9/11 was an inside job

[billvon]

BTW, can you tell me how many innocent civilians the US has killed in the Vietnam, Iraq, and Afghanistan wars?

To use your own reasoning - I love how you get all indignant about Afghanis getting killed but can't look beyond your own nose to see how many innocent civilians _they_ killed. Maybe you don't know? Or just don't care?

See? You can blame everyone back to . . . whenever you like.

 

[Oystein]

To use your own reasoning - I love how you get all indignant about Afghanis getting killed but can't look beyond your own nose to see how many innocent civilians _they_ killed. Maybe you don't know? Or just don't care?

See? You can blame everyone back to . . . whenever you like.

OK, I'll use your reasoning: I don't give a damn about anybody getting killed no matter where. That's a much better attitude. I feel better already. Happy now professor? I've seen the light! I feel like a huge weight has been lifted from my shoulders. Thank you! Thank you!

 

[spidergoat]

I love people that get all indignant about Americans being killed but can't look beyond their noses at how many innocent civilians the US kills. Maybe they don't know? They can't be bothered to find out? Or they know and don't care?

Right, because all circumstances are morally equivalent...

 

[Oystein]

Right, because all circumstances are morally equivalent...

Why don't you go for a jog and just forget about all the killing. Forget . . . . Forget . . . .

 

[spidergoat]

Only if you forget the victims of the regimes we destroyed.

 

[Oystein]

Right, because all circumstances are morally equivalent...

The Pakastani parents of a girl that was killed because she was playing outside near the house that was destroyed by a US drone missile are not likely to see any moral differences between that and the September 11, 2001 atrocities in the US. Both are wrong.

BTW, I define "innocent civilian" a bit differently than most folks do. You're an innocent civilian if you are under the age of 18, basically a child still. Once you're 18 and can vote, you're part of this US machine and you now have left childhood behind to become an adult and integral part of how this nation behaves. You can vote, join the military, drink. Do all the things adults do. You are no longer innocent. You can take credit for the good things the US does and you have to take responsibility for the bad things it does.

 

[billvon]

OK, I'll use your reasoning: I don't give a damn about anybody getting killed no matter where.

Terrible assumption! You would do better to care about people getting killed on BOTH sides. They're still human beings even if you don't like their politics.

I've seen the light!

You haven't yet, but keep looking.

 

[Stryder]

You can vote, join the military, drink.

Actually that's incorrect, US drinking laws are age 21 and have been for some time.

Incidentally, The threads on one subject and your off-topic, so you might want to reroute your posts from now on.

 

[kx000]

Burn it all down? Start a new?

 

[billvon]

BTW, I define "innocent civilian" a bit differently than most folks do. You're an innocent civilian if you are under the age of 18, basically a child still. Once you're 18 and can vote, you're part of this US machine and you now have left childhood behind to become an adult and integral part of how this nation behaves. You can vote, join the military, drink. Do all the things adults do. You are no longer innocent. You can take credit for the good things the US does and you have to take responsibility for the bad things it does.

Ah, OK. So most of the "innocent civilians" the US killed in Iraq weren't innocent at all! They took responsibility for all the bad things Saddam Hussein did. And all those Vietnamese killed - also guilty by association. You sure you want to claim that?

 

[Oystein]

so you might want to reroute your posts from now on.

Yes, I will re-route them to the bit bucket.

 

[Oystein]

Ah, OK. So most of the "innocent civilians" the US killed in Iraq weren't innocent at all! They took responsibility for all the bad things Saddam Hussein did. And all those Vietnamese killed - also guilty by association. You sure you want to claim that?

I didn't mention other nations Professor Corey, I said the US. And yes, you and I as civilians are partly responsible for the deaths the US causes in other countries.

Now, new posts are being re-routed to the bit bucket.

 

[billvon]

I didn't mention other nations Professor Corey, I said the US.

I know. Do your standards of morality change when it's a country you don't like vs a country you like?

 

[Oystein]

I know. Do your standards of morality change when it's a country you don't like vs a country you like?

I never stated what countries I like or dislike. Now, don't go away mad. Just go away.

 

[quadraphonics]

Actually that's incorrect, US drinking laws are age 21 and have been for some time.

Well, there are several exceptions to that. The laws in question are all state laws, but there are parts of the USA that are not states. One major example is the military: if you are serving in the military and under 21, you can legally drink at bowling allies and the like on military bases. Likewise, the various US territories (Puerto Rico, Virgin Islands, Guam) have drinking ages of 18. They are not eligible for the Federal Highway Funds, which is the main mechanism that the Federal government uses to compel states to raise the drinking age to 21, and so they do not face any pressure to do so. Those areas are also free of various taxes (booze and cigarettes are dirt cheap in the US Virgin Islands, for example) and some also allow drinking and driving (again, USVI).

 

[quadraphonics]

The Pakastani parents of a girl that was killed because she was playing outside near the house that was destroyed by a US drone missile are not likely to see any moral differences between that and the September 11, 2001 atrocities in the US.

You have presented absolutely nothing in the way of evidence about what these Pakistanis think. You are just using pure weasel words here.

BTW, I define "innocent civilian" a bit differently than most folks do. You're an innocent civilian if you are under the age of 18, basically a child still. Once you're 18 and can vote, you're part of this US machine and you now have left childhood behind to become an adult and integral part of how this nation behaves. You can vote, join the military, drink. Do all the things adults do. You are no longer innocent. You can take credit for the good things the US does and you have to take responsibility for the bad things it does.

The fact that the adult civilian populace in the USA bears ultimate political responsibility for the government does not mean that it is legitimate to target them for retaliation or terror.

Moreover, international relations aren't particularly about "justice" or "fairness." The fact that Americans might "deserve" to suffer is neither here nor there - the important questions all have to do with what actions will result in useful progress and what actions will not. Punishing random Americans with violent terror might well feel gratifying to some parties, but all it achieves is more destruction and enmity. Most people learn some time in grade school that punching somebody in the face does not cause that person to empathize with you and consider how to productively address the differences that pissed you off in the first place. It just makes them angry and likely to punch you back.

 

[spidergoat]

The Pakastani parents of a girl that was killed because she was playing outside near the house that was destroyed by a US drone missile are not likely to see any moral differences between that and the September 11, 2001 atrocities in the US. Both are wrong.

BTW, I define "innocent civilian" a bit differently than most folks do. You're an innocent civilian if you are under the age of 18, basically a child still. Once you're 18 and can vote, you're part of this US machine and you now have left childhood behind to become an adult and integral part of how this nation behaves. You can vote, join the military, drink. Do all the things adults do. You are no longer innocent. You can take credit for the good things the US does and you have to take responsibility for the bad things it does.

So if you accidentally back over my child, killing her, and I take out a knife and cut your throat, there is no moral difference between our actions?

 

[billvon]

I never stated what countries I like or dislike.

You strongly implied that the citizens of the US bear some responsibility for what their government does, and thus 9/11 was partly justified. Then you change your moral viewpoint and claim that the citizens of countries like Iraq and Vietnam are innocent of any such associations, and thus when the US bombs them they are killing innocent people.

Now, don't go away mad. Just go away.

Sorry, am I asking questions that make you uncomfortable?

 

[kx000]

So if you accidentally back over my child, killing her, and I take out a knife and cut your throat, there is no moral difference between our actions?

Well one was intentional, one was accidental. Question is this, who, and why did you cut his throat? The accidental kill is surly immoral.

 

[The Esotericist]

A summary. The US support of Israel in all things and the lack of support of the Palestinians has lead to much grief in the Middle East and throughout the world. Now, back to September 11, 2001 as an inside job (snicker, snicker).

It's precisely because there wasn't enough public support of Israel that 911 happened. Although the CIA helped create Al Queda, which is a documented fact, Mossad has had, and currently has far better connections and control over the Muslim Brotherhood and the highest ranking operatives inside their ranks. They also have operatives in every capitol in the middle east and have helped to "push" every revolution in the Arab spring. Any they couldn't, they have had help from NATO. It's well known the CFR and the contributors that support them control the media. Wise up.

[video=youtube;GD_vwzjdTi4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GD_vwzjdTi4[/video]