9/11 was an inside job

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Ah, I get it. So you never read the report!
http://www.nist.gov/manuscript-publication-search.cfm?pub_id=909017
Chapt 6
6:14:1-3
6:4:1-3
6:6:1-4
Table 6-2
...it goes on...
Page 100 phase 2
Core Framing...

I downloaded the entire NCSTAR1 report and burned it to DVD years ago. I have searched it hundreds of times for various information. I have read every paragraph that included the phrases "center of mass" and "center of gravity".

If you are claiming that the NCSTAR1 report every discusses the "center of mass" of the tilted top portion of the south tower then provide the quote and tell us where it is.

I have never claimed to have read the entire NCSTAR1 report. The only person who has claimed that to me is Gregory Urich. Just because you can provide a link to it does not demonstrate that you know anything about it.

That report has pages and pages about what company manufactured what components and when it was delivered and so many trivial details it is ridiculous. What would it take to provide the 12 numbers specifying the quantity of each type of perimeter wall panels? TWO SENTENCES?!?!

One of the most incredible scenes form 9/11 was the top of the south tower tilted and surrounded by a cloud of dust. Wouldn't you think that to analyze that they would mention the center of mass or center of gravity? So I searched my DVD download of the report to see what turned up. Definitely not what I expected.

Center of mass is only used 4 times and the only real object it references is the airplane. It appears that they were extremely concerned about ceiling tiles and devoted an entire report to them. The only Interesting thing about it that I can tell is that the plane decelerated at 60 g's and came to a stop in 0.63 seconds. Suspended ceilings must be of major concern in the collapse of a 500.000 ton building.


NCSTAR 1-5D Ceilings.doc (offset 34)
http://wtc.nist.gov/NISTNCSTAR1-5D.pdf
Reaction of Ceiling Tile Systems to Shocks

center of mass page 77(*3)
Some of the airplane debris would not likely have traveled this far into the tower, while some parts of the plane and some of the fuel passed through the building and exited the far side. It was, therefore, assumed that the center of mass of the airplane penetrated slightly more than one-half of the tower’s depth. Assuming that the center of mass of the airplane is located at approximately the center of its length, the center of mass of the airplane would have traveled approximately 197 ft (60 m) between when the nose impacted the face of the tower and when the airplane remnants came to rest.

center of mass page 79
where, x p (t ) was the position of the center of mass of the airplane at time t. Given the initial and final velocities of the airplane and the differential displacement, described above, Equations 2–3 and 2–4 were solved to determine the acceleration parameters. The estimated peak acceleration of the airplane was found to be –62g (–610 m/s2), and the estimated duration of the impact was found to be 0.63 s. The resulting acceleration history is shown in Fig. 2–45.

An entire report about ceiling tiles but they can't tell us the number of wall panels. I don't comprehend what seem to be excuses for the NIST to me.

They don't use the term "center of gravity" in relation to any real physical object from 9/11. They only use it in explaining how they configured their simulation software in specifying columns for the simulator. I find this truly amazing for a 11,305 page report that took 3 years. I guess the centers of mass and gravity don't matter for the tons of material that were hurled hundreds of feet from the buildings.

NCSTAR 1-6.doc (offset 82)
http://wtc.nist.gov/NISTNCSTAR1-6.pdf
Structural Fire Response and Probable Collapse Sequence of the
World Trade Center Towers

center of gravity page 182
Shell elements were used to model the plates comprising the box column and the spandrels. Rigid elements connected the center of gravity of the column to its component plates and the spandrel at both the top and the bottom of the model. The column was simply supported in three directions at the bottom and simply supported in the horizontal directions at the top. Increments of axial displacement were applied at the top of the model.

center of gravity p186
In the ANSYS panel model, beam elements replaced shell elements to model the columns, while shell elements were used to model the spandrels, and beam elements attached the center of gravity of the columns to the mid-plane of its corresponding spandrel component at each shell element through the depth of the spandrel.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

NCSTAR 1-6C.doc (offset 48)
http://wtc.nist.gov/NISTNCSTAR1-6C.pdf
Component, Connection, and Subsystem Structural Analysis

center of gravity page 44
Four-node finite strain shell elements were used to model the plates of the column and the spandrels. Nodes of column plates at the top and the bottom of the model were rigidly tied to the center of gravity of the column cross section. The column was pinned at the bottom and fixed in the two horizontal directions at the top. Increments of axial displacement were applied at the top of the model at room temperature and 700 ̊C.

center of gravity page 216
The model also represented Column 151 from Floor 96 to Floor 97 since the dimensions, plate thicknesses, and material properties were identical to those of Column 151 from Floor 95 to 96. SHELL181 plate elements modeled the plates of columns and spandrels. CERIG rigid elements connected the center of gravity of the column to its component plates and to the spandrel at both the top and the bottom of the model. The column was pinned at the bottom and restrained in the two horizontal directions at the top. Axial displacement was applied incrementally at the top of the model.

center of gravity page 222
To capture the gravity load effects from upper floors (those above Floor 99), internal forces and moments at midheight of the columns between Floors 99 and 100 in the LERA SAP2000 global model, caused by dead plus 25 percent of design live load, were applied as loads at the tops of the corresponding columns in the exterior wall model at the [/b]center of gravity[/b] of the columns. To capture the gravity load effects from individual floors, floor loads were extracted from the LERA SAP2000 floor model and applied to each column.

center of gravity page 222
For columns that were modeled by BEAM189 elements, temperatures were provided for nodes at the center of gravity of the column, and their linear gradients transverse to the exterior wall were also provided. Gradients parallel to the wall were found to be negligible. Temperatures for SHELL181 elements were provided at each node. NIST did not always provide temperatures for the bolts at column splices. When bolt temperatures were provided, they matched temperatures at the nearest interior or exterior tips of columns.

All of the page numbers refer to the PDF pages, not the official NIST page numbers.

psik
 
I was referring to the details of the twisting- but if you're focused on the words, "Center of Gravity" and your lack of finding them, the issue is that it's a straw man.

You might search the entire report for Easter Bunny, too. You won't find that either. The problem is that you're trying to make it appear as though these guys missed something very important.

Nice try.

It's just a red herring and a straw man and totally irrelevant.
 
I was referring to the details of the twisting- but if you're focused on the words, "Center of Gravity" and your lack of finding them, the issue is that it's a straw man.

You might search the entire report for Easter Bunny, too. You won't find that either. The problem is that you're trying to make it appear as though these guys missed something very important.

Nice try.

It's just a red herring and a straw man and totally irrelevant.

Twisting of what? Where did you explain what you were talking about where?

Giving references gives the impression that you know something but if you don't talk about what is in those references then how is anyone supposed to know what you are claiming. To me it looks like you are just playing the same game that you are accusing Miller of playing.

Word searches do not equate to reading.

I was obviously talking about the tilted top portion of the south tower. The NIST admits it tilted 22 degrees. So the "center of gravity" had to be important. Now how could I know what they were talking about at any particular instance of "center of gravity" or "center of mass" without reading it. So anyone saying I didn't read it is talking bullsh!t.

And I didn't just look up those "center of gravity" references. Those are from a file dated May 2008.

psik
 
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This tactic is leading with a red herring.
As Balerion already pointed out- reading the material comes into play.

Consider that while you may take something for granted in your profession, another person wouldn't necessarily understand that which you take for granted. You may not consider it would not be easily understood considering how simple it is to you.
Those that wrote the report and conducted the studies are fully well aware of the Weight Involved. The MASSIVE weight involved.
Center of Mass becomes a non-issue, because while it's technically relevant, a full study of it would be as absurd as running a full study of F=ma. A full fledged study of the buildings Center of Mass would have no effect on the report. It would be a complete waste of time, though
psikeyhackr is jumping through hoops trying to convince people that it's crucial.

You claim
The NIST admits it tilted 22 degrees. So the "center of gravity" had to be important.
The wording here is particular and your tactic rather plain.
You accept that your claim, "that Center of Mass had to be important" must be true.
You then gesticulate at NIST, basing further assumptions on your claim, such as that they "missed something important." This suggests either incompetence on their part or a cover up.
That's a lot of conclusions to jump to based on your primary assumption.

So...why isn't Center of Mass Important?
Well it IS important... 'what?' It gets better- the study was done. It simply wasn't done as it's Own Individual report called, "Center of Mass."
Reading the report shows this.
Searching for a word doesn't.

Ok, take this one a step at a time.

The purpose of the NIST study was not to pander to a lot of wild speculations. It was only to establish the most plausible explanation for the events given the evidence. The evidence includes all the materials from the rubble, videos, eyewitness accounts and reports. The rubble was instrumental in metallurgical studies and analysis.
The report only needed to show that the official story was totally plausible.
This is because any effort would be an ongoing process as this thread demonstrates, with millions of taxpayer dollars going into arguing with a crazy person. It's not worth it.

The mass of each floor and the combined mass of all the floors make a demand for a Center Of Gravity or Mass study superfluous and an unreasonable demand. The fire tests for the 700-1000 degree burn on the metal supports demonstrated that they sagged in the middle. There was only One Direction the massive gravity could go in- Down.
Some unknown or magical force would have been needed to explain any other direction and this is something the NIST engineers took for granted. It simply could not have occurred to them that someone on the internet would ask such an absurd thing for them to prove wrong. Again, their purpose was not to pander to wild speculations.

The twisting of buckling support columns, well established in the referenced material demonstrates the Point Of Failure. This resulted in a Tilt. Once the tilt initiated- weight and gravity took over, collapsing the standing supports immediately below in a train wreck effect.
The heat damage caused against the horizontal supports demonstrated the Point Of Failure for the collapsing floors.
Again- there was only one direction this mass (millions and millions of pounds) could go in- Down.

psikeyhackr's odd demands of a Center Of Gravity Study seem to have required some unknown and unknowable extreme force (When I say extreme, I mean extreme. Far more force than conventional explosives could puff out) to shift that massive weight off center.
But again, this is what I mean when I say it was studied and taken for granted- Where the mass was shifting was established in all the other studies.

A specific and isolate study called Center of Mass would have been entirely redundant and absurd- and it would not have pleased psikeyhackr one bit.
He'd find some other thing to use as a red herring.
 
This tactic is leading with a red herring.
As Balerion already pointed out- reading the material comes into play.

Consider that while you may take something for granted in your profession, another person wouldn't necessarily understand that which you take for granted. You may not consider it would not be easily understood considering how simple it is to you.
Those that wrote the report and conducted the studies are fully well aware of the Weight Involved. The MASSIVE weight involved.
Center of Mass becomes a non-issue, because while it's technically relevant, a full study of it would be as absurd as running a full study of F=ma. A full fledged study of the buildings Center of Mass would have no effect on the report. It would be a complete waste of time, though
psikeyhackr is jumping through hoops trying to convince people that it's crucial.

You claim
The wording here is particular and your tactic rather plain.
You accept that your claim, "that Center of Mass had to be important" must be true.
You then gesticulate at NIST, basing further assumptions on your claim, such as that they "missed something important." This suggests either incompetence on their part or a cover up.
That's a lot of conclusions to jump to based on your primary assumption.

So...why isn't Center of Mass Important?
Well it IS important... 'what?' It gets better- the study was done. It simply wasn't done as it's Own Individual report called, "Center of Mass."
Reading the report shows this.
Searching for a word doesn't.

Ok, take this one a step at a time.

The purpose of the NIST study was not to pander to a lot of wild speculations. It was only to establish the most plausible explanation for the events given the evidence. The evidence includes all the materials from the rubble, videos, eyewitness accounts and reports. The rubble was instrumental in metallurgical studies and analysis.
The report only needed to show that the official story was totally plausible.
This is because any effort would be an ongoing process as this thread demonstrates, with millions of taxpayer dollars going into arguing with a crazy person. It's not worth it.

The mass of each floor and the combined mass of all the floors make a demand for a Center Of Gravity or Mass study superfluous and an unreasonable demand. The fire tests for the 700-1000 degree burn on the metal supports demonstrated that they sagged in the middle. There was only One Direction the massive gravity could go in- Down.
Some unknown or magical force would have been needed to explain any other direction and this is something the NIST engineers took for granted. It simply could not have occurred to them that someone on the internet would ask such an absurd thing for them to prove wrong. Again, their purpose was not to pander to wild speculations.

The twisting of buckling support columns, well established in the referenced material demonstrates the Point Of Failure. This resulted in a Tilt. Once the tilt initiated- weight and gravity took over, collapsing the standing supports immediately below in a train wreck effect.
The heat damage caused against the horizontal supports demonstrated the Point Of Failure for the collapsing floors.
Again- there was only one direction this mass (millions and millions of pounds) could go in- Down.

psikeyhackr's odd demands of a Center Of Gravity Study seem to have required some unknown and unknowable extreme force (When I say extreme, I mean extreme. Far more force than conventional explosives could puff out) to shift that massive weight off center.
But again, this is what I mean when I say it was studied and taken for granted- Where the mass was shifting was established in all the other studies.

A specific and isolate study called Center of Mass would have been entirely redundant and absurd- and it would not have pleased psikeyhackr one bit.
He'd find some other thing to use as a red herring.

As much as I dislike you, this is the best debunking of psi's incessant crying over the Center of Mass study (or lack thereof) I've read on this forum. Grumpy did a great job exposing him as a clueless layman when it comes to physics, but failed to articulate exactly why he's wrong in wanting that particular study done. You've remedied that issue.
 
As much as I dislike you, this is the best debunking of psi's incessant crying over the Center of Mass study (or lack thereof) I've read on this forum. Grumpy did a great job exposing him as a clueless layman when it comes to physics, but failed to articulate exactly why he's wrong in wanting that particular study done. You've remedied that issue.

I hadn't read back in the thread. So anything before I actively jumped in is history I'm unaware of- at the moment, at least.
Grumpy took this on, eh?

Ok, that's a hard act to follow.
 
I hadn't read back in the thread. So anything before I actively jumped in is history I'm unaware of- at the moment, at least.
Grumpy took this on, eh?

Ok, that's a hard act to follow.

He didn't address the specifics of the center of mass, nor did he explain why exactly it's a red herring. You both did great, but your approach was more compete, I think. But even if he did, who cares? If psi is going to repeat his schtick, he can put up with people repeatedly telling him why he's wrong. The damn thread is 17 pages long, anyway.
 
He didn't address the specifics of the center of mass, nor did he explain why exactly it's a red herring. You both did great, but your approach was more compete, I think. But even if he did, who cares? If psi is going to repeat his schtick, he can put up with people repeatedly telling him why he's wrong. The damn thread is 17 pages long, anyway.

Probably didn't occur to him to do so. It went right over my head the first time psikeyhackr brought it up.

Which is the other thing:
If either side can establish the most plausible explanation- that is all that is needed.
Because I cannot prove that something didn't happen. I cannot even prove that something did happen- I can only provide strong and compelling evidence that it did.
A person that wanted to know the truth would do something particular. Something more than just asking questions or examining claims and evidence.
He would discriminate between reasonable doubt and proofs.
A person that simply wants the truth understands that it may not be what he expected to hear.

The "Truthers' often betray that when they use red herrings.
When they ignore evidence.
When they fail to grasp 'reasonable doubt.'
Because if all they really wanted was the truth, they would have no need to invent wild hypothesis or red herrings in order to validate their preconceived condition. Once a question was satisfactorily answered, they would accept it.

That psikeyhackr does not do this is very telling as to his motive.

Anyway, I'll wait to continue dissecting that video as best I can until psikeyhackr has offered a rebuttal to these latest posts.
 
Yup, nicely done, Neverfly. As a layman, I followed where you were going.
 
This tactic is leading with a red herring.
As Balerion already pointed out- reading the material comes into play.

Consider that while you may take something for granted in your profession, another person wouldn't necessarily understand that which you take for granted. You may not consider it would not be easily understood considering how simple it is to you.
Those that wrote the report and conducted the studies are fully well aware of the Weight Involved. The MASSIVE weight involved.
Center of Mass becomes a non-issue, because while it's technically relevant, a full study of it would be as absurd as running a full study of F=ma. A full fledged study of the buildings Center of Mass would have no effect on the report. It would be a complete waste of time, though
psikeyhackr is jumping through hoops trying to convince people that it's crucial.

So you can make something up and say that it is true and therefore it must be.

The NIST report does not even specify the total amount of concrete in the towers much less the distribution s of steel and concrete down the towers.

But in three places they admit that they need to know the distribution of weight down the building to analyse the motion due to the impacts.

2.4.3 Single Impulse Excitations

Accurate estimation of the tower’s motion during the airplane impact required detailed knowledge of the geometry, weight distribution, and impact velocity of the aircraft, as well as detailed knowledge of the geometry, weight distribution, and structural strength of the tower. At the time of this test series (fall 2003), much of this information was unknown, and the impact motion could only be roughly estimated. To allow this estimate to be made quickly, many simplifying assumptions were made regarding the nature of the impact.
http://wtc.nist.gov/NISTNCSTAR1-5D.pdf pdf page 74

You keep claiming things as though the NIST report is completely competent but make excuses for them not pointing out the obvious.

TRUST YOUR DESIGNATED EXPERTS!

psik
 
So you can make something up and say that it is true and therefore it must be.
Hardly. Tactic of 'projecting' noted.

The NIST report does not even specify the total amount of concrete in the towers much less the distribution s of steel and concrete down the towers.
Yes, it does. Now, it doesn't give an exact figure of, for example, 1,857,558,850 bags (50lb bags) of concrete used.
This is, again, a red herring tactic because these figures are 'taken for granted.'
The NIST report started, right off the bat, with the blueprints, building codes and design spec, architects models- etc.
Since all this information is contained within those, they again avoided that redundancy and given that you acknowledged that the report is extremely long, we can all see why redundancy was avoided whenever possible.

That you did exactly as I said above, found another red herring to bemoan and a rather poor one at that demonstrates your intent.

This was your rebuttal, I'll conclude it as such and in a while, get back to what I told another member I would make my own best effort to do and I welcome other members help in doing so.

But in three places they admit that they need to know the distribution of weight down the building to analyse the motion due to the impacts.


http://wtc.nist.gov/NISTNCSTAR1-5D.pdf pdf page 74
Attachment shows page 74 of NIST report. Not quite what you just said it was, was it?

But let's humor you anyway...:
Let's assume that what you claimed was somewhat accurate. That the NIST report says that some information was needed but lacking. You say they came right out on their own and said this.
This doesn't work in your favor at all.
It would demonstrate accountability, determination to stay true to facts and honesty.

This is the hand you want to play here?
23.gif


Moving along a little more productively now...
 
Neverfly

I hadn't read back in the thread. So anything before I actively jumped in is history I'm unaware of- at the moment, at least.
Grumpy took this on, eh?

Ok, that's a hard act to follow.

I think your explanation was much more cogent than mine(page 14 post 268 et al). A physicist studying whether the center of gravity obeyed the laws of Nature is like a biologist studying whether fish get wet, it's a useless waste of time as it goes without saying that they do(and on 911, they did). Psi is hung up on the fact that the NIST reports were written for those who understand(and need not further discuss)how physical objects behave, the constraints the laws of Nature put upon those behaviors and the complex interconnection of those material properties in complex structures, they did not waste time on uselessly explaining the fundamentals of Physics that psi not only does not understand but actively resists learning anything about because of his religious belief in the Troother narrative. His attitude is "If it doesn't fit in with my preconceived conclusions, it must be a conspiracy."

I commend you for your efforts, though I doubt psi will be affected this time either. But we don't post to convince the unconvincable(if we're honest with ourselves), we post for those who may have questions they are interested in learning something about. Psi may not appreciate your efforts, but those interested in learning something(including moi)do.

Grumpy:cool:
 
Hardly. Tactic of 'projecting' noted.

Yes, it does. Now, it doesn't give an exact figure of, for example, 1,857,558,850 bags (50lb bags) of concrete used.
This is, again, a red herring tactic because these figures are 'taken for granted.'

It doesn't give ANY figure. And then you have the nerve to talk about Red Herrings. LOL

They say 200,000 tons of steel and documentation from before 9/11 that has that number for the steel says 425,000 cubic yards of concrete. But then the NIST can't come up with any number but that is OK since you say it can be "taken for granted".

The estimated construction cost in the early 60s was around $350,000,000. But they just took the concrete for granted when dealing with that much money. YEAH RIGHT!

psik
 
It doesn't give ANY figure. And then you have the nerve to talk about Red Herrings. LOL

They say 200,000 tons of steel and documentation from before 9/11 that has that number for the steel says 425,000 cubic yards of concrete. But then the NIST can't come up with any number but that is OK since you say it can be "taken for granted".

The estimated construction cost in the early 60s was around $350,000,000. But they just took the concrete for granted when dealing with that much money. YEAH RIGHT!

psik

Taken for granted means that it's understood that the design specs and blueprints contain the figures, not that the figures are entirely unknown and just accepted in some magical way as you're trying to imply here.

This is why you're very difficult to take seriously.

psikeyhackr, you don't exist until such time as I decide that you do.
Moving on to the Video dissection...
 
Taken for granted means that it's understood that the design specs and blueprints contain the figures, not that the figures are entirely unknown and just accepted in some magical way as you're trying to imply here.

This is why you're very difficult to take seriously.

psikeyhackr, you don't exist until such time as I decide that you do.
Moving on to the Video dissection...

I am not saying they are unknown by anyone. I am only saying they are not publicly available to provide convincing evidence that an impact by an airliner weighing less than 200 tons with 34 tons of jet fuel could totally destroy a building over 400,000 tons. We are not provided with the distributions of steel and concrete down the building so we can understand how it held itself up. But then not too many physicists have been asking about that information for the last 11 years.

That is a curious point by itself.

But regardless of the data on the building why can't you or anyone else build a physical model that can be collapsed by its top 15% or less? Why hasn't any engineering school given us such a demonstration?

psik
 
Continuing the video- I've watched for about thirty minutes so far and all I've seen is a repetitive dialogue about "WTC 7 must be a controlled demolition because it looks like one."
Yes and a drag queen must be a woman because she looks like one.

The same tactics are being used in this portion that I've been watching so I won't bother to rehash what I said above in regards to this.
Let's examine WTC 7.

World Trade Center building 7 was not struck by any airplane.

WTC 7 was struck by significant debris.

WTC 7 had an unusual occurrence in building fires: Under normal circumstances, a building fire is immediately responded to and fire suppression systems kick on. However, since WTC 1&2 had been hit prior to this, were burning, both buildings had civilians trapped within needing rescue-- all reserves were taxed. WTC 7 had little water pressure for its fire suppression systems and fire fighters on the ground were stretched thin.

PHD's, doctorates are making the claim that it looks like a controlled demolition. Their degrees, experience and knowledge in the field carries weight and merit.

In spite of this, not once during the video did any of these doctors give a plausible explanation for their claim that WTC7 must be a controlled demolition other than that it looked like one.
This is a bit absurd because a collapsing building of such size will, by principle, look like a controlled demolition.

Let's take a closer look: Did it look like a controlled demolition?
There were no explosions prior to collapse. None.
The building was visibly bulged, creaking and many people, including fire chief Nigro, believed that the building was at imminent risk of collapsing. He pulled his crew out before the building came down and thanks to the warning signs of a structurally unsound building- there were no causalities of WTC7's collapse.
Unlike most recorded building fires, there was an uncontrolled burn within the building which had gone on for 7 hours or so. Fire suppression systems had minimal response. Just as in the case of WTC 1 & 2, intense heat and flames had compromised the structure of the building.
That alone, was not fully enough.
Eventually, a girder on Floor 13 lost its connection to a critical column, Column 79, that provided support for the long floor spans on the east side of the building (see Diagram 1). The displaced girder and other local fire-induced damage caused Floor 13 to collapse, beginning a cascade of floor failures down to the 5th floor. Many of these floors had already been at least partially weakened by the fires in the vicinity of Column 79. This collapse of floors left Column 79 insufficiently supported in the east-west direction over nine stories.
WTC7diagramForFAQs_1.gif


The massive weight coming down would have been more than enough to collapse the structure below. That's a bit like hitting a nail set upright on a stone with a 12 lb sledge hammer full force- it WILL fold upon itself. While sound as columns on a daily basis, there is only so much striking force anything can handle. Given the location of column 79, a sequential catastrophic failure along that line of the building would show bulging and during collapse, the middle would sink lower than the outer structure which was significantly less compromised.
Which is exactly what is seen happening in every WTC 7 coverage video.
Let's conclude, given the strong evidence; It's just as plausible that the events outlined above led to the collapse of WTC 7 as the idea that controlled demolition is.
What is required to support demolition? The absurd monkey-brained antics of trying to plant the explosives in the building in order to bring it down. When, exactly, did this happen, with the massive quantities of explosives needed and without being seen?
Considering the absurdity here and the plausibility of the heavily damaged building losing structural support, combined with the lack of explosions, bulging of the building so noticeably that experts on site gauged the building as doomed to fall AND the video matching the collapse following catastrophic failure of a critical column perfectly- I think we can call "inside Job" busted.
http://www.nist.gov/manuscript-publication-search.cfm?pub_id=861610

My conclusion on the interviews of phd's commentary:
They are correct. It does look a lot like a controlled demolition. They are absolutely right in describing how it looks. However, looking like something doesn't make it into that something. It just means they look a lot alike and in this case- that is not surprising in the least that they would.
I'm sure these guys are very smart. I'm sure they are very good at designing buildings and architecture. But that doesn't mean they had any knowledge to contribute to the conspiracy theory- in fact, none provided any other than that it looked similar to a controlled demolition.
None gave any explanation as to how the building should have looked coming down or even, if it could look differently coming down. This is because it would look the much the same at such a size.

Let's re-introduce psikeyboy back into the Universe:

That is a curious point by itself.
It is publicly available and the only curious point is your perseverance to straw men.
You deliberately leave blank critical areas of information in your presentation in order to give a slant to the proposed conclusion. Should you provide that critical information- your conclusion would not hold. Which is exactly why you're not a truther, but a douche with an agenda to push.
http://wtcdata.nist.gov/index2.htm
http://www.nist.gov/manuscript-publication-search.cfm?pub_id=909241
Any missing documents? Feel free to simply ask for them:
http://www.nist.gov/director/foia/
But regardless of the data on the building why can't you or anyone else build a physical model that can be collapsed by its top 15% or less? Why hasn't any engineering school given us such a demonstration?

psik
Again, you neglected key information here, such as structural integrity being compromised heavily, and the massive weight of the collapsing floors hammering down on everything below it.
NIST did model exactly that. Granted, the model was a computer simulation, not a physical model. This is better because the simulation can duplicate to high accuracy the actual physical factors involved whereas a small physical model would be very impractical given the behavior of girders and columns at specific lengths, fire damage, and the extremely massive weight involved. In order to build a physical model that could even come close to approximating the weight involved in WTC 1&2, the model itself would have to be over 8 stories tall. It would not even count as a miniature building at that point. Although you still wouldn't be able to fit in the front door.
 
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(page 14 post 268 et al). Psi is hung up on the fact that the NIST reports were written for those who understand(and need not further discuss)how physical objects behave, the constraints the laws of Nature put upon those behaviors and the complex interconnection of those material properties in complex structures,
From that post number 268:
He's trying to treat the buildings as solid, uniform masses so it will fit into a simple equation that he thinks represents the reactions of a complex structure with many interacting subsystems, each of which have consequences to the result.
Must be a Micheal Bay fan.
It does give some perspective as to the flaw in his reasoning. He's thinking that a building that tilted 22 degrees should tip over on it's side, I would guess.
Needless to say that's complete nonsense.
But we don't post to convince the unconvincable(if we're honest with ourselves), we post for those who may have questions they are interested in learning something about. Psi may not appreciate your efforts, but those interested in learning something(including moi)do.
People like psikeyhackr give us the impetus to reach out to the unknown strangers sitting on fences out there. Those that google up a thought and stumble on pages like these. I do wonder, on occasion, how many silent lurkers will read a post here and be convinced or learn something and we never knew it happened.
I like to pretend that it happens often.
 
Your complex models of actual girder cross-sections bear no resemblance to real-life models constructed of washers and cigarette roll paper.

I don't know how denialists like you can live with yourself. Except via your CIA contract money.
 
Your complex models of actual girder cross-sections bear no resemblance to real-life models constructed of washers and cigarette roll paper.

I don't know how denialists like you can live with yourself. Except via your CIA contract money.

Ditto, says me.

Ya'll cant mess with psi's fisiks.
 
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