A Challenge
- Thread starter cyberia
- Start date
Sorry, but I didnt see this thread until now. Providing there will be no more crass ball jokes, I'll get going.
My personal view on homosexuality is that as long as its not harmful and not involving me then its fine with me.
I think that if I was led to christianity by God (assuming he exists) then IMHO its more likely that it is true than say something I was led away from.
Does god exist? I believe so. I have had a few spiritual experiences and a few series of "coincidences" that led me to believe this.
My personal view on homosexuality is that as long as its not harmful and not involving me then its fine with me.
I think that if I was led to christianity by God (assuming he exists) then IMHO its more likely that it is true than say something I was led away from.
Yes, maybe... anyway I have to thanks someone for my luck !
Men homosexuality is good while it's bad for women...
(I love women...)No, in fact I don't care. They can do what they want.
Of course... not ! (however I am ! I just don't know if Jesus was really a son of God, I mean a true one, or if he is one of the best known guru...)
The "true" religion is near Christianity : a love God with no "son that best known what his father said". Have you seen Stigmata ? The fact that God is in everyone is a great idea...
Where'd all the christians go??? Well, I'll have a crack at it
I believe that God does indeed exist. Not only have I had personal 'encounters' with God, and believe cause of that, I also believe because of the design of the universe. Looking at microbiiology, there's no WAY that this universe came into being totally randomly! there's definately a creator behind it.
On homosexuality, I'm not sure exactly where I stand. I have gay friends who are great people, but I definately dont like their lifestyle. I"m not sure if I'm totally against it or not, tho there are biblical passages that would suggest that it is wrong I'm not allowed to bring those into this discussion right now.
I believe that Jesus is the true and only way to get to God and heaven, I'm not saying christianity has all the answers or all the right answers, but I do believe that the basic christian beliefs are correct and true.
Re: Re: A Challenge
I don't mean to be confrontational, and I'm not going to get angry at you, but I really want to know what you mean when you say "I definately don't like their lifestyle". I hear this kind of thing a lot (especialy from christians) but haven't been able to pin them down on it yet.
For the purpose of my own enlightenment I'd be very greatful if you'd describe to me what you think a homosexual "lifestyle" is, and if your explanation does not make it glaringly obvious, I'd also like to know why you think it's your place to approve or dissaprove of it.
I don't mean to be confrontational, and I'm not going to get angry at you, but I really want to know what you mean when you say "I definately don't like their lifestyle". I hear this kind of thing a lot (especialy from christians) but haven't been able to pin them down on it yet.
For the purpose of my own enlightenment I'd be very greatful if you'd describe to me what you think a homosexual "lifestyle" is, and if your explanation does not make it glaringly obvious, I'd also like to know why you think it's your place to approve or dissaprove of it.
Re: Re: Re: A Challenge
K, when I say I dont like the lifestyle, I think what I'm saying is that I dont like the thought of two people of the same sex being in a marriage-like relationship, with that kind of love and physical connection. I must admit that I dont believe it is natural, i do think that most are not born as such (NOTE: I said MOST, not all). It just seems 'wrong' to me -- its the type of 'wrongness' feeling you might get when you are talking to someone and just feel that they're lying or something, I cant explain it. I think that its hard to pin people down when they make this statement because many people are using it to politely say they think homosexuality is wrong without drawing fire.
I think the homosexual 'lifestyle' is exatly the same as the heterosexual lifestyle, only its with people of the same sex, not the opposite sex.
I can approve and disapprove of anything and everything I want to, but I'm do not go around telling people 'what you're doing is wrong, cut it out' (unless its a very good friend who's screwing their life over with drugs or something)..........all i can/will ever say is 'yeah, i dont approve of that behaviour, but its totally up to you and i'll still be your friend no matter what you do'
K, when I say I dont like the lifestyle, I think what I'm saying is that I dont like the thought of two people of the same sex being in a marriage-like relationship, with that kind of love and physical connection. I must admit that I dont believe it is natural, i do think that most are not born as such (NOTE: I said MOST, not all). It just seems 'wrong' to me -- its the type of 'wrongness' feeling you might get when you are talking to someone and just feel that they're lying or something, I cant explain it. I think that its hard to pin people down when they make this statement because many people are using it to politely say they think homosexuality is wrong without drawing fire.
I think the homosexual 'lifestyle' is exatly the same as the heterosexual lifestyle, only its with people of the same sex, not the opposite sex.
I can approve and disapprove of anything and everything I want to, but I'm do not go around telling people 'what you're doing is wrong, cut it out' (unless its a very good friend who's screwing their life over with drugs or something)..........all i can/will ever say is 'yeah, i dont approve of that behaviour, but its totally up to you and i'll still be your friend no matter what you do'
Well I thank you for being honest about this.
As vaguely wrong as it may seem to you, though, it's important that you understand to a homosexual it feels very right. I could no more ask you to try to have a romantic relationship with someone of the same sex, than you could ask me to have one with someone of the opposite sex. Homosexuality is a sexual orientation, we don't chose to have these feelings toward members of the same sex, it's just what happens, and you're right as far as "Life style" goes, there may be some subcultural aspects with homosexuals that differ (But even then only with some indeviduals, and not all homosexuals) but for the most part we are pretty much just the same. Another thing that one must always always keep in mind, is that it's no one's place to say who someone can have a relationship with (when it is between consenting adults, of course). When it comes down to it, we're quite the same, with one farily arbitrary difference.
The reason I pay such attention to this issue, is that I'm missing out on a few things that I should be entitled to simply because those in power, have simmilar views that the "homosexual lifestyle" is wrong. It's a very sore subject.
As vaguely wrong as it may seem to you, though, it's important that you understand to a homosexual it feels very right. I could no more ask you to try to have a romantic relationship with someone of the same sex, than you could ask me to have one with someone of the opposite sex. Homosexuality is a sexual orientation, we don't chose to have these feelings toward members of the same sex, it's just what happens, and you're right as far as "Life style" goes, there may be some subcultural aspects with homosexuals that differ (But even then only with some indeviduals, and not all homosexuals) but for the most part we are pretty much just the same. Another thing that one must always always keep in mind, is that it's no one's place to say who someone can have a relationship with (when it is between consenting adults, of course). When it comes down to it, we're quite the same, with one farily arbitrary difference.
The reason I pay such attention to this issue, is that I'm missing out on a few things that I should be entitled to simply because those in power, have simmilar views that the "homosexual lifestyle" is wrong. It's a very sore subject.
DefSkeptic
Registered Senior Member
New Life-
First of all the universe is extremely complex, I dont think you or anyone else have near the qualifications to be so sure of its reasons/mode of existance. Microbiology is different from Cosmology. Life is the result of cumulative selection, not single step selection, so randomness can be taken out of the equation.
If you are taken aback by the complexity of some theories regarding the science of the universe, you'll get no comfort in the supposed 'simplicity' of a creator. The creator notion is subject to the same questions of the same complexity.
To say the universe is infinite is to say God is infinite. Both statements are equally puzzling. Is there a creator behind the creator? See what I mean? We know very little about the universe, so dont go around saying things such as "there's on WAY" and "there's definately a creator behind it" because your God does not explain away these trickly questions, and your lack of knowledge on cosmology obviously does not make you an authority on our universe.
First of all the universe is extremely complex, I dont think you or anyone else have near the qualifications to be so sure of its reasons/mode of existance. Microbiology is different from Cosmology. Life is the result of cumulative selection, not single step selection, so randomness can be taken out of the equation.
If you are taken aback by the complexity of some theories regarding the science of the universe, you'll get no comfort in the supposed 'simplicity' of a creator. The creator notion is subject to the same questions of the same complexity.
To say the universe is infinite is to say God is infinite. Both statements are equally puzzling. Is there a creator behind the creator? See what I mean? We know very little about the universe, so dont go around saying things such as "there's on WAY" and "there's definately a creator behind it" because your God does not explain away these trickly questions, and your lack of knowledge on cosmology obviously does not make you an authority on our universe.
DefSkeptic
Registered Senior Member
Edgar-
I didnt make a claim that suggested I knew the answer regarding existance. To make a claim, whether it be God or the like, is based on very little information and faulty logic. But it appears not many people can accept that we don't have a clue.
Remember there was a time when we thought the world was flat, that Zeus sat atop mt Olympus, the earth was the center of the universe, witches ran rampant in Salem, do I need to go on?
You know what told us whether these claims were ultimately true or false?......evidence. Chances are if there is no evidence to support a claim than maybe the claim is false?!?!?!
I didnt make a claim that suggested I knew the answer regarding existance. To make a claim, whether it be God or the like, is based on very little information and faulty logic. But it appears not many people can accept that we don't have a clue.
Remember there was a time when we thought the world was flat, that Zeus sat atop mt Olympus, the earth was the center of the universe, witches ran rampant in Salem, do I need to go on?
You know what told us whether these claims were ultimately true or false?......evidence. Chances are if there is no evidence to support a claim than maybe the claim is false?!?!?!
How do you know they aren't the one's that are right and you are the one that is wrong? You don't - neither side does. The only way to settle this argument once and for all is to prove without a shadow of a doubt that these things do or do not exist.
So far the existence of God/gods, fairies, dragons, elves, and the like has not been proven. Until such time as it is proven otherwise, it is merely a belief and nothing more than that imo. Perhaps it is time to reevaluate this concept of God et al - just like any other concept. You ask that your concept be accepted as truth by those of the science community and non-believers alike on faith alone? Is that good science? I don't think so. "Because the bible says" is not conclusive proof of anything - except for maybe how gullible people can be. The Bible is a book that makes some pretty extraordinary claims. If those claims are true than it should not be a problem to prove them to be true, no? You say you have "a dragon in your garage" now it is up to you to prove it. I don't think this can be stressed enough: "extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence."
Here is something to think about - some food for thought if you will:
Say your theory of God et al proves out to be true and God et al does exist, what then? How does that change things in your mind? If your theory of God et al proves out to be false, what then? How does that change things in your mind? What is it about the concept of God et al that causes you to cling to it so dearly? Promise of salvation? Eternal bliss? What? Rather than looking in a book --any book-- for answers perhaps you should be looking within.
I'm not saying that I have all the answers (tho looking back at my post it sure does sound like thats what i'm saying), but I believe there is a creator behind it all.
and of course none of us can ever know for sure while on this earth so why do we debate it??? i have my beliefs, you have yours.....neither of us are going to change the other's mind on sciforums so why do we bother? my guess is cause we like to be right
and of course none of us can ever know for sure while on this earth so why do we debate it??? i have my beliefs, you have yours.....neither of us are going to change the other's mind on sciforums so why do we bother? my guess is cause we like to be right
How long has the 'I'm right and you're not' fight been going on? Too long I think. What exactly is everyone fighting for? A belief system? Freedom to not have one? To fight over stuff like that seems pointless and absurd to me.
What defines what is 'right' or 'wrong' when it comes to personal beliefs anyway? What works for me might not work well for someone else and vice versa. In my mind that makes both ways right. To me spirituality is like going to the bathroom - it is a private affair.
What defines what is 'right' or 'wrong' when it comes to personal beliefs anyway? What works for me might not work well for someone else and vice versa. In my mind that makes both ways right. To me spirituality is like going to the bathroom - it is a private affair.
It is very unfortunate that this is the case. This "intuitive feeling" is infringing on the rights of many people who deserve better. This world would be a much better place if people adopted a "live and let live" attitude. I hope that some day soon homosexuals will have the same rights as anyone else.