A Challenge to Theists

BeHereNow said:
You suffer from the problems of most Atheists.
Your verification system has some large holes, flaws, fallacies.
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Who said I was an atheist?

jmpet said:
Anthropics. We mutually agree that reality exists, so therefore, there must be a God to create reality. Reality does not come from nothing- only nothing is nothing. If God does not exist, then reality would not exist.

I have firsthand experience that there is an afterlife- I had a near-death experience I don't want to get into.

God exists just as sure as you are here. God created reality for His own reasons- probably for company from other sentient life forms like Him.

I am pretty firm in my belief in God.
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Hmmm you're simply filling the void of lack of knowledge with a god.

Mind Over Matter said:
Alright, let's turn tables....

Athiests: Prove that God dosen't exist

No emotional answers are allowed. Nine examples of emotional answers:

God dosen't exist because there is evil/suffering/death.
God dosen't exist because believers are hypocrites.
God dosen't exist because believers can't prove God exists.
God dosen't exist because I have never seen or felt God.
God dosen't exist because my prayers aren't answered.
God dosen't exist because Christians killed people in the Inquisition/Crusade/ancient time.
God dosen't exist because the Bible is man-made/corrupted.
God dosen't exist because God killed people in the Bible.
God dosen't exist because Jesus is not God.

Besides emotional answers, you are free to answer any way you wish.
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First and foremost, most atheists I know don't say there is not a god. They don't make the affirmation one way or another. They simply say there is no proof of a god so I don't believe in god. Belief does not equal facts.

S.A.M. said:
So you aim to debate your lack of faith with liars and mentally disturbed individuals because?
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I never said I wanted to debate. I simply want proof. Going back to my earlier statement. Theists think they KNOW god exists. If you believe without a doubt that god exists, provide evidence that it does. I never said god does or does not exist. I don't know either way. But I am curious as to why certain people do, not only believe, but affirm without question or doubt that god exists.

Signal said:
Ha! :xctd:


I wonder what happened to him, though. Not so long ago he was all lovey-dovey "I believe in God and love and peace" - and now it's as if he has become someone else.
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Nope, I'm still the same person, just with a renewed frustration as to why theists call god a fact without any proof.
 
Boy.

1. It is clear you are "non-religious" therefore it doesent matter if your "athiest", "agnostic" or whatever label you conform to. The fact is : your attacking religious thinking because it cannot be proven under the scope of emperical evidence. Understand this: Religion and "the big bang" theory or whatever theory you believe in regarding our origin - fundamentally REQUIRES BLIND FAITH. Unless you understand things in there entirety or even partially don't make claims with such certainty.

I ask you to prove your assertion that god does not exist.

Evidence in its broadest sense includes everything that is used to determine or demonstrate the truth of an assertion

Can you do this?

NO
 
Signal said:
And the human sense of self is an illusion, a mere epiphenomenon?
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Particles are real, and so all of the composites made of them are real as well, and whatever effects become of them. There are brain areas that identify the self as opposed to what is not. These are the areas that can be mostly quieted by meditation, miminalizing the notion of the self and also its boundaries. You might then feel one with the cosmos it there is any 'you' left to notice. This is only a neurological effect and has been measured in trained Buddhist monks.


And, a yes to ex nihilo. Particles pop in and out of existence all the time in the quantum mechanical realm.


So it is that science has explanations whereas the religious have none.
 
Clearly, either the basic stuff was around forever or it was created. No other choices.

There are problems with original stuff having been around forever, such as what could have determined its total amount, as well as its individual properties, leaving this ‘solution’ very incomplete, and invariably wrong because it is not complete.

So, the basis stuff has to be created, yet there is nothing to make it of. To confirm what we already know that we will see, we note such things as that the basics are of opposite charge and of opposite matter/anti-matter.

The prime mover of the vacuum has been found. Done. Only more details remain to be investigated, but now we know better how to look for them. Otherwise, one could have a lot of trouble comprehending the cosmos without first knowing why and how it exists.

As we then move upward to more complexity, all is then explained via chemistry, physics, evolution, and the rest of the sciences.
 
420Joey said:
Boy.

1. It is clear you are "non-religious" therefore it doesent matter if your "athiest", "agnostic" or whatever label you conform to. The fact is : your attacking religious thinking because it cannot be proven under the scope of emperical evidence. Understand this: Religion and "the big bang" theory or whatever theory you believe in regarding our origin - fundamentally REQUIRES BLIND FAITH. Unless you understand things in there entirety or even partially don't make claims with such certainty.

I ask you to prove your assertion that god does not exist.

Evidence in its broadest sense includes everything that is used to determine or demonstrate the truth of an assertion

Can you do this?

NO
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This post of yours was entirely worthless in this discussion.

I'm only going to say this one last time. I'm not saying god does or does not exist. I could, for all intensive purposes, could be Christian, Muslim, Hindu or anything else. It doesn't matter what I am or what I believe. My belief either way is irrelevant in this discussion. I'm simply curious as to why most theists say that god DOES exist without question or doubt; that it is a FACT that god exists. So, if it is fact in there eyes that god exists, and all facts come from evidence, then provide the evidence that the existence of god is a truth and not simply a belief or opinion.

So, you can avoid the question all you want by attempting to turn the tables. But I will not respond to anyone's attempt to do so.

Simply answer the question and provide evidence. If you cannot, or if you choose to answer the question with a question, I will ignore your posts because they do not contribute to this discussion and is a waste of my time.
 
"BLIND FAITH" is not even a good answer, much less any kind of proof. It suggests an emotional condition, and that, too, can be explained by science.
 
420Joey said:
Boy.

1. It is clear you are "non-religious" therefore it doesent matter if your "athiest", "agnostic" or whatever label you conform to. The fact is : your attacking religious thinking because it cannot be proven under the scope of emperical evidence. Understand this: Religion and "the big bang" theory or whatever theory you believe in regarding our origin - fundamentally REQUIRES BLIND FAITH. Unless you understand things in there entirety or even partially don't make claims with such certainty.

I ask you to prove your assertion that god does not exist.

Evidence in its broadest sense includes everything that is used to determine or demonstrate the truth of an assertion

Can you do this?

NO
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Oh, and furthermore, I'm not attacking religious thinking. I'm tired of people equating blunt curiosity and query with attacking. Can one not ask questions in regard to religion? Just because you have blind faith and chose not to understand why you believe, it doesn't mean that others cant question you or whatever religious teachings you chose to uphold.

In regard to your words on "origin", who says I have to believe in anything? Sure, I believe evolution and tend to believe in the scientific views of the big bang theory. Why? Because it makes sense to me. However, I also acknowledge that when it comes down to ultimate evidence, that there aren't many facts available (...regarding the big bang theory; evolution has been proven). So, since I am aware that the big bang theory is just that, a theory, I don't acknowledge it as fact nor to I ever present it as such. And that is the key fundamental difference between my methodology and that if a Theist who labels God as a proven fact when, in fact, it is not.


So, in summary and for the sake of encouraging discussion, my inquiry can be rephrased as such: Why do (most) Theists state that the existence of God is a fact instead of simply acknowledging that it is simply an unproven belief and that God may OR may not exist?
 
MZ3Boy84 said:
So, in summary and for the sake of encouraging discussion, my inquiry can be rephrased as such: Why do (most) Theists state that the existence of God is a fact instead of simply acknowledging that it is simply an unproven belief and that God may OR may not exist?
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Maybe because some believers would then no longer believe, and then leave the church and the Church.
 
quinnsong said:
:spank:
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that looks like fun , can I be the spanker.

The ask is important you know .

How to prove or disprove an existence of and intelligence that governs the universe? Interesting .
Some might think the 11 occurrence might be , but others would debate that this is the red car phenomenon ( Buy red car and see more red cars )
If we could prove we where meant to be here would that be evidence ?
If we could prove even one person was meant to be here would that be evidence?
I think there is a creator , Every part of Me and ever thing else tells me there is . Is this self delusions ? Red car phenomenon gone wild ?
 
O.K. another Me story. Me and my step bro when we were in our early 20s we like to take the gamblers special to Reno and shoot craps and we would make it back to Sacramento just in time to go to work ( don't miss those days of wild never sleep crash hard times of party party party) So anyway we where sitting on a bench at Sacramento City college and it was just before a class in economics . He pulled out 5 quarters out of his pocket and said since it is to late to catch the gamblers special to Reno lets drive to Lake Tahoe and have some fun. I replied No lets just go to class and I can get a good nights sleep and feel like a normal human would feel . So as I was talking he was flipping the quarters up in the air like a kind of juggling move. Then he said " If I throw these 5 quarters on the ground and they all come up heads then we will go to Tahoe. So I said let Me examine the quarters first to make sure you don't have trick quarters as you could never be sure with a serious gambler ( if you saw that movie about the card counters , well he worked in one of the crews as a card counter team out of San Francisco) Anyway the quarters were fine and nothing out of the ordinary. So I took the bet . He trows the quarters about 2 feet in the air and they hit the concrete hard and bounce around until they come to there final stop and I was jerking out of my seat as they all came up friggen heads . So off we went thinking " we are going to win big" Lady luck is on our side tonight. Well we lost our weekly pay checks and as we came out of the Casino we see the truck sitting there thinking the attendant saw us coming and brought up our rig for us . Not so! we had a flat tire and it was sitting right where we left it when we went into the casino. Out of money and no spare tire. So we take to bumming money with our hands out to get enough to get the flat fixed . We needed about 5 dollars to make it happen . After about 2 hours of bumming we had nothing and it was evident I was not going to make it to work . Soon as I realized this 2 hookers I knew from Sacramento come strolling out of the casino looking like Angels from God . They got a real laugh and after much teasing they gave us the money to get the tire fixed. We cut the trips to Tahoe and Reno down to a minimum after that little lesson .
The moral :
It don't prove God exists to you , but it sure made Me wonder ?
 
It proves hookers, and that some have money, as well as that the bad odds of gambling can catch up.

Hope the hookers got what they wanted: to watch you re-tire from gambling.
 
No God:

Why? A Being cannot be first. Only ‘nothing’ can be first.

How? Positive/negative balance about zero.

What? Vacuum fluctuations emitting balanced particle pairs and photons, since nothing cannot stay as so, being perfectly unstable.

When, Then? Always.

Where? Everywhere.

Who? Life that evolves.


History/Future? Everything possible. Over and over again.


Beginning/End? No.


Bounds large/small? No.


What to do during life? Live.


After death? You are dead, your atoms get used for other things.


Don’t like all this? Make things up for glory and reward.
 
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