etc. If we go by the philosophy that thought creates reality then that Hindu outlook can work even if in a disguised fashion.
 
ShyRebel said:
I don't want anything from you.
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This thread isn't just about you.
Much of the conversation here is among older posters who've known eachother for a while, and who are using the thread topic for a discussion of a topic per se, not of the poster who started the thread.

If you want help or a more personal approach, the Members section of the forum is where to post it. There, you'll get a different kind of input.


ShyRebel said:
But your sophisticated style of writing makes you look pretentious here
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Lol! Wow, nobody has ever said to me anything like what you just did! Wow.
 
Jan Ardena said:
Okay. The problem with this is, when and how do you know when you've got what you need?
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When I get it.
It's not rocket science.


It looks like you're going for that old "Oh, you already know God and know what God wants from you, you're just pretending you don't see it."
Or "You're happy and satisfied, you just don't see it."


Have you given any thought to where the intuition comes from?
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Of course I have. I can't pin down what exactly the source would be, though.


That's like saying I would do more shopping if only I had an apache helicopter.
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Not sure how you reached that conclusion ...


Knowing this why cling to your particular desire to believe in God?
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Because there's an intuition or at least a hope that belief in God could be a lot more than just those unwholesome things I listed earlier.



Jan Ardena said:
That's like.... really heavy man. And well above my pay grade.
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Oh yes.
 
Jeeves said:
Jeeves: Of course. But nature doesn't demand to be worshiped and prayed-to;
wynn: And God does? Where? When? How do you know God indeed demands such things?

There are some quite specific instructions in that fat book all the Christians swear on.
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But unless you actually believe the Bible is true, then what's the point of arguing that God demands to be worshipped??

Jeeves said:
Of course. But nature doesn't demand to be worshiped and prayed-to; we don't build fancy houses for nature or disfigure our bodies to please nature; nature isn't represented by some pampered old man in red velvet slippers; nature doesn't oppress women or force children to kneel. We can deal with nature, as all animals deal with it. Raising up the idea of an omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent, omnispiteful god is very different from accepting nature.
All gods were more or less bad ideas, but Big Omni is the worst idea humans have ever had.
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What is so difficult about being able to see the internal logic of an idea to which i don't subscribe? Religion is like a video-game: you can understand the rules even if you're not playing.
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You have to be able to clearly distinguish between the game and reality, and not use the game's arguments as if they would be about reality.


Jeeves: All gods were more or less bad ideas, but Big Omni is the worst idea humans have ever had.
wynn: You are soooo stuck on mainstream Christianity! How come?

The subject at hand was Islam. But they adopted the same Jewish god that the Christians promoted - and are still promoting. It happens to be Christianity that`s causing most of the trouble in my part of the world at the moment, and has done for about 1700 years.
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I, and some others here, are talking about the same subject. But we don't share your focus on Abrahamic doctrines as the alpha and omega of religion or theism.
 
Ok wynn i apologize but you should stop talking to me like a 5 year old girl. If i have that crisis of faith i will say that i have crisis of faith. You dont know me better than i know myself and i can express myself without your weird personal analysis
 
One has many adversities in life and when we come to an adversity in our lives we either complain or take action to overcome those. Many people have had the same experience that you have had don but they are living without being so negative as to their problem but find ways to overcome it. Those are the people you should seek out more than us for no one here, that I'm aware of, has your problem. But that isn't my point, my point is they overcame their problem and are living "normal" lives as best they can now.

They see other positive things about life that they involve themselves with other than always dwelling on something they can do nothing about. So if you would put yourself to better use for yourself and just live daily doing things that you enjoy and want to do I think that you'd soon stop thinking about this problem as much and have a better way to live.
 
wynn:
You have to be able to clearly distinguish between the game and reality, and not use the game's arguments as if they would be about reality.
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"As if" was the opening premise.

I, and some others here, are talking about the same subject. But we don't share your focus on Abrahamic doctrines as the alpha and omega of religion or theism.
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The question was directed at a well-known version of the Abrahamic god, not Shinto or Mithraism. I made some effort to stay on topic.
 
ShyRebel said:
I know everything about Islam and I know little about Christianity, but the internet gave me the opportunity to see that the religious mentality is the same, whether you were Muslim or Christian. Their mentalities function in the same way..

I'm sure that you haven't studied the quran in depth because those who studied Islam in depth but still respect it have a serious problem in the head. Forget about what you know about abrahamic religions and try to be realistic when you read the Quran.

What I like about the Quran? because of if Arabic hasn't experienced major syntactic changes for a very long time.

So as I already said, you have to be realistic/objective when you read the Quran. The Quran is evil. I'm sure you hate evil
Click to expand...


Why is the Quran evil?

jan.
 
Jeeves said:
I, and some others here, are talking about the same subject. But we don't share your focus on Abrahamic doctrines as the alpha and omega of religion or theism.
Click to expand...
The question was directed at a well-known version of the Abrahamic god, not Shinto or Mithraism. I made some effort to stay on topic.
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It's not about you being on topic, it's that I think you were arguing from the position as if the Abrahamic notions of God were all there is or the only ones that matter.
 
kwhilborn said:
. . . but I have come to believe that thought seems to attract and create reality . . .
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we are currently developing technology that will allow humans to actually do that.
i believe that full blown mind/machine compatibility is only a few years, 10 maybe, down the road.
such an interface will completely redefine what we know of society.
 
leopold said:
we are currently developing technology that will allow humans to actually do that.
i believe that full blown mind/machine compatibility is only a few years, 10 maybe, down the road.
such an interface will completely redefine what we know of society.
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At the loss of understanding of what it is to BE Human

I find nothing comforting in being eventually computerized and robotized , being biological life form
 
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