A Few Thoughts

[Cris]

Mystee,

Why would a fantasy need a replacement.

It is not that a fantasy needs a replacement but that religion fulfills a need for many people and as the need to believe in Gods falls by the wayside the support structures that had been put in place by religions are also likely to fail. That leaves a void that needs to be filled by other institutions.

But God is real and if you try to live without him you will need to find a replacement to fill that hole. Society will never be able to offer a suitable "replacement" for God.

I manage very nicely thank you. As do millions of others who have not created such a dependency for themselves.

ok back to this evolution thing. At first you said a need for comfort was bred into us by evolution in order to encourage procreation. Now you are saying evolution will breed it out of us. How is this possible?

Sorry, I jumped a few steps that I have explained elsewhere. As we gain control of our genetic structures and begin to enhance ourselves we will have created self-directed evolution. One of the top priority enhancements will almost certainly be an increase in intelligence and ability to think more clearly and consequently there would be less of a dependence on emotions. An increase in reasoned thinking and fewer emotionalisms will significantly reduce the need for the comfort factor of religion.

If evolution is real and what you say is true, than it is working against itself and will destroy itself.

Many species have become extinct because they did not evolve to adapt to changing circumstances. There is no guarantee that ‘random’ (undirected) evolutionary changes will result in our ultimate survival.

Or there's the other alternative. That it is not real.

That isn’t an option since Evolution has occurred, it is fact.

You say God is something man made up to feel comforted. In the same way can you see that evolution was made up by man to comfort him because he will never understand the basics of life without God.

Nice try but Evolution is not something that is optional. I suggest you read some basics on evolution before you dig a deeper hole for yourself – try – http://www.talkorigins.org and specifically the article that helps explain the differences between the factual parts of evolution and the theoretical parts - http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/evolution-fact.html

Yes something’s are still seen as wrong, but things like living together before marriage, sex before marriage, and homosexuality are all acceptable in today's society. When a country has no laws it is nothing but chaos. Our country is slowly heading in that direction. Yes it is good to promote acceptance for the people caught in these sins, but promoting the act itself will only cause trouble.

There is a lot that could be discussed here, but not right now. What you are largely criticizing are greater personal freedoms, an action typical of authoritarian and tyrannical institutions that has been the hallmark of Christianity for the majority of its existence.

And who's to say evolution isn't the fantasy. It is still a THEORY. Not truth. Not proven. Not real. When impressionable young children are being deceived by the ones they respect, change is needed.

And I think that is why it is good that religious prayer is not allowed in state schools. The removal from ‘under god’ in the pledge of allegiance should also be removed a soon as possible, so that impressionable young children are not led to believe that fantasies are true. But it also doesn’t help that people like yourself who might have some say in how children are educated are also ignorant about how science operates and especially about the truth of evolution. I sincerely hope you take time to read the talkorigins website since you are very likely to be criticized again here if you don’t know what you are talking about.

We are taught that what we hear in shcool is true, but evolution, a THEORY, is taught as truth all over America. That's wrong.

So get your own facts straight first.

As for religion being taught in school. It is ultamatly a bad idea. Yes even if it includes chrisianity. What we hear in a public school should be nothing but truth.

I agree, and religions exist, this is truth, that they all have a wide variety of different beliefs is also true. That they fight against each other and have been the cause of wars and conflict is also true. Why are you afraid of truth?

Even if you include christianity teaching many religions in one class only leads to confusion and a feeling that none are correct because they are so conflicting.

But they do all conflict, that is the truth. Why shouldn’t school children learn these things?

Such a class only pulls people from religion all together.

Or educates them about the true irrational nature of religion. It is therefore good that they reject irrationalism.

I've been in a class like that. In fact I became a christian about half way through it. If parents want their children to learn about religion they should send them to church or a private religious school; not public school.

You are confusing the teaching of facts about religion versus the indoctrination of young minds into a particular religion.

You sound particularly confused by this. A church, temple, synagogue, etc, will teach what they believe and present it as if it was truth, whether it is true or not. Teaching comparative religion in school objectively teaches the principles behind each religion so that students can make informed choices and understand the impact of religions in society.

 

[Ladybug]

I still think that some of you are under the influence of major religions, even if you claim not to believe. You see, they WANT you to think that there are huge differences between them. That way you have to choose one or another. If you are in their church listening to them, chances are good you wen't "stray". They need your money in their coffers. This is, by the way, one of the major reasons the druidic religions were discredited, due to the fact that they practiced wherever they deemed appropriate.
If, however, you take a look at the basic underlying tenants of most of the non-extremist major religions (I say most only because I have not studied every one of them in depth), you will find they are all teaching relatively the same things. The golden rule is a prime example. "Do unto others..." It's the same thing as "An it harm none, do what thou will" (only harming none goes a little more in depth). It's only some of the propaganda that is different. Many of the stories, including the resurrection story, by the way, are even the same. So how can you say that they are all so different? The only differences come from the religious leaders down through the years.
An example of this is the Catholic church forbidding the priests to marry. That did not happen until a Pope got caught in bed and chastised for it. He said, "If I can't, neither will anyone else."
As far as evolution goes, yes it has been documented in lesser animals. But has it been proven 100% for humans? Last I heard, there was still a missing link.
And I don't think that we will breed the need for religion out of us. On the contrary, I think the more that science tells us that we are not special and unique, the more that we will need to feel that we are, thus the more that we will need to believe in a power higher than us.
Is it so difficult to believe that there is something out there more advanced than we are? How many of you believe in UFOs? If they exist, then there are creatures that are more advanced technologically. So why not corporeally?

 

[SnakeLord]

Santa is a fantasy

Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!

 

[Cris]

Ladybug,

As far as evolution goes, yes it has been documented in lesser animals. But has it been proven 100% for humans? Last I heard, there was still a missing link.

It is less of a missing link as a missing piece of a jigsaw puzzle. The rest of the puzzle can be seen clearly and we know what the missing piece should look like, it is primarily a matter of finding it.

The following chart shows the evolutionary stages that led to Homo-Sapiens and it shows the most recent steps that led to us and then at about 2 million years ago there is a doubt as to how that step occurred. But see for yourself. There is no doubt that we evolved from simpler organisms the doubt is which path was taken.

http://www.mnh.si.edu/anthro/humanorigins/ha/a_tree.html

 

[Mystee]

Originally posted by Cris
Mystee,
It is not that a fantasy needs a replacement but that religion fulfills a need for many people

Why do you think it fulfills a need? If we have a need to know something greater than ourselves why is it so hard to believe something greater put that need in us?

I manage very nicely thank you. As do millions of others who have not created such a dependency for themselves.

1Corinthians 1:18-19
18For the message of the cross if foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. 19For it is written: "I will destroy the wisdom of the wise; the intelligence of the inteligent I will frustrate." 20 Where is the wise man? where is the scholar? where is the philosipher of this age? Has God not made foolish the wisdom of this world?
....
25 For the foolishness of God is wiser than a man's wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than a man's strength.

By what standards are you managing? The worlds?

Sorry, I jumped a few steps that I have explained elsewhere. As we gain control of our genetic structures and begin to enhance ourselves we will have created self-directed evolution. One of the top priority enhancements will almost certainly be an increase in intelligence and ability to think more clearly and consequently there would be less of a dependence on emotions. An increase in reasoned thinking and fewer emotionalisms will significantly reduce the need for the comfort factor of religion.

So because you feel there is little need for emotions you are sure evolution will breed emotions out of us? Who are you to say emotions are unnecisary? Do you have a direct link with 'the spirit of evolution' that you know it's next move? If evolution were true there would be no way of predicting what would be breed out next. You can therefor have no security in your beliefs. For all you know mammals could become obsolete in your life time and we could all go extinct. How could you even trust something like that let alone believe it is true?

That isn’t an option since Evolution has occurred, it is fact.

I could go deeper into this, but I think it would end up getting into playing head games and stating 'facts' that don't exist, so for now I'm going to leave this subject alone. Maybe some other time on some other thread.

And I think that is why it is good that religious prayer is not allowed in state schools. The removal from ‘under god’ in the pledge of allegiance should also be removed a soon as possible, so that impressionable young children are not led to believe that fantasies are true. But it also doesn’t help that people like yourself who might have some say in how children are educated are also ignorant about how science operates and especially about the truth of evolution. I sincerely hope you take time to read the talkorigins website since you are very likely to be criticized again here if you don’t know what you are talking about.

Ok the whole school thing was purly opinion. I would prefer not to defend my opinions when I could defend what I know is true. I was speaking only from experience and nothing you could say would change my mind, so I wouldn't like to continue this discussion.

I agree, and religions exist, this is truth, that they all have a wide variety of different beliefs is also true. That they fight against each other and have been the cause of wars and conflict is also true. Why are you afraid of truth?
But they do all conflict, that is the truth. Why shouldn’t school children learn these things?
Or educates them about the true irrational nature of religion. It is therefore good that they reject irrationalism.
You are confusing the teaching of facts about religion versus the indoctrination of young minds into a particular religion.

One last point about it though. The bias of the teacher involved would not allow what you have described.

In Christ's Love,

Mystee

 

[Jahiro]

GOD need not anyone to believe in himself for him to exist

GOD is past beliefs

Rather, GOD exists as he as always existed and will exist...

Without GOD, there is simply GOD

-Jahiro

 

[SnakeLord]

we could all go extinct. How could you even trust something like that let alone believe it is true?

Oh yeah! I read about that.... If i remember correctly it was revelations... well, something thereabouts. :bugeye: I agree with you totally, it's bloody ludicrous. People sitting on dragons etc etc? Damn lunatics.

I keep being told the end of the world is nigh by some mental patient christians who stand on our local street corner. I'm glad you're a smart one who doesnt buy into any of that nonsense.

----------------------------------------

P.S as it's an evolution vs creation kind of debate i wonder if you Mystee could tell me why people have goose pimples.. It just seems really daft to me that a creature without an abundance of hair would have an impulse to make hair stand on end at times of fear and cold.

 

[Jahiro]

Originally posted by SnakeLord
Oh yeah! I read about that.... If i remember correctly it was revelations... well, something thereabouts. :bugeye: I agree with you totally, it's bloody ludicrous. People sitting on dragons etc etc? Damn lunatics.

I keep being told the end of the world is nigh by some mental patient christians who stand on our local street corner. I'm glad you're a smart one who doesnt buy into any of that nonsense.

Snake, you seem like you have an open mind, but you have immediately ridden out the possibility that indeed we are in the end of days

That is ashame. You see, the world is going to be destroyed, and most of mankind with it. People have been prophecizing this for ages, and indeed when it doesn't come to pass, the date is moved back... but not so this time, for you will witness the end yourself

-Jahiro

P.S. The book of Revelations deserves enormous study if you're going to comment on it. Although I agree with you that xtianity is absurd as it exists today, and most of its inhabitants are "lunatics" as you call them, I don't believe referring to the reference of a Dragon in Revelations is evidence to support that xtians are loonies. Don't get me wrong though xtians, most of you still are. Sorry

 

[SnakeLord]

Snake, you seem like you have an open mind, but you have immediately ridden out the possibility that indeed we are in the end of days

Not at all. My post was actually just some mild sarcasm poked at a comment made by Mystee.

However if there is to be an end of days soon, evidence would suggest it would be by either the human hand or by natural global disaster as opposed to god. The reason i state such a thing is because more evidence is around to suggest that probability. Sure, there could very well be a big guy in the sky with his finger on the destruction trigger- but for now i'm slightly more concerned about the guys on our own planet with their fingers on the destruction trigger.

That is ashame. You see, the world is going to be destroyed, and most of mankind with it.

I would concede that it's a somewhat fair assumption to state this world and all on it will eventually cease to be.

People have been prophecizing this for ages

Even Mildred Watson, my next door neighbour has made a prediction about the end of the world. What am i saying, even her pet cat has made a prediction about the end of the world. What i'm trying to say is "who hasn't?"

Every single prophecy to date has been nonsense. All of them share something in common: they're based not on evidence or any relevant data, but instead the fears of man, and the ill informed preaching of idiots.

When a prophecy falls flat on its face, someone jumps to it's defence with the most outrageously ridiculous claims, (even more ridiculous than the prophecy itself). As an example:

I spoke about jesus's prophecy concerning the end of days, which would happen during the lives of the people at that time.

Jenya told me jesus was in fact talking to fig trees and not humans....

All this based on evidence that jesus was standing in an olive field at the time and felt like using a fig tree analogy during his speech. "learn a lesson from the fig tree..." Well am i blind.... it's obvious he's telling a fig tree to learn a lesson from a fig tree..

When it suits them, an analogy is no longer an analogy, instead some lunatics version of absolute fact.

There will be a billion more prophecies and a billion more prophecies that turn out to be duds.

but not so this time, for you will witness the end yourself

The end will arrive when i die, not a moment sooner. The same can be said for every single person.

But for the sake of argument, please get into some details over why i will witness this supposed "end", assuming you didn't mean it in the context i used. Do you have any relevant data/evidence to suggest this end? If not, you're added to the gigantic list of end of world prophecy makers and stored somewhere in the attic.

P.S. The book of Revelations deserves enormous study if you're going to comment on it. Although I agree with you that xtianity is absurd as it exists today, and most of its inhabitants are "lunatics" as you call them, I don't believe referring to the reference of a Dragon in Revelations is evidence to support that xtians are loonies.

As per my first response to you, the post was made as some mild sarcasm to Mystee, not a debate on revelations. The lunatic part is my own personal opinion and does not require any mention of dragons for me to class them as such. Yes, it's stereotypical. I'll repent later.

 

[Jahiro]

Originally posted by SnakeLord
Not at all. My post was actually just some mild sarcasm poked at a comment made by Mystee.

However if there is to be an end of days soon, evidence would suggest it would be by either the human hand or by natural global disaster as opposed to god. The reason i state such a thing is because more evidence is around to suggest that probability. Sure, there could very well be a big guy in the sky with his finger on the destruction trigger- but for now i'm slightly more concerned about the guys on our own planet with their fingers on the destruction trigger

For some of us, Natural global disaster is by GOD. Natural itself can suggest GOD for many. That is what I was saying really... basically, if we were to have a "natural" worldwide earthquake, which destroyed most of the earth (like the one spoken about in revelation) and its inhabitants, you could naturally argue (joke?) that GOD was behind such a thing, or that it was a natural event (disregarding GOD) of global porportion. And yes, I agree about the concern of many on the "destruction trigger" with a human hand right now. The thing is, the true destruction and ultimate cleansing of the earth is through GOD, not man. It may be said that man brought about such a thing, though. But when you share a belief that man has the spirit of GOD within him, and GOD controls all things and moves all things, then it can be understood that even GOD would be behind any and every event which takes place-ever. But that depends on one's level or point of perception.

I would concede that it's a somewhat fair assumption to state this world and all on it will eventually cease to be.

Even Mildred Watson, my next door neighbour has made a prediction about the end of the world. What am i saying, even her pet cat has made a prediction about the end of the world. What i'm trying to say is "who hasn't?"

Actually there are probably more people who haven't made a prediction about the end of the world than there are who have, but thats an assumption too. Regardless, it's not as many as you are suggesting--that is, there arent as many people who claim to be prophets or speak in the NAME OF GOD which is the real test of a prophet, at least by the standards I judge by.

Every single prophecy to date has been nonsense. All of them share something in common: they're based not on evidence or any relevant data, but instead the fears of man, and the ill informed preaching of idiots.

I disagree. If you can prove every SINGLE PROPHECY to date by anyone has been nonsense, then you can state such an absurd statement. So when Nostradamus wrote of a HISTLER and referenced Germany you think that was by chance? You give no credence at ALL to such a thing? An all important thing in PROPHECY is to understand what PROPHECY is. You have much research into the subject if you wish to start speaking about a thing, that is, the history and nature of prophecy. To be clear, if you judge ALL prophecy by a LITERAL criteria, you will find many prophecies by many seers to not be True. However, still there are some very literal and very exact prophecies, and I just mentioned HISTLER because that will just start you off on researching one such thing. We can get into others later. SOLLOG has many, but his are way advanced and most are quite allegorical, although again he has some more literal hits. As for prophecy not being based on relevant data, I would say the vast majority of it isnt, because PROPHECY itself is defined as:
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=prophecy
An inspired utterance of a prophet, viewed as a revelation of divine will.
A prediction of the future, made under divine inspiration.

However, that doesn't mean all prophecy falls under the same categorization. For instance, a weatherman forecasts and predicts the weather... He has faith in his prediction, due to the science of what he studies. Prophecy, in some instances, is quite similar. Although to sum it up, the whole of prophecy comes from inspiration through a divine means, ie, GOD. So you will probably not find "relevant data" in this field because it requires little, if any. Although if you look hard, some do just this thing. Oh, and yes, many predictions center around the fears of mankind. Mankind does not listen nor change unless faced with tragedy. Predicting something like 9/11 is far more warrant and reason for a call to repentance than predicting a peace agreement. And besides, we happen to live in a generation where the future consists of many many catastrophic events and loss of life. It's just the way it goes, Snake. But yes, many prophecies fail, that is for sure...

When a prophecy falls flat on its face, someone jumps to it's defence with the most outrageously ridiculous claims, (even more ridiculous than the prophecy itself). As an example:

I spoke about jesus's prophecy concerning the end of days, which would happen during the lives of the people at that time.

Jenya told me jesus was in fact talking to fig trees and not humans....

All this based on evidence that jesus was standing in an olive field at the time and felt like using a fig tree analogy during his speech. "learn a lesson from the fig tree..." Well am i blind.... it's obvious he's telling a fig tree to learn a lesson from a fig tree..

Suggestion: Jenya is mistaken ?
What youre referencing does have different interpretations, and as i already stated prophecies in general are subject to interpretation (many of them). For this particular prophecy, it can be argued (and much more logically stated than Jenya) that Jesus was referring to those specific people being alive when the end of days took place due to them being reincarnated back on the earth at that time. Logical sense. Is it the correct interpretation? maybe, maybe not. Anyways, Jesus did say he comes quickly, and well damn--2000 years isn't quick. So i'm sure many back then were pretty pissed off when they didn't witness the 2nd coming. A failed prophecy? Perhaps. But it can be said, "one day with the Lord is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day" (II Peter 3:8). So it comes down to interpretation, and facts behind interpretation.

When it suits them, an analogy is no longer an analogy, instead some lunatics version of absolute fact.

There will be a billion more prophecies and a billion more prophecies that turn out to be duds.

Not quite sure about that many... but yeah, alot. But some hit, you just choose not to look deep enough. Typical of a skeptic, even though skepticism is good-to a degree.

The end will arrive when i die, not a moment sooner. The same can be said for every single person

You are sure about this? I can assure you, you will eat those words. You will die, this is true... but your death will occur during the end of times, which is indeed in this generation. But you're right, your end may very well occur during the third world war etc--but to me, this is all part of the end. Besides, I never said the end was pinpointed to one day. It is a gradual thing...

But for the sake of argument, please get into some details over why i will witness this supposed "end", assuming you didn't mean it in the context i used. Do you have any relevant data/evidence to suggest this end? If not, you're added to the gigantic list of end of world prophecy makers and stored somewhere in the attic.

Yes, a good amount. For instance, I spent nearly 1.5 years studying the writings of SOLLOG from as open-minded as I could be. I concluded he can and does see and know detailed information of the future. From establishing this fact through my research into his prophetic ability, I can conclude with some certainty that what he states about the coming years has more validity than what most can state using guesswork. It is just logical. Can i present to you how I arrived at that conclusion, ie all my research? No. That is for the individual to accomplish himself. But I could start you on your way. I mean, for instance--SOLLOG has a prophecy about earthquakes striking both LA and NYC at near the same time... (See: www.sollog.com/prophecies/thefinalsign.txt)
If this does occur, and in the same prophecy it states this is before nuclear terrorism is to take place, well this is all the reason to believe that alot of mankind is about to die. Reason enough for the end? Probably not, unless you seek further. Oh, and where is your relevant data to tell me it isn't the end? Disprove SOLLOG, start with him, since he is the True Prophet of this age. Oh, and do you really expect me to believe you have a list in your attic full of end of the world prophecy makers? C'mon

As per my first response to you, the post was made as some mild sarcasm to Mystee, not a debate on revelations. The lunatic part is my own personal opinion and does not require any mention of dragons for me to class them as such. Yes, it's stereotypical. I'll repent later.

Sounds good to me

-Jahiro

 

[Jan Ardena]

Originally posted by =SputniK-CL=

I certainly know that, though the point is religion sais youll burn in hell if you do not accept its supposed truth, God exists, as absolute truth. I cannot accept this.

Where does it say this?

Please be sure of this fact. Its no longer in any reasonable dispute. From every field of science comes proof of evolution. Please....use your common sense.

So you believe the theory of evolution to be a fact, or evolution?

If everyone would live according to this, the world would be a better place, better than your bible could ever make.

What kind of world do you think the bible makes, and how exactly does it make it so?

Could you prove to me we are anything but flesh?

Yes. You are now reading my thought energy and you or anyone may well be able to read it long after I (my flesh) has left this world.

Love

Jan Ardena.

 

[Cris]

Mystee,

It is not that a fantasy needs a replacement but that religion fulfills a need for many people

Why do you think it fulfills a need? If we have a need to know something greater than ourselves why is it so hard to believe something greater put that need in us?

In the same way that as children we are conditioned to be dependent on our parents so then as we become adults many remember that feeling of security and love they gained from their parents. Transferring that idea to a supreme being where they can continue with those feelings of comfort is basic psychology.

The indication of true maturity is to recognize that wishing for something greater is only a wish and one must move on and learn independence.

1Corinthians 1:18-19
18For the message of the cross if foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. 19For it is written: "I will destroy the wisdom of the wise; the intelligence of the inteligent I will frustrate." 20 Where is the wise man? where is the scholar? where is the philosipher of this age? Has God not made foolish the wisdom of this world?
....
25 For the foolishness of God is wiser than a man's wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than a man's strength.

Any intelligent opponent will do its best to destroy the most powerful weapon of its adversary and at the same time lift the morale of its troops. The use of propaganda such as your quotes is the tactic of the desperate. The early creators of Christianity knew very well that their real opposition to their fantasies would come from those who could see through the fiction, i.e. those who could think and reason for themselves. They knew they had to do everything to discredit free thought and logical reasoning since they knew their ideas were fraudulent.

So because you feel there is little need for emotions you are sure evolution will breed emotions out of us? Who are you to say emotions are unnecisary? Do you have a direct link with 'the spirit of evolution' that you know it's next move?

You seem to be crediting evolution with some form of self aware intelligence, it isn’t like that. Up until now evolution has been a long and undirected process, working purely based on the attractive forces of widely scattered elements. The result has been the beginnings of self aware intelligence in the form of humans. With our rapidly increasing technology we are beginning to reverse engineer the long chain of mutations and adaptations that led to our existence. From that we are beginning to see that we can make the next changes in our evolution according to our desire rather than wait for further widely spaced favorable mutations. As a technologist I would be one that would choose to limit the influence of emotions in the next step in human evolution. It is not that I can foresee what evolution will do it is more that I and others like me will shape future evolution to our own needs.

If evolution were true there would be no way of predicting what would be breed out next. You can therefor have no security in your beliefs. For all you know mammals could become obsolete in your life time and we could all go extinct. How could you even trust something like that let alone believe it is true?

Answered above. We simply direct our own evolution.

In Christ's Love,

Wishing me the love of a fantasy is an insult. Why do you send insults? Isn’t that against your religion?

 

[SnakeLord]

For some of us, Natural global disaster is by GOD....

Ok, let's look at an example:

There's a big earthquake somewhere.... It destroys a lot.

Now, all evidence shows the cause as being the movement of tectonic plates/collision of tectonic plates etc.

Anyone can add the sentence: "god moved the tectonic plates." But the simple fact would remain that it was down to the movement of tectonic plates. Why add an unseen, evidence-less variable at the end? Just for posperity?

Earthquake - tectonic plates moved and caused earthquake - god made the tectonic plates move...

As you can see, the final addition has no place in the description. It's an addon that is freely attributable to anything/anyone:

Earthquake- tectonic plates moved and caused earthquake- a big purple unicorn with yellow spots made the tectonic plates move.

Thus a big natural disaster can be by anything anyone wants it to be by.

that is, there arent as many people who claim to be prophets or speak in the NAME OF GOD which is the real test of a prophet, at least by the standards I judge by.

So because mildred doesnt speak in the name of god, she doesn't have the right to make a claim to the end of the world?

I disagree. If you can prove every SINGLE PROPHECY to date by anyone has been nonsense, then you can state such an absurd statement.

I'm sorry, were we discussing end of the world of every single prophecy ever made in the entirety of human existence?

I apologise for assuming you'd actually understand i was talking with releveance to the current topic, so i will recap just for you:

Every single prophecy to date, (REGARDING END OF THE WORLD), has turned out to be nonsense. I can safely make that claim.

Again, my apologies it slipped past you.

What youre referencing does have different interpretations,

Interpretations are fine if based upon evidence and not wild leaps of faith.

Not quite sure about that many... but yeah, alot. But some hit, you just choose not to look deep enough. Typical of a skeptic, even though skepticism is good-to a degree

What's that all about? I didn't once claim nobody is able to make a correct prophecy, i didn't say i was skeptical about prophetic ability, i simply stated thus far the world is still intact, and any prophecy stating it would have gone by now was a dud. I really don't think you can disagree with that. You state i'm not looking deep enough, i think you're looking too deep. But by all means, disagree with my statement if you so desire.

You are sure about this?

I'll be sure when i'm dead- one way or the other. There is currently no evidence to suggest i wont 'end' when i die. Sure, i might float off to valhalla or the pearly gates but my physical being will sit in the ground and feed the maggots. I'm sure i can find some evidence to suggest that as being a reality.

I can assure you, you will eat those words.

Firstly, words cannot be eaten, (aside from alphabetti spaghetti), secondly, what makes you think you can assure me of anything more than i can assure you?

but your death will occur during the end of times, which is indeed in this generation.

Ok, that's fair enough but.... Kindly tell me why your particular prophecy has any more credibility than any others. I'm not the type of person who can just believe something because you happen to say so. If you have anything of worth to offer with your claims then please, bring it on.

Besides, I never said the end was pinpointed to one day. It is a gradual thing...

So.... sometime in this generation, but no specific day? Ok, thnx for the warning

For instance, I spent nearly 1.5 years studying the writings of SOLLOG from as open-minded as I could be. I concluded he can and does see and know detailed information of the future.

So did nostradamus. Still, he was very often wrong. Lily the clairvoyant down the road is also awesome- unfortunately it's not evidence that she can accurately predict the end of the world. Only time will tell. Just out of curiosity though, how many times has Sollog won the lottery, saved people from burning buildings, stopped tragedies from occuring etc? Yes, i could go read all about it on his website, undoubtedly, but a quick summary from you would be nice.

SOLLOG has a prophecy about earthquakes striking both LA and NYC at near the same time...

How can that be cited as evidence if it hasn't even happened yet? Sorry, but it can't. Secondly what does "near same time" mean? Does that allow for a week? a month? a century? Furthermore did he give a date or is he just waiting for the next earthquake to appear in LA, (Something that isn't exactly a rarity). Finally did he state a particulat seismic force? Or can it be like a simple mini-earthquake that barely even registers on the richter scale?

Actually, no need for the above now.... i just used that link, it certainly gave me a laugh. Aside from the absurd use of caps in order to grasp for some kind of attention, im sure he's as serious as all the other "living word of god almighty" people. The 3, "I AM", with some desperate grapple for fame, and to lay his name into some kind of history book is sweet, but pointless if we're all going to be nuked.

Anyway, back to seriousness.... can you give me some evidence please. Firstly: his past successes, with a list of past failures so i can draw an average % prophetic ability rate, any medical documentation is also prevalent. Many seem to overlook the importance of that, but i'm sure you will understand. Surely everyone is aware we have crackpots on this planet. Perhaps also some history regarding this individual. Has he always had the gift? What past jobs has he had, etc etc.

Thanks in advance.

Oh, and where is your relevant data to tell me it isn't the end?

If i must, i will. With digging i'm sure i can find statistical analysis from a huge variety of sciences stating the shape of our planet. We can look at the number of lunatics in the world who have the ability to cause extreme damage to the planet and so on and so forth... However....

I'm not the one claiming we're all about to die, and thus the burden of evidence lies on your shoulders, not mine. Once you have provided the details i asked for, we can continue. But do not fear, i wont just leave you with the task of providing data. I too will provide whatever i can that will help. Anyway, it's your move.

Disprove SOLLOG, start with him, since he is the True Prophet of this age.

Firstly i would require more data. I could possibly provide a basic summary but it would be lacking without more information. You could always ask him to contact my office anytime between 9 and 6, and an appointment will be made for him. However, failing that, just provide any/all of the details i asked for and we can proceed from there.

I'm not inclined to calling people frauds. However, if they expect to be taken seriously by everyone, they are in a position where they need to backup their words. We all have the ability to talk, and we all have the ability to talk shit. A man who is perfectly legit, and "kosher", need never worry by providing details or by showing just how credible he actually is.

Oh, and do you really expect me to believe you have a list in your attic full of end of the world prophecy makers? C'mon

Admittedly it was a bit over the top. However, i do have a good bunch of notes containing modern day people who predict the end of the world.

 

[Ladybug]

Boy, for nobody being wrong, you all are sure trying to make everyone else wrong!!

No, the statement God caused the tectonic plates to shift which caused the earthquake does not need to be there at all. But does that make it a false statement?

As far as the end of the world stuff goes, we aren't going to really know for sure until it happens, so why worry? If it's going to happen, it'll happen regardless of what you and I do to try to stop it.

One thing, though. Is it just me, or does it seem to anyone else that G.W. Bush distinctly resembles the AntiChrist?

 

[SnakeLord]

No, the statement God caused the tectonic plates to shift which caused the earthquake does not need to be there at all. But does that make it a false statement?

Don't remember saying it was instantly "false", just not needed through the evidence present. Without any requirement to provide evidence you can state it was a purple unicorn with yellow spots, (i've now said this twice, did you bother reading my former post). Just because it could be a purple unicorn with yellow spots would you entertain the idea if there is nothing to suggest it as being a reality?

As far as the end of the world stuff goes, we aren't going to really know for sure until it happens, so why worry?

Well... people discuss things. They just like talking to each other i guess. I don't think worry plays a part, more like: interest.

 

[Judge Shmales]

Sure alot of people out there "sure" that God doesn't exist...

Got any proof?

Seems the best you could say is I believe God doesn't exist based on such and such evidence....

Also, you evolutionists out there:

Don't you realize that the General Theory of Evolution is a theory that can never be proven? It's an inference of past events based on evidence. It's a model. Calling it a fact does not make it a fact.

Also, when you all talk about evolution in the general sense, are you including abiogenesis (life from non-living chemicals), or is that a separate issue?

Regards,

J

 

[Cris]

Hi Judge,

Welcome to sciforums.

Sure alot of people out there "sure" that God doesn't exist...

Got any proof?

What’s your proof that Santa doesn’t exist? It’s a credibility issue.

Seems the best you could say is I believe God doesn't exist based on such and such evidence....

And fairies, and leprechauns; together with gods, are all man made fantasies, and all equally valueless.

Also, you evolutionists out there:

Don't you realize that the General Theory of Evolution is a theory that can never be proven? It's an inference of past events based on evidence. It's a model. Calling it a fact does not make it a fact.

Didn’t know there was a GTE, do you have a web reference. Evolution isn’t a single theory. Evolution is a combination of facts and a number of theories that attempt to explain the facts. Evolution has occurred, how it occurred is the subject of evolutionary theories. For more details see –

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/evolution-fact.html

Also, when you all talk about evolution in the general sense, are you including abiogenesis (life from non-living chemicals), or is that a separate issue?

Yup Abiogenesis is a separate theory although if evolution is considered an extremely long line of dots going from the more complex life down to the simplest then abiogenesis is very obviously the next dot in the series. Ever take an IQ test where you have to identify the next shape in a series? You don’t need to be a genius to spot abiogenesis as the start of life.

 

[ConsequentAtheist]

Originally posted by Judge Shmales
Sure alot of people out there "sure" that God doesn't exist...

Really? Here? Who, specifically? Perhaps you could quote them.

Originally posted by Judge Shmales
Got any proof?

No. No 'proof' of God nor of God(s). No 'proof' of YHWH, Maat, Ba'al, Nut, Thor, or any of the rest. Neither do I have 'proof' of the non-existence of the Daoine Sidhe, the Unicorn, the Yeti, Nessie, Alien Abductions, and the occassional Mermaid. There is a near unbounded class of speculative fantasies and foolishness equally impossible to disprove, and every such idiocy has (or had) its share of advocates.

Originally posted by Judge Shmales
Seems the best you could say is I believe God doesn't exist based on such and such evidence....

No. It only seems that way. Perhaps you're just not very bright.

Originally posted by Judge Shmales
Also, you evolutionists out there:

Yes?

Originally posted by Judge Shmales
Don't you realize that the General Theory of Evolution is a theory that can never be proven?

See Proof and Science.

Originally posted by Judge Shmales
It's an inference of past events based on evidence.

So is astrophysics. Therefore?

Originally posted by Judge Shmales
It's a model.

Science models reality? Now [u[there's[/u] an underwhelming disclosure.

Originally posted by Judge Shmales
Calling it a fact does not make it a fact.

OK.

Originally posted by Judge Shmales
Also, when you all talk about evolution in the general sense, are you including abiogenesis (life from non-living chemicals), or is that a separate issue?

Define "non-living chemicals".

 

[Mystee]

Originally posted by SnakeLord
Oh yeah! I read about that.... If i remember correctly it was revelations... well, something thereabouts. :bugeye: I agree with you totally, it's bloody ludicrous. People sitting on dragons etc etc? Damn lunatics.

I keep being told the end of the world is nigh by some mental patient christians who stand on our local street corner. I'm glad you're a smart one who doesnt buy into any of that nonsense.

Relilation doesn't speak of death for all man kind rather eternity far ever man who lived and currently lives.

----------------------------------------

P.S as it's an evolution vs creation kind of debate i wonder if you Mystee could tell me why people have goose pimples.. It just seems really daft to me that a creature without an abundance of hair would have an impulse to make hair stand on end at times of fear and cold.

Goose bumps really don't have much to do with hair standing on end it is more for when we are cold. By curling our skin we have less surface area for heat to escape. (Or so I've been told.)

Christ's Love,

Mystee

 

[Ladybug]

You all seem to be quite positive that you alone know the unknowable, unless I'm very much mistaken. I think the discussion I've started regarding this topic is truly moot.
Sorry about that. Please disregard everything......everywhere. It won't happen again, I promise. Consider this yet another covenant, kind of like that whole rainbow thing. Remember?
My own fault really. Every time humans learn something new, they develop a superiority complex, and assume everyone else is "THE UNINITIATED!". Been meaning to fix that. Humility is the key, you see.

Yours in Spirit,
Ra, aka Sophia, aka Snu, aka Baphomet, aka Grand Architect of the Universe, aka Hapa-Pharoah, aka Baal, aka Dharmakaya, aka Kwannon, aka Shang Ti, aka Providence, aka Brahman, aka Allah, aka Hayyi, aka Kami, aka Hari, aka Ahura-Mazda, aka Ahriman, aka Bob...really, I could go on, but all the other names include the letter I haven't given you yet. Boy, once you get that, you'll all be as right as rain. It'll be in the sequel. Read on.
Sorry again.

PS Don't run with scissors...and call your mother. She worries about you.
PPPS It wouldn't kill you to sing occasionally, would it?
PPPPS Drive with assured clear distance, and rush hour will be a lot less frustrating. One car length for every 10 miles per hour.
PPPPPS See you Tuesday, Mike. Just won't use the hand rail......



<---Look, I can make a smile!