9/11 Conspiracy Thread (There can be only one!)

[shaman_]

From whatreallyhappened.com:

Not everyone agrees with Manning’s criticism.
http://www.911myths.com/html/fire_engineering_letter.html


There may have been criticisms of the investigation but the steel was investigated. It wasn’t spirited away and it wasn’t hidden. Experts looked at it and found nothing suspicious.

Alright, I'll let this one go for now.

They misrepresent the physics of fires. 911research.wtc7.net points out their flaw:

http://911research.wtc7.net/essays/gopm/index.html

Who is misrepresenting the physics?

http://www.debunking911.com/moltensteel.htm

At the bottom.
“
So I went to the website of Corus Construction Co, and found a section in their Research area that said this about the difference in temperatures between steel and atmosphere:

"With regard to steel temperatures, these depend upon the size of the member but for typical unprotected beams and columns these would lag behind the compartment temperatures by around 100°C to 200°C."

So the tests that the conspiracy theorist cited only had atmospheric temperatures ranging around 800-900 degrees, while the Popular Mechanics article (and NIST report) mentions that pockets of the World Trade Center reached 1800 degrees. This would put the steel temperature in those locations at around 1600-1700 degrees, which is far above the 1100 degree mark that steel loses 50% of its structural integrity.

I just thought it was a pretty striking example of dishonesty….”

Your sources are always poorly researched, dishonest or both.

I'll see if I can get it clarified.

Again, I'll attempt to get answers here.

If fires were the only things involved, what seems clear is that the steel wouldn't have even softened.

What? Bad science aside, you posted a link to a story of a bridge that collapsed after a gas tanker crashed.

ABOLHASSAN ASTANEH, University of California, Berkeley " In both of them, basically, the fire was the reason why steel got soft and weak and collapsed.”

Take your blinkers off and think about what you are saying Scott. If the steel could be softened there and the Madrid Tower then surely it's possible that it could be softened by the fires on 9/11.

Ok. Perhaps he didn't really look into the story. Or perhaps he was promised some sweet deals like Van Romero has gotten after 9/11.

Typical conspiracy theorist. When presented with evidence from an expert you instantly claim that he was paid off. If you do some searching on Abolhassan Astaneh you will see that he even had of criticisms of the investigation, although they were minor. He is far more qualified than Jones to speak on these matters and he found no evidence for explosives.

 

[Ganymede]

I see the spooks are still at it. Losers.

 

[KennyJC]

I see the spooks are still at it. Losers.

I think the real losers are the truthers. Not only have they failed to convince historians, demolition experts, civil engineers etc. but their membership is in sharp decline.

You know how many truthers turned out at their most important rally of the year? 150.

As for being a spook... I really wish I was. Being a secret agent sounds a little more glamorous than my day job.

 

[Ganymede]

Ok, after doing a little research, I have once again affirmed that there is lots of statements that there was molten steel:
http://georgewashington.blogspot.com/2005/12/why-was-there-molten-metal-under.html

And as to shaman's comment about bent steel. Why should it matter why some steel was bent? The real issue should be why the towers collapsed. And ofcourse bent steel doesn't make a tower collapse, let alone get it to collapse in its own footprint at about freefall speed. But it seems the argument is that bent steel = towers collapsing at free fall speed .

It seems this whole bent steel thing is really just distracting us from the point. I recently read a post of mine, hammering home the most important points; that is, the arguments used by NIST to justify that the tower collapsed due to fire and its counter. I believe that Steven Jones says it well. I've said it before but I don't want to look through the mighty tangle, so I'll just quote Steven Jones article once more:


He then offers a far more plausible cause of the WTC collapses:


http://physics911.net/stevenjones

Keep giving them hell Scott. Make these Spooks earn their paycheck.

 

[KennyJC]

Make these Spooks earn their paycheck.

That is enough to prove that you are a stupid moron.

 

[Ganymede]

Yeah: why would they use a missile? Because it would be incongrous with the planes that hit the Towers? It never fails to make me smile how Troofers disown the really crazy Troofers who claim it was missiles and holograms at the Towers, and then turn around and claim the Pentagon hit was a missile.

Provide the video or STFU, you're now on the Clock. You can't because it doesn't it exist. That's all the proof I need.

 

[KennyJC]

Provide the video or STFU, you're now on the Clock. You can't because it doesn't it exist. That's all the proof I need.

You'd make a bad detective if you had to see pictures of a crime taking place in order to solve it.

 

[Ganymede]

I will continue discussion from another board, because KennyJC was temporarily suspended from that board

It's a total waste debating him, I see It didn't take them long to realize what a dishonest debater that guy really is. The best thing to do is ignore him. He's not here to have an honest discussion, he's only here to push the Governments unprovavble version of the facts.. We're having a great debate on Abovetopsecret.com, and they don't allow name calling there, a great place for adults to have a discussion.

 

[KennyJC]

It's a total waste debating him, I see It didn't take them long to realize what a dishonest debater that guy really is. The best thing to do is ignore him. He's not here to have an honest discussion, he's only here to push the Governments unprovavble version of the facts.. We're having a great debate on Abovetopsecret.com, and they don't allow name calling there, a great place for adults to have a discussion.

I'm a dishonest debater? LOL! You're the one that shows pictures of planes that have crashed at low speed and think it's valid to compare it to a plane that has nose dived into the ground approaching the speed of sound.

I know you are reading everything I'm saying even though you have me on "ignore".

 

[Ganymede]

Not everyone agrees with Manning’s criticism.
http://www.911myths.com/html/fire_engineering_letter.html




http://www.debunking911.com/moltensteel.htm

Those 2 sites have been exposed as being disinformation sites sponsered by intellence assets whitin the US.

 

[KennyJC]

Those 2 sites have been exposed as being disinformation sites sponsered by intellence assets whitin the US.

I'd sure like to see evidence for this. So far your claims of everybody disagreeing with you being government agents is making you look downright silly.

 

[Ganymede]

You are much smarter than most of the conspiracy nutters, but this line is pure, unadulterated stupidity.

A ruddy great aircraft, presumably full of people (or if you prefer a low flying guided missile) has just crashed into the HQ of the armed forces of the world's only superpower. There is noise, there are flames and explosions, there is smoke, people are running everywhere. Sirens are going off. Car alarms have been triggered.

Amidst all of this you are saying to yourself, "I wonder what happened to the other lamp posts?" Get real.

Can you share with me what evidence you have that proves that Khalid SHeik Muhammad was responsible for 911 and not Bin Laden. It's been going on 3 weeks now. And you still haven't showed me any evidence that links KSM to 911. Nor has the F.B.I charged him with the crime.

 

[Ganymede]

Scott3x,

I have heard that the "no plane at the pentagon" theory was introduced as a way to sidetrack 911-truthers and keep them diverted from more obvious problems with the official story.

Likewise, the arguments that there were no planes at the WTC (some say it was done with special effects at the news stations, etc). This disinformation technique is called "poisoning the well". Mixing bad theories in with the good ones so as to reduce the credibility of all of the theories taken together as a whole.

You've got a lot of good evidence on your side without the missile theory, but I understand that it is always tempting to add one more log to the fire, so to speak.

Can you please share with us the Video of the Plane hitting the Pentagon? You didn't see it, so how can you push a theory that you have no concrete proof of.

 

[Ganymede]

So why not simply delete all the stupid conspiracy posts and permaban the idiot conspiracy theorists?

Sorry, but this isn't communist China. Stryder tried to silence any dicussion about this topic by moving it to this forum. But it completely backfired, and now he's totally frustrated that he can't surpress others from having an open and civil discussion. The only ones who're calling other deragatory names are the pro-goverment posters.

 

[Ganymede]

Scott, could you just confirm you don't work in the oil industry. I just want to avoid the risk of hiring you by accident. We don't like to employ people who are unaware of how to carry out a thorough examination of evidence.

African oil at issue

Daily oil production by the Gulf of Guinea states—Nigeria, Congo, Gabon, Cameroon and Equatorial Guinea—is over 4.5 million barrels. The total is more than Iran, Saudi Arabia or Venezuela produces individually.

The top two U.S. oil companies, Chevron Texaco and Exxon Mobil, plan to invest $70 billion in oil production over the next 5 to 10 years in the Gulf of Guinea. The states in this region already provide 16 percent of the United States’ oil supply. The amount is expected to rise to 25 percent by 2015.

Controlling as many oil sources as possible is one of the U.S. government’s primary objectives worldwide. It wants to hold a strategic lock on oil markets so that it can control the flow of oil and other essential resources to countries like China and India, and to imperialist rivals in Europe and Japan. The U.S. government’s new moves and "threat" assessments in Africa are largely predicated on prevailing over its rivals.

http://www.pslweb.org/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id=5687&news_iv_ctrl=0

 

[Ganymede]

Ganymede, try not to make yourself look keven more foolish. My starting point was to have no opinion on the cause(s) of 911. After reviewing the data, then I reached my conclusion. That is how it works. You don't maintain a belief in something that is contrary to the evidence. You move on.
Do you also write in English?

Do you belive that KSM is responsible for 911 and no OBL? I would like to see what evidence you reviewed that led you to that conclusion.

 

[Ganymede]

Also, here' another way to point out the spooks on this forum.

1) 90% of their time is spent on debating people who they claim are crazy.

2) They always put in their profiles that they're from the UK or Australia, or some other shithole of a continent to masquerade thier true identities.

 

[shaman_]

I have another identity?

Cool

 

[GeoffP]

I see the spooks are still at it. Losers.

Keep giving them hell Scott. Make these Spooks earn their paycheck.

These kind of comments make me laugh out loud. "You're too good, you know the real answers to all my stupid points. You must be...a government agent!" What an idiot.

Provide the video or STFU, you're now on the Clock. You can't because it doesn't it exist. That's all the proof I need.

Bitch, it's the parking cam vid. The same fucking video that the Troofers used to like to point to and say "that couldn't be a plane!" which clearly fucking is. I repeat: what an idiot. "It's a missile!" Yeah, a two-hundred foot missile. Sure. Mocked up to look like an airplane? Idiot.

Those 2 sites have been exposed as being disinformation sites sponsered by intellence assets whitin the US.

Provide the evidence or STFU.

Also, here' another way to point out the spooks on this forum.

1) 90% of their time is spent on debating people who they claim are crazy.

2) They always put in their profiles that they're from the UK or Australia, or some other shithole of a continent to masquerade thier true identities.

You. Are. An. Idiot.

I'm from the UK and Canada, living in the States. Oh, and by the way: don't call the UK a shithole, you useless little fuck. It's the funniest fucking thing when you yell "You're not from those places!" and then insult those places to piss us off. STFU, little boy.

Done.

 

[GeoffP]

I have another identity?

Cool

You are a gov'mint agent. Ganymede says so!