A God We Know Nothing About
- Thread starter PsychoticEpisode
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I disagree. Many scientists have been theists. I think the solipsistic aspects of scientific methodology - diconnection is assumed and must be disproven, local realism, etc. - create biases, but God is not, per se, off limits.
Sure, if you use them in relation to yourself. but I am not against science per se. In its place i think it can be useful. And most of us would naturally engage in it in certain situations. Even little kids will try the same thing several times, then change a variable and try again.
Agreed.
Oh, I agree. I hope I haven't given the impression that one must stick to scientific methodology. 1) no one does 2) I don't ( subset of 1)
I don't know. I think it might be possible. Perhaps it will turn out that they find that an overarching consciousness must be present. perhaps they will find that more is conscious then they have realized and build up to the concept of God.
but I see no reason to wait around for science. Nobody does that. How would they ever get married and have kids? I mean scientists seem to be reproducing. And they manage to vote - even for Bush - so we know they make big decisions not using carefully controlled scientific methodologies. And they are opinionated, often strongly, just like everyone else based on non-scientific knowledge producing methods. I mean if you ever decided to back, for example, a president who is going to kill a lot of people, and you reached that backing without having arrived there via carefully controlled scientific methodologies, then, well, you support the use of other methodologies in a very committed way.
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I don't see how this proves anything?
There are many kinds of theists, and there are also many kinds of scientists.
I personally know or know of many theists whom I would never look to for information about God, for example.
Just because someone calls himself a theist or is regard as a theist by some people, doesn't mean he necessarily is someone to turn to when investigating about God.
How is God not off limits for traditional Western science?
But you said:
Yet we are often told, directly and indirectly, that we should basically wait around for science!
Well, I have always thought that these apparent contradictions in the way self-proclaimed scientists behave were a strategy that I simply did not and still don't understand ...
Am I any different than a theist because I believe I am a god? I have no empirical proof that I am but is it really required? After all, I arrived at this conclusion through careful and deliberate meditation. I don't really exist in this reality, it just looks that way. Also I don't really know myself as a god either but I feel very godlike today.
So science is like breathing for you? wow. I breathe all the time except for short periods of sleep apnea. Do you make all your decisions using scientific methodology? I get a headache just imagining your life.
perhaps an explanation why god needs to see a dentist or fill in a tax return could be in order though ...
solipsism affords many luxuries, eh?
I just meant that it is not excluded.
Science is trying to figure things out with certain methods. There is no reason one could not form a hypothesis that involves God and go out and try to prove it with some form of testing or research.
There is nothing that prevents cosmologists from speculating about the necessity of God and then seeing if they can integrate this into what is known in physics.
That was me pointing out a line of reasoning used by anti-theists that I think shows a lack of self-knowledge.But you said:
(but I can understand your confusion. I should have put it in italics or something)
Unless it somehow fits in with common sense. Or one version of it. And even then.
I think your confusion comes from the lack of stated rules.
If the scientists stated that no one should form any important beliefs - let alone act on them - unless these beliefs are supported by scientific research.....
or somethign like that, you could have a go at that rule and see if they follow it themselves.
As it stands now the rule is unstated by applied, and frankly more by people who are not scientists, since, if nothing else, there are more of them,
ad hoc
and the discussion is locked on one issue, God, for example, or ESP.
Why? You know for a fact that God doesn't see a dentist? Taxes are a whole different matter.
That is one kind of theism. Which one depends on how you view this self.
How did you arrive at your decision to vote in the last presidential election? How come so many scientists voted for the other guy?
Oh, yes, there are scientists who have this position. I mean really a completely determined machine - the brain - with self qualia, all of whose matter changes regularly.
You're a god too. You just haven't reached that stage of enlightenment yet.
which is precisely why your rotting molars indicate you are not the man for the job
still doesn't explain why we both have rotting molars
If you continue to delve deep within the untapped recesses of the subconscious mind then it will all be explained. The physical world that provides us with dental work is not as it seems. How do you know they're your teeth? How do you know your teeth are real?
back to the wonderful rewards of solipsism, eh?If you continue to delve deep within the untapped recesses of the subconscious mind then it will all be explained. The physical world that provides us with dental work is not as it seems. How do you know they're your teeth? How do you know your teeth are real?
Had some trouble with the comments and the question, I guess.
Its only your evolved social instincts that make you think that way
Oh, I think there is plenty that prevents scientists from doing what you are suggesting above: first and foremost, the generally accepted Western scientific notions that we are matter, that self is an epiphenomenon; the notion that if God is to answer prayers, these answers would have to be in a format directly recognized by anyone; the notion that all that science does anyway is theory, not absolute science ...
Yes, I wondered what you actually meant.
So what if they follow it themselves, or not?
If they don't, they can always have a go at me with 'you are just not advanced enough to see that we are in fact following our rules, the failing is all yours'.
Agreed.